Tenants are backfeeding using generators...

AstroTurf said:
I think it's a mix of all those inverter batteries charging and all those machines that are not designed to be turned off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on letting out the magic smoke.
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Yes, but what started it when it was on? :ROFL:
 
Geoff.D said:
:ROFL:

My ex-brother-in-law brought me a weedeater to fix the other day. I spent a day trying to clean and fix it, only for it to pass the smoke test when I connected it up. He says it died when LS kicked in. ----
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I'll be honest, not installed a changeover switch to my home yet and use the lead of death but:

When I turn mains and earth off in my house I know there is no power feeding beyond them, I tested it to see while running my generator and after turning my house power off upstream (plot so not quite residential wiring).
I have a very specific procedure I follow every single time.
I do not use heavy load equipment in the house (kettles, stoves geyser etc) when generator is on, only lights, tv and fridge.
Only issue I have ever had was lightning hitting the house while the generator was running.
The generator sounded like a F1car for a good 5 seconds, all the lights went super bright then they all went dark, the generator stopped then went back to "normal" working mode. Took out the AVR and that cost me all of R225 to replace.

Anyway, Do as I say not as I do.
 
konfab said:
A changeover switch is fine. But I don't think it is a good idea to use your house's wiring anyway. Just for the pure reason that there is usually a lot more stuff on the house circuit than your generator can handle.
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Nice thing about is that you can select which circuits are connected to the generator, just like you can with an inverter.
 
konfab said:
The issue is phase synchronisation. Remember, your electricity comes in an AC signal, which is a sine wave. If you want generators to work together, they have to be in phase elsewise they will cause destructive interference.

View attachment 1386916

If your generator is 180 degrees out of phase, your generator will effectively be fighting Eskom with every wave of power. Which will probably not make it last long on the earth and it will release it's blue smoke soul and shuffle off its mortal coils. Whilst it is doing this, it will probably act like a giant load on the system thus constraining the utility even more.

Without a phase-locked loop (a device that detects and aligns the phase of an AC signal source), you have no way to synchronise your generator with the grid.

This is why Eskom's greatest fear is a cascade failure. Every power station in the country has sensors on it that will disconnect it from the grid if there is too much load for the station to handle. (The frequency of the system starts deviating from 50Hz) When one large power station trips, it will cause a cascade failure as other stations will get more load and trip as well. Thus the entire grid will go down.

In order to get the grid back up, they have to pick a station, which usually would be Koeberg because it is the most reliable station in the country, and use it as the "source of truth" for the phase. They would then have to bring up every power station in the country gradually as they lock onto the signal sent by Koeberg through the transmission lines. Once they do that, they would be able to start connecting residential customers to the grid again.

So no, please don't connect your generator to the grid.


Edit: fixed the stupid 50Hz
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Dude, if my genny can trip generation or even the substation we have bigger problems than you can imagine.

Only problem in SA would be shocking some poor sparky busy replacing a transformer.
 
RedViking said:
Easy. Make it possible for them to connect it safely and legally. Might just require a bit of work from an electrician to install the correct switches to change over.

No more back feeding.

Happy tenant, safe investment.
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Of course with a smallernyana fee on the bill to cover the costs, can spread it over a couple of months to cushion the blow.
 
TheChamp said:
Of course with a smallernyana fee on the bill to cover the costs, can spread it over a couple of months to cushion the blow.
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No. It's a permanent fixture and an investment to the property. Not the tenants responsibility. Otherwise suck it up and don't cry when your house burn down because of a desperate tenant.
 
AlphaJohn said:
This is SA, they should always be ready to be called upon.
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Yeah, but it can be months (aaah, the good old days of last year). There should be an API or something to send a notification when it breaks the threshold.
 
RedViking said:
No. It's a permanent fixture and an investment to the property. Not the tenants responsibility. Otherwise suck it up and don't cry when your house burn down because of a desperate tenant.
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Otherwise tenants are simply not allowed to do illegal things like backfeeding generators, they can also suck it up when they are evicted.

I have no issue with doing things that add value but that should be the sole discretion of the owner, at his convenience, not because tenants are going rogue and doing illegal things.

Nothing unreasonable about coming to an agreement on carrying the costs if the clients insists on it.
 
TheChamp said:
Otherwise tenants are simply not allowed to do illegal things like backfeeding generators.

I have no issue with doing things that add value but that should be the sole discretion of the owner, at his convenience, not because tenants are going rogue and doing illegal things.

Nothing unreasonable about coming to an agreement on carrying the costs if the clients insists on it.
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Goodluck then. There is hope and dreams and reality.
 
RedViking said:
Goodluck then. There is hope and dreams and reality.
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Reality is that no owner or Landlord should ever be held to random like that, you knew the state of the house when you agree to rent, next week you are digging yourself a homemade pool in the owners garden because it's too hot, then the owner should be forced to pay for a proper pool? What nonsense is that?

Simple, a tenant wants to connect a generator, there is currently no provision for that, it was never promised on the lease, talk nicely with the owner to reach an amicable solution or go find a place with a generator wiring.
 
Last edited:
konfab said:
The issue is phase synchronisation. Remember, your electricity comes in an AC signal, which is a sine wave. If you want generators to work together, they have to be in phase elsewise they will cause destructive interference.

View attachment 1386916

If your generator is 180 degrees out of phase, your generator will effectively be fighting Eskom with every wave of power. Which will probably not make it last long on the earth and it will release it's blue smoke soul and shuffle off its mortal coils. Whilst it is doing this, it will probably act like a giant load on the system thus constraining the utility even more.

Without a phase-locked loop (a device that detects and aligns the phase of an AC signal source), you have no way to synchronise your generator with the grid.

This is why Eskom's greatest fear is a cascade failure. Every power station in the country has sensors on it that will disconnect it from the grid if there is too much load for the station to handle. (The frequency of the system starts deviating from 50Hz) When one large power station trips, it will cause a cascade failure as other stations will get more load and trip as well. Thus the entire grid will go down.

In order to get the grid back up, they have to pick a station, which usually would be Koeberg because it is the most reliable station in the country, and use it as the "source of truth" for the phase. They would then have to bring up every power station in the country gradually as they lock onto the signal sent by Koeberg through the transmission lines. Once they do that, they would be able to start connecting residential customers to the grid again.

So no, please don't connect your generator to the grid.


Edit: fixed the stupid 50Hz
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Thanks, puts it very well!
 
wingnut771 said:
Mybb should have a grid hz meter on their website, that way we will know when to charge batteries and fuel generators.
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Yes!

Better yet, we should come up with a DIY frequency monitoring system that posts information to a central server via an API. You would be able to predict load shedding almost perfectly.
 
TheChamp said:
Reality is that no owner or Landlord should ever be held to random like that, you knew the state of the house when you agree to rent, next week you are digging yourself a homemade pool in the owners garden because it's too hot, then the owner should be forced to pay for a proper pool? What nonsense is that?

Simple, a tenant wants to connect a generator, there is currently no provision for that, it was never promised on the lease, talk nicely with the owner to reach an amicable solution of go find a place with a generator wiring.
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Lala land. Eskom is a different story. People are desperate. In an ideal world things will work like that. Not with desperate South Africans. Just install the plugs and have peace of mind the property won't burn down.
 
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