Tenants are backfeeding using generators...

[Mike Hoxbig]

If every carport had panels then surely thats enough power agregated for a complex? Thats a lot of generation assuming one carport has six to eight panels.

I guess they had to factor in things like bad weather and night time when devising the rate. There would still be grid draw from the complex in these scenarios.

It's panels only, no batteries or brains. Each unit would then need their own inverter and battery for backup power. It's a start at least. I wouldn't mind paying R1 a unit instead of having to fork out for a full solar install of my own...

 

[wingnut771]

There's the concept of grid tie in which is not really available here but my understanding is that your source of power is able to supplement mains, so there's not like a massive "suck" from the main lines. But its certainly enough to electrocute some poor dude on a pole or in the vicinity of the house which is why where this is done, there's normally a grid tie in box.

I don't think this applies when the grid = 0V though.

 

[zerocool2009]

If its in the BC rules, then all good

 

[Nemesys]

This is what a manual changeover switch look like

 

[Vis1/0N]

I'm a bit at a loss at what to do here.

Have someone get "hurt". Point fingers.

 

[TheChamp]

With proper installation when you used the changeover switch to change from mains to generator the mains are completely disconnected, and the generator is connected to the board instead. Electricity cannot be fed back into the grid because the grid is isolated from your board.
However if you feed the power generated by the generator into a three-pin wall outlet the power will feed back into the grid. That is back feeding.

Technically it is not back feeding if the mains is isolated as @surface describes, it is however still just as dangerous and illegal because you are literally powering your whole house from a 16A plug that is not designed for such an application, if the generator is big enough for high draw appliance like kettles and stoves then all of that would be feeding from the tiny plug wiring.

It's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[wingnut771]

Some of our Devs have got a generator and they do something like this when electricity goes off. Switch off Dboard, start generator and switch the plug for generator. And then they do the reverse when lights come on.

Is this back feeding?

At the compound I stayed at in Nigeria when the power went out the big diesel generator started automatically, the a few seconds later the lights came on again. The dstv had a little PC UPS which stayed on during the change over, the aircons would turn off then on again, after a few minutes start blowing cold again. When the power came back the generator switched off automatically and the auto transfer switch switches back to grid. All automatic.

 

[AlphaJohn]

Some of our Devs have got a generator and they do something like this when electricity goes off. Switch off Dboard, start generator and switch the plug for generator. And then they do the reverse when lights come on.

Is this back feeding?

Back feed is when you forget that step. Its nasty to electronics esp when Hz doesn't match.

 

[Splinter]

Most of the generators are also not earthed like they should be when connected to a DB.

On this point - I have had my genny set up by an electrician (changeover switch at DB Board, genny connected via a camp plug) - but, I do not think the genny is earthed. What are the issues with this and how do you actually earth it?

 

[Nemesys]

Technically it is not back feeding if the mains is isolated as @surface describes, it is however still just as dangerous and illegal because you are literally powering your whole house from a 16A plug that is not designed for such an application, if the generator is big enough for high draw appliance like kettles and stoves then all of that would be feeding from the tiny plug wiring.

It's a disaster waiting to happen.

Apart from the possibility of forgetting to switch off the mains and causing the power to back feed you are also rendering the earth leakage protection inoperable thus creating an extremely dangerous situation.

 

[Geoff.D]

Technically it is not back feeding if the mains is isolated as @surface describes, it is however still just as dangerous and illegal because you are literally powering your whole house from a 16A plug that is not designed for such an application, if the generator is big enough for high draw appliance like kettles and stoves then all of that would be feeding from the tiny plug wiring.

It's a disaster waiting to happen.

You are splitting technical hairs now. The overall concept is power flows from a Source to a Load, in one direction only. ANY connection that allows power to flow from the load side back to the source is back feeding.

The concept of feeding power back into the grid via your mains connection is why the terminology started to change to "grid-tie" because that would be a special case, limited to the maximum power handling capability of the equipment installed on your feed (cables, switchgear, transformers etc). Grid-tie is a lot more complicated than people realise or want to know.

 

[TheChamp]

View attachment 1386894
This is what a manual changeover switch look like

Or just get this on the DB, it will be much easy to seamlessly connect the inverter when they finally see the error of their ways.

Din Changeover Switch 2P 63ADefault Title

Used to switch between municipal power and another source. Din Rail Changeover Switch2 Pole63 Amps

britelighting.co.za

 

[Dylan_G]

Didn't even know this was a thing that is possible.

TIL (not to ever do it)

 

[Geoff.D]

At the compound I stayed at in Nigeria when the power went out the big diesel generator started automatically, the a few seconds later the lights came on again. The dstv has a little PC UPS which stayed on during the change over, the aircons would turn off then on again, after a few minutes start blowing cold again. When the power came back the generator switched off automatically and the auto transfer switch switches back to grid. All automatic.

Yes sure. That is possible but not cheap and certainly overkill for a single dwelling even if nice and convenient. All automatic power restoration systems work like that. What you describe is what we used to refer to as an automatic break supply system. The alternative to that was an automatic no-break supply system.

 

[Kosmik]

On this point - I have had my genny set up by an electrician (changeover switch at DB Board, genny connected via a camp plug) - but, I do not think the genny is earthed. What are the issues with this and how do you actually earth it?

The metal cage is actually the earth which is why one should never touch a genie with two hands or ideally when running.

Thats for portables.

 

[AlphaJohn]

The metal cage is actually the earth which is why one should never touch a genie with two hands or ideally when running.

Thats for portables.

You suppose to ground the cage via an earth spike.

eg:

 

[Geoff.D]

Or just get this on the DB, it will be much easy to seamlessly connect the inverter when they finally see the error of their ways.

Din Changeover Switch 2P 63ADefault Title

Used to switch between municipal power and another source. Din Rail Changeover Switch2 Pole63 Amps

britelighting.co.za

Sure. A changeover switch is a changeover switch, no matter what it looks like. BUT, us old timers will always opt for the simple switch posted by @Nemesys. No one can, not understand that selection switch and how it works. That fancy one is great for technically minded people but not for the general population.

 

[Kosmik]

THis is my portable which I dust off if the batteries struggle to charge in my little setup.



No I didnt pay that, got one one on auction , sealed and new for 2k.

1. Master on off / switch, kills motor instantly and won't start without ( recoil start )
2. Circuit breaker for electrical output from genie via the three options : socket, caravan and lead
3. Caravan socket for secure protected connection to a feed point
4. Surrounding cage, warnings indicate that this could live so don't hold on to or touch to create a circuit once running, kill the master first.

As per the manual

1. GENERAL SAFETY PRECAUTIONS:​

1.1. This generator is not intended for use by persons
(including children) with reduced physical, sensory
or mental capabilities, or lack of experience and
knowledge, unless they have been given supervision
or instruction concerning use of the generator by a
person responsible for their safety.
1.2. The generator may only be operated observing the
regulations of the operation documentation and under
permanent supervision.
1.3. The generator must not be used indoors!
1.4. Fuel (Petrol) is combustible and easily ignited. Do
not perform refuelling while in operation.
1.5. Only use the specified fuel when operating the
generator. (95 Unleaded)
1.6. Do not refuel whilst smoking or near naked
flames. Do not overfill or spill fuel. If this happens
clean the fuel on and around the generator properly
before operating.
1.7. Be careful around the generator as some parts of
the internal combustion engine are hot and may cause
burns, Pay attention to all warning signs displayed on
the generator set.
1.8. Engine exhaust gases are toxic. Do not operate the
generator in an unventilated room
1.9. Regularly check that the bolts and nuts are
properly tightened as they may become lose due to
vibration of the generator whilst in use.
1.10. Before using the generator ensure that you have
checked the periodic maintenance schedule in the
operator's manual.
1.11. Pay attention to the wiring or extension cords
from the generator to the connected device. If the wire
is under the generator or in contact with a vibrating
part, it may break and possibly cause a fire, generator
burnout, or electric shock hazard. Replace damaged or
worn cords immediately.
1.12. Ensure that the specifications of the extenstion
cord you are using is compatible with the generator.
1.13. Do not operate in rain, wet or damp conditions,
or with wet hands. The operator may suffer severe
electric shock if the generator is wet.
1.14. If wet, wipe and dry it well before starting. Do
not pour water directly over the generator, nor wash hit
with water.
1.15. Do not connect the generator to the mains power
grid.
1.16. Keep children and all bystanders at a safe
distance from the generator whilst in use.
1.17. It is absolutely essential that you know and
understand the safe and proper use of the power tool
or appliance that you intend to connect to the genera-
tor. All operators must read, understand and follow the
tool/ appliance operators' manual. The tool and appli-
ance applications and limitations must be understood.
Keep all instruction manuals and in a safe place for
future reference.
1.18. Always switch off the circuit breaker on the
generator when not in use.

 

[Kosmik]

You suppose to ground the cage via an earth spike.

eg:
View attachment 1386912

That won't stop you from getting a zap though if you touch it unless the surface is coated in non conductive.

 

[Geoff.D]

You suppose to ground the cage via an earth spike.

eg:
View attachment 1386912

Do you mean sticking an earth rod into a wheelbarrow or a bucket full of earth is not good enough?

Who would have thought? /s for those that need it pointed out to them.