TelkomInternet confirms new ADSL capping policy

Is Telkom's relaxed capping policy anti-competitive?

  • Yes

    Votes: 102 84.3%

  • No

    Votes: 10 8.3%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 9 7.4%
  • Total voters
    121
  • Poll closed .
allyoucaneat said:
You can't have a monopoly and competitors in the same market.
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100% right . But the only paty who can break it is the givernment.
If you'll look at monopolistic behaviour aroud the world it is the same thing as Telkom. If the US government hasn't broke up ATT at a time prices in US would not have been different then S.A.
WE ARE GOING AGAIN TO THE SAME STORY. Don't expect from a monopoly to behave like non monopoly it is not in their nature.
 
Uncompetitive behaviour is when a company uses its unique position to offer a product that a competitor is not able to match and therefore the competitor loses clients. In this instance Telkom is using and has used its unique position of being the sole supplier of adsl lines to attract customers to its isp offerings. As a result they currently have the largest userbase of low bandwidth customers.
This is what allows them to offer higher usage at no cost and is in my mind very uncompetitive.
 
Byrd said:
The cap is still at 3Gb for the 3Gb accounts MAD. you will get at least 3 Gb. What Telkom is doing is redistributing bandwidth that is not being used but has been paid for.
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Yes I do realise this.

What I'm saying is that they can offer a lower price for ONLY 3GB rather than more than 3GB for the normal price.
 
What a load of lies and bull****. The bandwidth cant get used up at the begining of the month so that there's nothing left by the end! The same bandwidth is there all the time! Get a clue people! The bandwidth that one user does not use is not sitting in a bucket somewhere waiting to be re-distributed to someone else!
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As you yourself has said - value based pricing. This is used to ensure that service levels are high. Profiling of average usage is used in order to PREDICT usage throughout the month.

If a certain amount of cars can fit on the road today then the same amount can be there tomorrow. The road doesnt get used up and recharged every month!
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Data is not cars. It is packetized :D Data only becomes cars when you talk about teleportation.
 
The problem would not exist if Telkom was not able to wholesale to ISPs and compete with the same ISPs in the retail space.

Lets work out the cost a 3GB Telkom account:
3GB ADSL wholesale + 2 email accounts + analogue dialup account + 2 concurrent sessions + over runs + 10215 telephone support + invoice print + postage + advertising + bill insert + T-Zone hotspots (in Funny Money).

Now that is a whole lot more than the 249 Ronds that they retail that for.

So, they are retailing for less than wholesale.

This is called "dumping" and it is anti-competitive and illegal.

EDIT:
See "Predatory Pricing" on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing
 
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MaD said:
Yes I do realise this.

What I'm saying is that they can offer a lower price for ONLY 3GB rather than more than 3GB for the normal price.
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The problem with this is that you will never be able to accuratly determine the exact amount of traffic that will be used. That is why people end up having different thresholds each month. They have to charge you for 3Gb as they are guaranteeing you 3Gb. What you are saying is that people should only be charged for their usage. IE I used 2Gb this month - I should only get charged for that 2GB.

This is the idea that Telkom has begun using and has had this entire forum up in arms (especially the ISPs) :D
 
Heard this all before...

"According to Matthyser this system allows TelkomInternet to ‘pass on’ unused bandwidth to their high-end customers."
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Ummm, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this similar to what AllYouCanEat(.co.za) and other ISPs did in order to provide the cheap 30GB accounts last year?

If that's the case, Telkom were SO against it then and said it's a problem and that the low-end users were being cheated out of their bandwidth, etc. (I'm sure all the details are in another thread somewhere)

Anyone know how this is much different?
 
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*notice telkom decloaking on this thread* - well maybe not - but anybody who supports telkom business practises needs help!!

Telkom own the damn cable. They effectively pay nothing (the cable has already been paid for.) So any pricing or deals from them are essentially a thumbsuck of exactly how much they can screw the consumer and all other players (competitors is too strong a word) at any given time.

Telkom are a monopoly - full stop!!! Their business policies and practises are irrelevant: they dictate your reality and the reality of every isp in this country (and in reality - you have zero say.) Telkom suck and should be disbanded - at the least separated.

Dump the line fee. Immediately!! Give us broadband in line with the rest of the world - or we will continue to be a backwater economy in all ways - not least on the internet.

:mad: :mad: :mad:
 
when telkom introduced their infamous "per gig billing" last novemeber, wasnt the main reason because "certain ISPs are reselling normal 3GB accounts as 30GB accounts"? so now telkom goes and does the same thing and even have a press conference confirming that they allow users more than 3GB? :confused: talk about knowing that u r above the law and everybody else, hey... but its telkom, so im not even that surprised
 
arni1954 said:
Telkom price for 3G is R249 Webafrica price for 3G is R199 . This way Webafrica is 20% cheaper then Telkom. Different ISPs are using different methods.
Telkom is using a lot of uncompetitive metods but I don't think that this is the case here
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I think you will find that WebAfrica cannot do the same Telkom is doing even if they tried.

Let me put it this way.

Telkom asks R249 for 3gig extendable way over 12gigs

WebAfrica asks R199 for 3gigs solid.



Vallue from Telkom? Around R20 per gig (less the further over 12 gigs you go)

Vallue from WebAfrica? Around R66 per gig

So... Who will you choose? I pitty the smaller ISPs. I pitty them even more these days because they can stand together and fight, but don't fight hard enough! They should be kicking and screaming by now!

You are mislead my friend if you think Telkom is not being uncompetitive. Just my opinion.
 
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arni1954 said:
100% right . But the only paty who can break it is the givernment.
If you'll look at monopolistic behaviour aroud the world it is the same thing as Telkom. If the US government hasn't broke up ATT at a time prices in US would not have been different then S.A.
WE ARE GOING AGAIN TO THE SAME STORY. Don't expect from a monopoly to behave like non monopoly it is not in their nature.
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indeed. You need truly noble people to behave in the best interest of a country when in control of a company like Telkom. There simply aren't any noble people in Telkom. We don't seem to have them in government either, or we would have seen a change a long time ago...
 
antowan said:
I pitty the smaller ISPs. I pitty them even more these days because they can stand together and fight, but don't fight hard enough! They should be kicking and screaming by now!
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And what does the 4-letter-association do that is suppose to represent those ISPs? Nothing.

OK, not completely nothing. They are happy to collect membership fees.

PS: Why are swear words 4 letters in English, but only 3 letters in Afrikaans?
 
antowan said:
I think you will find that WebAfrica cannot do the same Telkom is doing even if they tried.

Let me put it this way.

Telkom asks R249 for 3gig extendable way over 12gigs

WebAfrica asks R199 for 3gigs solid.



Vallue from Telkom? Around R20 per gig (less the further over 12 gigs you go)

Vallue from WebAfrica? Around R66 per gig

So... Who will you choose? I pitty the smaller ISPs. I pitty them even more these days because they can stand together and fight, but don't fight hard enough! They should be kicking and screaming by now!

You are mislead my friend if you think Telkom is not being uncompetitive. Just my opinion.
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Well it depends, with Telkom you never know when your limit is going to be reached - last month I only got 5Gb. I got schlocked off in the first week of the month. This might make some consider other options - especially when considering the service side of things.

Don't know so much about nobility in Telkom or the GVT - seems quite a few nobs in there to me. But then there are nobs everywhere ^^^^
 
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Byrd said:
Well it depends, with Telkom you never know when your limit is going to be reached - last month I only got 5Gb. I got schlocked off in the first week of the month. This might make some consider other options - especially when considering the service side of things.
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So, why did you not log a fault, posted your usage, jump up and down, demanded your full share of the redistribution of bandwidth, went to the press, fly a flag, petition parlement and burned your bra? What is wrong with you? ;-) Others are getting 20GB+ per month. See: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=38638&page=4
 
allyoucaneat said:
And what does the 4-letter-association do that is suppose to represent those ISPs? Nothing.

OK, not completely nothing. They are happy to collect membership fees.

PS: Why are swear words 4 letters in English, but only 3 letters in Afrikaans?
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LOL! :D
 
mando said:
How can anyone be so stupid and talk such rubbish in one press release! And pity the poor idiots who fall for this reality distortion.

So we are supposed to believe that Telkom has a storage of bandwidth somewhere. (In batteries? Buckets????) This bandwidth is used up durin the month and sometimes they have a lot of it left over to distribute. And then on the first of the month Telkom trucks come and deliver more bandwidth and fill up the buckets.

And would anyone be dumb enough to believe that the internet outages now and again are because the bandwith truck broke down and didnt deliver on time? Make sure that you never unplug your ADSL router because the bandwidth might leak out all over the floor!

What a load of lies and bull****. The bandwidth cant get used up at the begining of the month so that there's nothing left by the end! The same bandwidth is there all the time! Get a clue people! The bandwidth that one user does not use is not sitting in a bucket somewhere waiting to be re-distributed to someone else!

Its like a highway - you cant count how many cars are on the road for the first half of the month and then say "there were less cars last week so we can allow more cars on the road this week!" If a certain amount of cars can fit on the road today then the same amount can be there tomorrow. The road doesnt get used up and recharged every month!

The telkom PR machinary is re-programming your brain! :eek:
Fight it! :mad:
Think clearly and logically!;)

And it is economics 101: look up "value based pricing" http://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/valuebasedpricing.asp
and compare this to what most people think Telkom uses "cost based pricing"
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Allthough I agree with most of your sentiments - I don't think "bandwidth" is the right term to use when referring to the number of gigs bought from an ISP - in terms of the business model forced on us by telkom the "gigs" purchased from the ISP is a finite resource.
Even if one assumes that "telkominternet" as a seperate profit centre pays the same price as other ISPs to telkom for the gigs purchased their model is still anti-competitive as they are in a unique position to obtain subscribers.
 
@kilo39

Telkom do pay something for international bandwidth. They have to pay their connection fees to whoever they connect to in the USA, Spain and all other points where their international cables connect. The fees they pay, however, are wholesale and have not been reviewed by the public but I am sure that they are negligible compared to what Telkom retails bandwidth to us. How do I know; estimated R8 BILLION profit for year ending 31st March 2006. This is up from R6 billion of the last financial year. The growth was not of subscribers (smaller than 1% growth in their subscriber base) so they had to squeeze the existing ones.

@All

Now for those that do not understand the concept of bandwidth and how it differs from usage allotment.

Bandwidth is measured in bits per second. The bits that can be transmitted per second is your bandwidth. The average ADSL account in South Africa is 384Kbps which means the pipe can shift 384000 bits per second. (For those in the know, I have simplified the figure by dropping the extra 24 in the kilo and ignored overhead). For simplicity sake, assume a packet is 1000 bits. That means the pipe can transmit 384 packets per second. Imagine that a packet is a car, then the highway analogy is one with 384 lanes.

This ties in with Mando's explanation.

What Telkom are saying, with allotments, is that the total number of cars, irrespective of time, that can pass on that highway is limited, and that it is setup such that they are invoiced on the number of cars they allow on it. Thus, to remain profitable, they have to pass this cost to their customers while doing their best to keep the pricing as low as possible. Well, that is the image they want to push.

The truth is quite a bit different. International pipes are not charged according to number of cars, but number of lanes. Thus, with our 384 lane highway, Telkom get charged the same when no car uses it during the month, or 1 million cars use it during the month (assuming Telkom are charged on a monthly basis).

By selling you the bandwidth (line rental) and an allotment (ISP charge), you are paying twice for the same commodity and that is how Telkom can make such exorbitant profits.

The local bandwidth issue is even worse. Telkom are not charged for local bandwidth. Their costs are related to the network equipment that they own / hire. Basically, while not free, their local bandwidth all-in costs are negligible so they make huge profits off local connections.

BTW Byrd, we make assumptions because Telkom won't show us their books. Unless you have inside information about Telkom, your comments carry as much weight as opinion, which puts us all on even footing ;)

Peace.
 
CONGESTION is the Issue

BandwidthAddict - you will notice I very rarely state things categoricaly. My arguments in this matter are also not reliant Telkom's costs, and therefore slightly better than opinion based on no facts or unrelated facts :D.

Telkoms charges are analagous to London's premium zone tarrif for driving in certain areas of the city. Fair enough - there is a maximum number of cars that can fit on those streets (bits in a pipe) however the surcharge is meant to prevent congestion and make it comfortable for those with the bucks to get where they want to go. Let the poor walk or take a bus!

Imagine that a packet is a car, then the highway analogy is one with 384 lanes.
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I have to disagree with this analogy - it is more like a highway that has one lane with the ability to admit 384 new cars per second. Data transmision in this medium is serial, not parallel.

Yeah Peace
I want a Peace of you ;)
 
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