Tesla Powerwall: SA pricing questions

[Budza]

We all agree that Tesla's crapola is prettier than my patchy beige enclosure sitting between a broken aircon, some spare tiles and half rotten kitchen units, and that's the way I like it. Doesn't make it better, unless you're a poser.

Can we get some pics of your setup?

Do you have a thread for it?

 

[itareanlnotani]

I'm always obnoxious, and especially impatient when idiots ignore my questions because they have no answers, and think I won't notice.

What questions? I asked you for more info, you didn't want to supply info, and then derailed into being rude to various people.

I haven't avoided answering anything that I'm aware of.

 

[JStrike]

It would sound that way to someone without any clue at all.

lsheed_cn is actually one of the most knowledgeable people here when it comes to solar tech (batteries included).

And you really should stop being rude and obnoxious

 

[Space_Chief]

So what? Unless you're discharging your Powerwall everyday (and the 10kWh isn't rated for that), both are going to last the same number of years.



You know the difference between my lead acid batteries and your Powerwall? Mine exists.



This depth of discharge obsession is bull****. You buy batteries to work, not to win a pissing contest. My Panasonics cost R2 300/kWh, can easily supply the 4.5kW my UPS is capable of drawing, and last 10 years, so R1 600 per year, in my case. Your Crapola is R5 500/kWh, can only supply 2kW, and will probably last 10 years, you so R16 500 per year, in my case ('cause I'll need three of them to meet my peak needs). I don't particularly give a **** how many cycles that is, or what percentage discharge I get.

Dude some people here are having wet dreams about anything made by Tesla. This is Steve Jobs II.

 

[Crowley]

If I was installing Lead Acid, I would definitely hide it... that thing however?... well I would put it front and center in my garage on an open wall in front of my car so I could gaze upon it every time I drove into my garage : P

I'm sure some of the posters here would go a step further. Mount it on the outside so that everybody who drives past can see they have one. Maybe we should send Musk a mail and ask him to make it in black so everybody who drives past can see the Apple stickers that is stuck on it...

 

[Drunkard #1]

Except it is superior in a very important way, that you are leaving out. Design.
Design is important. If I want this in my house, then I want it to look good.

And that's not mentioning the smart software and OTA software updates

For you, and your fellow posers. OTA updates. LOL. What exactly needs to be updated? I hate to break it to you, but all your smart software was loaded into various battery charger ICs a decade ago.

Can we get some pics of your setup?

Do you have a thread for it?

No, they're just external batteries for UPSs. I did learn a ****load designing and installing them. Let me put it this way - the first one works, but the third one is damn professional. There is a thread about what happened to the old batteries...

What questions? I asked you for more info, you didn't want to supply info, and then derailed into being rude to various people.

I haven't avoided answering anything that I'm aware of.

Here you are.

And if you want to move forward on this issue, you're going to need to address the serious short-comings of the Powerwall: No choice (350V doesn't work for me - I need 192V nominal), piss-poor maximum power output (2kW, I mean, seriously, my kettle draws more than that), over priced and fragile. (and it vapour-ware)

lsheed_cn is actually one of the most knowledgeable people here when it comes to solar tech (batteries included).

And you really should stop being rude and obnoxious

Doesn't come across that way. He claims that the Panasonic datasheet I posted supports his figures, which tells me that he probably can't read.

 

[Drunkard #1]

Dude some people here are having wet dreams about anything made by Tesla. This is Steve Jobs II.

Seems it.

I'm sure some of the posters here would go a step further. Mount it on the outside so that [-]everybody who drives past can see they have one. Maybe we should send Musk a mail and ask him to make it in black so everybody who drives past can see the Apple stickers that is stuck on it...[/-] it doesn't take the house with it when it explodes.

FTFY

 

[JStrike]

I'm sure some of the posters here would go a step further. Mount it on the outside so that everybody who drives past can see they have one. Maybe we should send Musk a mail and ask him to make it in black so everybody who drives past can see the Apple stickers that is stuck on it...

It already comes in black...

 

[Crowley]

It already comes in black...

In that case your Apple stickers will stand out just fine.

 

[MrGray]

You could. I, however, don't like buying things that I have to hide away. And the Tesla Powerwall specifically address this.
Add to that the great technology, the smart features that get updated via other the air updates, and it is finally a battery tech I would actually buy

I completely disagree. Your power supply is in the category of basic infrastructure that you shouldn't care about or have to look at (or care about anybody else looking at) as long as it is working. If Tesla starts making geysers, gutters, septic tanks and rubbish bins are you going to proudly display those in your living room as well?

 

[Swa]

This depth of discharge obsession is bull****. You buy batteries to work, not to win a pissing contest. My Panasonics cost R2 300/kWh, can easily supply the 4.5kW my UPS is capable of drawing, and last 10 years, so R1 600 per year, in my case. Your Crapola is R5 500/kWh, can only supply 2kW, and will probably last 10 years, you so R16 500 per year, in my case ('cause I'll need three of them to meet my peak needs). I don't particularly give a **** how many cycles that is, or what percentage discharge I get.

Geez. You ignore everything that can make or break a system. The "Crapola" will probably last 20 years before it really has to be changed. The depth of charge is real and makes the biggest difference. Your Panapoofs' kWh means nothing if only 30% of it is available without severely shortening the life of the battery and even then you can't expect more than 15 years useful life out of them so you'll have to overprovision by a factor of 3. Compare that to a system where you can use most of its capacity and you don't have to overprovision more than a factor 1.5. Assuming they're stating usable capacity. You've been doing this for like 2 years now? Let's wait to see what you're singing when your system is 5 years old and just plain crap.

I'm always obnoxious, and especially impatient when idiots ignore my questions because they have no answers, and think I won't notice.

But it's all on topic, since the topic is "why would anyone spend R55 000 on a Lithium battery that's inferior to Lead Acid in every important <see what I did there, JStrike> way."

Now I'm sure you're just doing your name justice.

 

[Crowley]

If Tesla starts making geysers, gutters, septic tanks and rubbish bins are you going to proudly display those in your living room as well?

Living room, kitchen, outside walls, streaming banners, smoke signals etc.

 

[Drunkard #1]

Geez. You ignore everything that can make or break a system. The "Crapola" will probably last 20 years before it really has to be changed. The depth of charge is real and makes the biggest difference. Your Panapoofs' kWh means nothing if only 30% of it is available without severely shortening the life of the battery and even then you can't expect more than 15 years useful life out of them so you'll have to overprovision by a factor of 3. Compare that to a system where you can use most of its capacity and you don't have to overprovision more than a factor 1.5. Assuming they're stating usable capacity. You've been doing this for like 2 years now? Let's wait to see what you're singing when your system is 5 years old and just plain crap.

My Panasonic's kWh rating is for 500 cycles to 10.8V (ie: slightly less than 100% depth of discharge) giving me 8kWh, which will last me more than 10 years. That's what's provisioned, and that's what's installed - no over provisioning needed.

I don't care about depth of discharge because I have no control over it. I don't care about smart software because my batteries are cheap and dumb (but in a single string, kept cool and within the recommended voltage). I care about having to buy three (or more) of these Crapolas because of their piss poor kW rating. I care about a 10 year life span and no more, because I know that 1) I'm only paying R16 000 for 16 batteries NOW (not R165 000 for 3 Crapolas), and 2) I can't predict the future. My designs have changed over the past 8 years (since I installed my first building's UPS), and they will change again.

But we'll talk again in 20 years, that is, 10 years after you've dumped your Crapola because it failed/became obsolete/exploded and took your house with it.

Now I'm sure you're just doing your name justice.

For my application, they're inferior - they're less powerful, more expensive, more fragile, more flashy and really just won't work - they're 350V where I need 192V.

I completely disagree. Your power supply is in the category of basic infrastructure that you shouldn't care about or have to look at (or care about anybody else looking at) as long as it is working. If Tesla starts making geysers, gutters, septic tanks and rubbish bins are you going to proudly display those in your living room as well?

Only if the badge is prominently displayed.

 

[JStrike]

I completely disagree. Your power supply is in the category of basic infrastructure that you shouldn't care about or have to look at (or care about anybody else looking at) as long as it is working. If Tesla starts making geysers, gutters, septic tanks and rubbish bins are you going to proudly display those in your living room as well?

Don't want a septic tank, but my gutters and rubbish bins were most certainly bought to look good

 

[JStrike]

In that case your Apple stickers will stand out just fine.

Why would I want to ruin a good design with stickers? Or are you trying to insult me?

 

[MrGray]

Tesla Powerwall: not much cheaper and also a bit wimpier than existing batteries

 

[Syco]

How soon we forget! Read this article (http://www.csir.co.za/enews/2013_jun/16.html) to understand that the CSIR in South Africa took the Li-Ion battery to where it is today. Some American named Goodenough claims to be the inventor but without Dr Michael Thackery at the CSIR the battery would be nowhere it is today. Like most of our great scientists he now lives and works in America.

 

[JStrike]

How soon we forget! Read this article (http://www.csir.co.za/enews/2013_jun/16.html) to understand that the CSIR in South Africa took the Li-Ion battery to where it is today. Some American named Goodenough claims to be the inventor but without Dr Michael Thackery at the CSIR the battery would be nowhere it is today. Like most of our great scientists he now lives and works in America.

I don't think anyone forgot about Thackery . And it would be odd for a major scientist to not move to one of the major markets

 

[Syco]

I don't think anyone forgot about Thackery . And it would be odd for a major scientist to not move to one of the major markets

I agree but have you had any dealings with the CSIR lately? If you have then I think that you will understand why a brilliant scientist like Dr Thackery and many others made the move.

 

[Swa]

My Panasonic's kWh rating is for 500 cycles to 10.8V (ie: slightly less than 100% depth of discharge) giving me 8kWh, which will last me more than 10 years. That's what's provisioned, and that's what's installed - no over provisioning needed.

I don't care about depth of discharge because I have no control over it. I don't care about smart software because my batteries are cheap and dumb (but in a single string, kept cool and within the recommended voltage). I care about having to buy three (or more) of these Crapolas because of their piss poor kW rating. I care about a 10 year life span and no more, because I know that 1) I'm only paying R16 000 for 16 batteries NOW (not R165 000 for 3 Crapolas), and 2) I can't predict the future. My designs have changed over the past 8 years (since I installed my first building's UPS), and they will change again.

But we'll talk again in 20 years, that is, 10 years after you've dumped your Crapola because it failed/became obsolete/exploded and took your house with it.

LMFAO. You're comparing a cheapo 500 cycle product to a 3000+ cycle one and calling the clearly superior product "crappola" because you don't need that level of superiority.

For my application, they're inferior - they're less powerful, more expensive, more fragile, more flashy and really just won't work - they're 350V where I need 192V.

No they're superior. They're too superior for what you need that doesn't make them inferior.