The Bodybuilders Thread!

[InternetSwag]

The master has spoken

Thanks Tinuva

Yeah those wide ass pull ups are hard as fawk, I literally can't do one o.o

 

[InternetSwag]

any one read engineering the alpha ?

I see you've been reading my autobiography.

 

[bromster]

I actually started doing pullups during one of my cutting phases, just to try and maintain a little strength. 20min stepper, 2 sets pullups, 20 min cycle, 2 sets pullups, 20min skipping, 2 sets pullups.

As it turns out, when I went back to bench press after 2 months, my 12 rep max had improved by about 10kg. After another 2 months I was up another 10. Pullups are the BEST thing I have ever included in my workout. I never bothered with the underhand to be honest, but now they are a piece of cake.

During this cutting phase:

-When I started, I could do maybe 2 normal grip pullups with correct form.
-Started with a narrow grip doing 2 sets of 6 or so (with assistance either from a buddy/ one foot on a bench to remove weight)
-Moved on to normal grip after a week or so. By this stage I could push to about 8 with a spot. Did the normal grips for a good few weeks, trying wide grips every now and then but the motion makes it super difficult, so I just stuck to normal.
-Wide grips are MUCH harder, but force yourself to do them. I dropped back to about 6 reps, but gradually worked my way up to 12. Now I can't believe I struggled to do 2. And I don't know if everyone has these Technogym machines, but my lat pulldowns improved from 6 reps of 60 to 6 reps of 80

If I had to make a list of tips:
-F*(K what everyone thinks when you can only do 2 reps. The occasional stares you get when you can do an easy 12 make up for it later.
-Don't cheat. Let your legs hang and avoid using their momentum to help you.
-Your spot should push up between your shoulder blades, not offer you something to push off by supporting your legs.
-Do not do pullups 2 days in a row. Allow your body to recover for at least a day.
-Don't use that counterweight machine thingy unless you are just starting out. It just doesn't feel right. Go straight for the proper pullup bar if you can.

That is what worked for me. Got me past a serious plateau on chest and back.

 

[RogueTr00per]

Oh lol, yeah I can do a few chin ups then I was talking about struggling with pull ups.

InternetSwag, IMO, forget about weighted chin ups until you can do a decent amount of pull ups

Mike Chang has a nice video on the different kinds of pull ups one should do for a V-cut back. Also shows how to begin if you need to do assisted pull ups. Good thing it's on my Like list

Yeah, watching this again, I think I'm not sticking my chest out and therefore using my arms too much to pull up.

EDIT: Nice advice Bromster! Pretty much gels with what Mike Chang says in the video and what others have told me in the past but that I forgot

EDIT2: Thanks Tinuva for the pullup advice too, I half missed your post

 

[Tinuva]

Yeah if you use momentum on the pull-up, it becomes a different exercise, which I believe is called kipping. This is the type of pull-ups the cross-fit guys are doing, and is why they can do 50-100 reps.

The only time I will personally suggest using momentum, is when you work towards doing a muscle-up.

 

[prod]

Speaking of pullups, I feel really sorry for those people doing 30 ''pullups'' on the assisted machine, it's pathetic really.

 

[Hemps]

Yeah those wide ass pull ups are hard as fawk, I literally can't do one o.o

I find wide grip pullups easier than using a shoulder width, might be because I feel confined when using the narrower grip or it's working a different part of my lats/back muscles.
I only started doing wide grip pullups this year and from the start could do over 15, I want to start chinups this coming weekend when I introduce my biceps routine.
I always start my back routine these days with 50 wide grip pullups, right before dead lifts.

Now that I think of it I find a narrow grip on bench difficult as well, a wide grip is much easier for me..........mmmm something to ponder.

 

[Tinuva]

Probably because narrow grip on bench is more focussed on the triceps than on the chest muscles.

As for narrow grip on pull-ups...that poses and interesting question, but is probably just to do with how it targets the back muscles.

 

[Joe505]

Did u gain muscle or lose fat? Were u not eating enough? How old are u?

I gained muscle luckily, but at the same time also added a bit of fat to my belly, (which was to be expected since i had start eating much more than i used to).

I suppose one could argue i am not eating as much as i should be, but the thing is i am definitely eating way more than i used to before. But i am gradually increasing my intake... Just want to get my system used to all this eating without developing any allergies and the like.

I am 24.

Oh and on this whole pull up / chin up talk, i definitely will agree chin ups are definitely easier than those wide grip pull ups. As IS mentioned, the ones at the gym are so freaking long that it becomes difficult to have a good grip and be able to lift with good form.

So can it be said, that chin ups (narrow) are great for biceps, while pull ups (wide) are better for the back and shoulders?

 

[Hemps]

Probably because narrow grip on bench is more focussed on the triceps than on the chest muscles.

Yeah, think I need to add a trcieps routine into my routine, some heavy skull crushers or something.

 

[Tinuva]

So can it be said, that chin ups (narrow) are great for biceps, while pull ups (wide) are better for the back and shoulders?

Just be careful.

Narrow grip doesn't mean you call it a chin-up. It is when you use underhand grip that you call it chin-ups, eg fingers pointing to your body. Which is why they are targeting biceps more than pull-ups, which are overhand grip.

Something you guys can try to help with pull-ups, push your chest out forward. This will force your back muscle to activate earlier when you do the pull-up. This is actually the correct way to do a pull-up. However, to finish the whole ROM (range of motion) your chest needs to touch the bar at the top.

 

[Orihalcon]

Pull ups...my most hated enemy in the gym - coming from being a fat ass (and now still weighty at 95kg even at 15% bf) doing pull ups always illustrated how underpowerd my back was.

Started out trying to do just one...but consistancy is key gentlemen Can take that bar out wide now (grip where the handles slant down) and do sets of 6 for 5 sets. The goal is of course to get that up to 10 reps

No other excersise in my opinion showcases strength like a proper wide grip pull performed from dead hang position.

 

[RogueTr00per]

In this video Elliot Hulse talks about how it takes 300 to 500 reps for your nervous system to learn a particular recruitment pattern.
And it takes 3000-5000 reps to fix an incorrect one!!!

I'm gonna drop my squatting and deadlifting weight a bit because I'm still relatively new to both and don't wanna develop bad form as a habit! Noticed form was suffering at my max deadlifting weight by the 3rd set or so in my last session.

Truth About Squatting Heavy Weights, bookmarked at 9m00s:
[video=youtube_share;umc0-i7EKrk]http://youtu.be/umc0-i7EKrk?t=9m00s[/video]

<snip>
Something you guys can try to help with pull-ups, push your chest out forward. This will force your back muscle to activate earlier when you do the pull-up. This is actually the correct way to do a pull-up. However, to finish the whole ROM (range of motion) your chest needs to touch the bar at the top.

Will try do that thanks!! Elaborating on the tip mentioned in the Mike Chang video I posted a few posts back.

Re: Doing pullups whilst doing stronglifts 5x5, should I do this on non stronglifts workout days? Not sure if then I might be doing too much back work without enough rest?

Also, if i do crunches and other ab work on non gym days, then the next day when i go do stronglifts is that gonna mess up ab recovery or not so much because ab work is different to core work?

 

[RogueTr00per]

I gained muscle luckily, but at the same time also added a bit of fat to my belly, (which was to be expected since i had start eating much more than i used to).

I suppose one could argue i am not eating as much as i should be, but the thing is i am definitely eating way more than i used to before. But i am gradually increasing my intake... Just want to get my system used to all this eating without developing any allergies and the like.

I am 24.
<snip>

I speak under correction, but if you were gaining too much fat then you were eating too many calories for the level of exercise you were doing. I gather it's acceptable to gain some fat when gaining muscle, perhaps the others can tell us what ratio is acceptable.

Perhaps GOMAD is not for you then...

In terms of how fast one can gain muscle, I believe it's somewhere between 500g and 1kg per month, and that would be for a beginner. A very slow process compared to losing fat which is anything from 500g to 1kg (or more) per week! 500g of fat loss per week being the 'ideal' amount. Again, speaking under correction as the resident non-expert

 

[Tinuva]

Re: Doing pullups whilst doing stronglifts 5x5, should I do this on non stronglifts workout days? Not sure if then I might be doing too much back work without enough rest?

Also, if i do crunches and other ab work on non gym days, then the next day when i go do stronglifts is that gonna mess up ab recovery or not so much because ab work is different to core work?

Do them on the SL5x5 days, after the regular SL5x5 exercises.

Eg. I think this is the current suggested SL5x5 workouts

Workout A
Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Barbell Rows 5x5
Extra:
Pushups 3 x Failure

Workout B
Squat 5x5
Overhead Press 5x5
Deadlift 1x5
Extra:
Pullups 3 x Failure

 

[InternetSwag]

Hmm, with my new routine my shoulder day will be really short, but that's cool.

Tomorrow I'll only do OHP and lateral raises.

Might as well throw in some biceps again, dat der calf type muscle >.<

 

[RogueTr00per]

OK, feeling like i need to up my game My girl cousin and her training partners, they do strength training with a PT 3 times a week. Twice a week without the PT they do lighter strength training and general fitness stuff.

They've been training seriously with the PT for about a year now. The 3 of them, weigh from the low fifties to the low sixties in KGs. For their one rep maxes they are deadlifting around the Advanced level for women around 90kg and they are squatting in the Advanced to Elite category between 70kg and up to 80kg.

Their newest member in the group who has only been training with them for a couple of months is the one squatting 80kg!! A really petite or shall i say slender chick. I don't know offhand what training she did before. On her first day of deadlifting she did 50kg, no big deal deadlifting for the first time practically her bodyweight...

Their one rep maxes for bench press range from 40kg to 45kg. I don't think they even train bench press at all...

I haven't trained with them yet but I would imagine their PT knows his stuff (been in Mens Health mag a couple of times) and hopefully has them executing good form. I haven't heard of them getting injured in all the time they been with him. <edit>OK, looking back at past chats he has them doing good form on everything and knows all kinds of little tricks and is always there to spot them when they pushing to their max weights. Guess that makes a HUGE difference to how fast one progresses.</>

Despite the fact I only weigh a few more KG than them, I guess even my testosterone advantage is not enough to save my lazy weak a$$? I only know my one rep maxes from exrx.net One Rep Max Calculator but I'm gonna have to test myself for real next time at gym and make a note.

 

[xrapidx]

First week of cutting over, I officially started at 111kg last week Sunday, sitting at 107.8kg now - I expect the loss to slow somewhat now, as you always drop a lot in the first week.

The program is killing me though, I had DOMS from Tuesday and still do in my legs - and I did legs again today - I think its because I haven't done them in so long because of my back (and I'm doing incredibly light weights, so an odd feeling). Tomorrow starts the 40s rest in between sets, a big difference from starting at 60s last week Monday.

 

[RogueTr00per]

First week of cutting over, I officially started at 111kg last week Sunday, sitting at 107.8kg now - I expect the loss to slow somewhat now, as you always drop a lot in the first week.

The program is killing me though, I had DOMS from Tuesday and still do in my legs - and I did legs again today - I think its because I haven't done them in so long because of my back (and I'm doing incredibly light weights, so an odd feeling). Tomorrow starts the 40s rest in between sets, a big difference from starting at 60s last week Monday.

wow, does that programme require gyming almost every day?

 

[JerryMungo]

First week of cutting over, I officially started at 111kg last week Sunday, sitting at 107.8kg now - I expect the loss to slow somewhat now, as you always drop a lot in the first week.

The program is killing me though, I had DOMS from Tuesday and still do in my legs - and I did legs again today - I think its because I haven't done them in so long because of my back (and I'm doing incredibly light weights, so an odd feeling). Tomorrow starts the 40s rest in between sets, a big difference from starting at 60s last week Monday.

Nice, well done! How is your diet? I'm trying to cut, but diet is the hardest part. We're being hit with cold weather in the EC and I lose it properly with hot chocolate and biscuits in winter... eish!

On another note, after two phases of four in Sixpack Shortcuts, I've increased my max dips to 25-30 from 20. It's always nice when you see clear progress like that. I haven't done dips once in about 3 months of starting SPS, but I thought i'd just try them since I always enjoyed dips and was pleasantly surprised. TBH I was expecting to be worse off since I haven't touched the dip aparatus for some time. Really enjoying the balance of HIT and weights that SPS pushes... best of both worlds IMO.