The Brexit Thread

[Dave]

That bit in bold type being the problem, not brexit itself ...

I think you missed the more relevant part of the article.

The poll provides another indication that public support for a second Brexit referendum is growing. Most people (50%) supported a three-way Brexit referendum asking them to choose between the deal suggested by the government, no deal, and remaining on the EU, with 40% opposed – 10% answered don’t know.

Asked to choose between those options, remaining in the EU was preferred by 48%, with 27% opting for no deal and 13% choosing the government deal. Eight per cent said they would not vote, while 3% didn’t know.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

I think you missed the more relevant part of the article.

Simply reaffirms the issue is with May's bs plan. Sure and people also don't want the absence of a deal, courtesy of all the bs bremoaner fearmongering.

Put differently, if a half decent deal was on the table, odds are that would be the all out favourite option, it just so happens the only options polled were:
- ****ty deal
- no deal
- status quo

 

[Dave]

Simply reaffirms the issue is with May's bs plan. Sure and people also don't want the absence of a deal, courtesy of all the bs bremoaner fearmongering.

Put differently, if a half decent deal was on the table, odds are that would be the all out favourite option, it just so happens the only options polled were:
- ****ty deal
- no deal
- status quo

The pie in the sky Utopian crap offered by Farage/Johnson/Gove has long disappeared, the cold light of reality saw to that.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

The pie in the sky Utopian crap offered by Farage/Johnson/Gove has long disappeared, the cold reality of intentional delays and incompetence saw to that.

ftfy

EDIT: also, did anyone, ever, seriously believe Boris is pro-brexit?!? it's patently obvious that he's merely a political whore willing to sell himself to whatever movement has the momentum

 

[Dave]

ftfy

No, for a start the brexiteers had no idea what to do when they won the referendum, as an example, the Irish border question hadn’t been considered and as the Good Friday Agreement is an international treaty they can’t legally make changes without the consent of the other signatories, do you think they thought to ask Eire what they thought before deciding to try and leave the common market?

Any Brexit that doesn’t take cognisance of that will be open to a legal challenge (which the government will lose), they also forgot about all the other EU agencies that the UK had allowed to take over administrative functions, you think any Brexit supporter had even the remotest idea that leaving EURATOM would suddenly mean medical treatments for cancer could be curtailed or have to cease?

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

No, for a start the brexiteers had no idea what to do when they won the referendum

Just like over 40 years ago nobody who voted to join the European Economic Community had any clue how much control they will end up handing over. So what?

You either back yourself (or your country in this case) to manage the consequences to your advantage someday down the line or you don't, it is quite literally impossible to have known the full extent of brexit, just like it was impossible to know the full extent of joining the EEC. So what?

 

[Lucas Buck]

Just like over 40 years ago nobody who voted to join the European Economic Community had any clue how much control they will end up handing over. So what?

You either back yourself (or your country in this case) to manage the consequences to your advantage someday down the line or you don't, it is quite literally impossible to have known the full extent of brexit, just like it was impossible to know the full extent of joining the EEC. So what?

There's a secret called research, a select group of people have discovered its magical properties. These select few do research before making any major decisions that may have far reaching consequences. They have however kept the magic called research to themselves.
So I can understand why the brexiters couldn't know the full extent of their proposal due to not having access to the magic called research.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

There's a thing called research, a select group of people have discovered its magical properties. These select few do research before making any major decisions that may have far reaching consequences. They have however kept the magic called research to themselves.
So I can understand why the brexiters couldn't know the full extent of their proposal due to not having access to the magic called research.

Like the research that predicted the .com crash and avoided it? or the housing bubble? or that either brexit or Trump would win?

These things are simply not an exact science, the research only serves to inform your assumptions. It might as well be "magic" for all the reliability it would have.

 

[Lucas Buck]

Like the research that predicted the .com crash and avoided it? or the housing bubble? or that either brexit or Trump would win?

These things are simply not an exact science, the research only serves to inform your assumptions. It might as well be "magic" for all the reliability it would have.

You were responding to Daves post and that's what I was responding to. Those things mentioned in Daves post were not beyond the limits of proper research and planning.
I'm not sure why you're trying to shift the conversation from research that should have been done prior to Brexit to, oh look here we can't predict everything.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Those things mentioned in Daves post were not beyond the limits of proper research and planning

Oh really? So the research would have shown beyond doubt that a cooperation agreement with EURATOM is impossible for the UK even though others have them in place without being members?
http://ec.europa.eu/world/agreements/downloadFile.do?fullText=yes&treatyTransId=530

 

[Lucas Buck]

Oh really? So the research would have shown beyond doubt that a cooperation agreement with EURATOM is impossible for the UK even though others have them in place without being members?
http://ec.europa.eu/world/agreements/downloadFile.do?fullText=yes&treatyTransId=530

So what? I'm starting to doubt that you read the content of the link in the article that Daves provided. Was this beyond the bounds of proper research? How could it not be accounted for?

The BMA has warned that increased customs checks pose a grave threat to the "consistent and timely access to radioactive isotopes," potentially causing "delays in diagnosis and cancelled operations for patients."

A spokesperson for Department for Exiting the European Union described concern over the UK's relationship with Euratom after Brexit as"scaremongering," in a written statement sent to BI.

I expect more from a government or from a politician making a proposal than a 'We'll cross that bridge when it comes' attitude. People have legitimate concerns and to trivialise it by calling it scaremongering doesn't help, seeing as brexit is going ahead irrespective of opposition to it.

 

[Dave]

Oh really? So the research would have shown beyond doubt that a cooperation agreement with EURATOM is impossible for the UK even though others have them in place without being members?
http://ec.europa.eu/world/agreements/downloadFile.do?fullText=yes&treatyTransId=530

It was the Brexiteers who decided a complete break from agencies like EURATOM was what they desired, not the EU.

Apparently they wanted nothing to do with any EU agency because of ECJ oversight on the agencies. Of course, they were quite clueless of the ramifications of their idealistic attitude...

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Womp womp.

Britain Becomes the Economic Black Sheep of G-7 Nations

The U.K. was the only Group of Seven country to see growth slow in 2017, according to the Office for National Statistics.

Britain's car industry cautions: No-deal Brexit is our nightmare

13-mile lorry park may last 'many years' after Brexit, impact reports reveal

According to internal Brexit impact reports from two Conservative-run local councils, the conversion of four lanes of the M20 motorway into a 13-mile (20km) long lorry park could be in place for a number of years after the UK's departure from the EU.

The first preparations for the scheme, known as Operation Brock, have just begun, with hard shoulders about to be strengthened to sustain the weight of hundreds of parked articulated lorries.

Such a scenario is anticipated should either the Channel Tunnel or cross-Channel ferry routes see new customs or regulatory checks after Brexit.

In the internal Brexit impact report from Dover District Council, obtained by Sky News, some exasperation is expressed at the slow pace of central government preparedness.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

It was the Brexiteers who decided a complete break from agencies like EURATOM was what they desired, not the EU.

Apparently they wanted nothing to do with any EU agency because of ECJ oversight on the agencies. Of course, they were quite clueless of the ramifications of their idealistic attitude...

Separate issues though, as May so aptly demonstrates, brexit does not necessarily have to mean an end to free movement or things like EURATOM membership.

Massive disconnect between what the idealists wanted and what the negotiators are going for though.

 

[The_Assimilator]

Separate issues though, as May so aptly demonstrates, brexit does not necessarily have to mean an end to free movement or things like EURATOM membership.

Massive disconnect between what the idealists wanted and what the negotiators are going for though.

Yes, because what the "idealists" want is pants-on-head retarded bonkers idiocy that nobody halfway sane would ever agree to.

 

[Dave]

Yes, because what the "idealists" want is pants-on-head retarded bonkers idiocy that nobody halfway sane would ever agree to.

Exactly.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Yes, because what the "idealists" want is pants-on-head retarded bonkers idiocy that nobody halfway sane would ever agree to.

That's your perception / opinion, sadly we are unlikely to ever know how good, or bad, a hard brexit would have been.

 

[f2wohf]

I have a soft spot for Old Etonians but recent events remind me of an old friend's observation about their role on Brexit: "One let it happen, another made it happen, and yet another is making it even worse".

:crylaugh:

 

[The_Assimilator]

<mouth-breathing intensifies>

 

[Dave]

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