The Brexit Thread

Chris_the_Brit

High Tory
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Reckon he's a banker for tonight. Question is, which of the other two is getting the chop? Probably Gove.
Yes. Easiest for Boris would be the very low energy Jeremy Hunt. Remember Gove stabbed Boris in the back in 2016 which ultimately led to the Maybot.

I hope Boris' campaign manager is engaging in "dark arts" (aka "tactical voting" aka "politics") to get Gove eliminated. Gove's face irritates me. Definite voter repellent.

You need to play this clip with sound. So good :laugh:

 

R13...

Honorary Master
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So what does it mean if BJ wins and supports no deal? Can he by himself decide that without needing to pass it through a vote like May tried and failed countless times? Or will it be another round of votes where nothing is agreed?
 

Chris_the_Brit

High Tory
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So what does it mean if BJ wins and supports no deal? Can he by himself decide that without needing to pass it through a vote like May tried and failed countless times? Or will it be another round of votes where nothing is agreed?
He won't get no deal pass parliament but as PM he is allowed to activate the 'nuclear option' of proroguing parliament, which is admittedly highly controversial. However, Remoaner MPs have been tampering with Britain's unwritten Constitution by, for example, controlling the "business of the house" (which in normal circumstances is the prerogative of the government). Also what many British MPs don't really understand is they cannot, by themselves, rule out No Deal since it requires the blessing of the EU.

Also I read today (it's behind a paywall so will only quote the relevant paragraph) that the extension until the 31st of October includes this nasty little clause, which I didn't know existed:

First, the Article 50 extension agreement that kept the UK in the EU until October 31st explicitly forbids any further negotiations on the Withdrawal Agreement, stating (paragraph 12) This extension excludes any re-opening of the Withdrawal Agreement. It also explicitly forbids any simple free trade agreement or other of the schemes Boris’ supporters have suggested he might deliver by October 31st for the future UK-EU relationship, stating “Such an extension cannot be used to start negotiations on the future relationship.
 

noxibox

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Not a surprise. The EU has been quite open and clear that there will be no more negotiating.
 

C4Cat

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Also I read today (it's behind a paywall so will only quote the relevant paragraph) that the extension until the 31st of October includes this nasty little clause, which I didn't know existed:
Surprised you weren't aware of this. The EU has stated repeatedly that May's negotiated agreement is the only agreement they will consider and further negotiation is not an option.
 

BBSA

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Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt are through to the final round of the Conservative Party leadership contest to become the next prime minister of Britain
 

OrbitalDawn

Ulysses Everett McGill
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Surprised you weren't aware of this. The EU has stated repeatedly that May's negotiated agreement is the only agreement they will consider and further negotiation is not an option.
It's the delusion that underpins a lot of BoJo's support, seemingly. The EU has also made it patently clear (it should be obvious, really) that the negotiation is between the EU and the UK, not between the EU and May.
 

rietrot

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Surprised you weren't aware of this. The EU has stated repeatedly that May's negotiated agreement is the only agreement they will consider and further negotiation is not an option.
I'm surprised you guys take that seriously. They're just playing chicken, as soon as Britain seriously start a hard no deal exit, they'll want to negotiate again.
 

Gingerbeardman

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It's the delusion that underpins a lot of BoJo's support, seemingly. The EU has also made it patently clear (it should be obvious, really) that the negotiation is between the EU and the UK, not between the EU and May.
So you mean that people realistically believe that BoJo will tell the EU to come to the table and negotiate something better, or give them the middle finger in the form of hard brexit? :D

 

noxibox

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Overall I'd want someone with the time to properly research and critique this particular Arthur Kemp book. What I can tell from a bit of research is that he is a white supremacist who has had ties in the past to various white supremacist and neo-Nazi organisations. And obviously he is going to claim the book is well researched.

The African Boat Invasion: If Europeans did it to Africa, the World would Scream ‘Colonization’….If hundreds of thousands of Europeans jumped on boats and sailed across the Mediterranean Sea to Africa, without papers or formal immigration papers, the world’s liberals would be screaming ‘colonization’
No they wouldn't, because the liberals would be Africans and Europe would have been their proxy battleground.

The author shows firstly how all cultures are unique to their originating peoples
Let's imagine this claim is true. It would mean there is no overarching European people with a culture. There would be no white culture to protect either. No such thing exists. But in general modern cultures don't have originating peoples unless those people happen to have lived in complete isolation. It is simply not how culture works. And speaking specifically it absolutely does not apply to the United Kingdom (as anyone who knows even a little history would realise).
 

OrbitalDawn

Ulysses Everett McGill
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So you mean that people realistically believe that BoJo will tell the EU to come to the table and negotiate something better, or give them the middle finger in the form of hard brexit? :D
And yet he's the one asking them for another extension on the deadline, which they won't be granting.

What some people believe and what is reality are two different things. Johnson is quite comfortable lying rapaciously, of course.

Some more porkies he's been telling.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48736975
 

Gingerbeardman

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And yet he's the one asking them for another extension on the deadline, which they won't be granting.
So then it's the middle finger and hard Brexit, and BoJo has the cover of having tried to be reasonable with the EU. What's the problem?

What some people believe and what is reality are two different things. Johnson is quite comfortable lying rapaciously, of course.
So is Trump. Does that mean he hasn't been implementing his agenda?

Don't care. BoJo knows very well what the Brexit party means if he doesn't actually deliver Brexit.
 

OrbitalDawn

Ulysses Everett McGill
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So then it's the middle finger and hard Brexit, and BoJo has the cover of having tried to be reasonable with the EU. What's the problem?
"Reasonable", lol. By lying and making false promises, and then asking the EU for another extension, and then pretending hard Brexit is him giving them the finger? Sure, sure. :ROFL:

Gingerbeardman said:
Don't care. BoJo knows very well what the Brexit party means if he doesn't actually deliver Brexit.
Oh, I'm sure you'll pretend to care if someone doing something you don't like. ;)
 

Gingerbeardman

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"Reasonable", lol. By lying and making false promises, and then asking the EU for another extension, and then pretending hard Brexit is him giving them the finger? Sure, sure. :ROFL:
#5372

You seem to think that BoJo's priority is to make you happy.

Oh, I'm sure you'll pretend to care if someone doing something you don't like. ;)
Perhaps, but I rather doubt any of those instances will boil down to "Politician [x] is a habitual liar".
 

NarrowBandFtw

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I'm surprised you guys take that seriously. They're just playing chicken, as soon as Britain seriously start a hard no deal exit, they'll want to negotiate again.
shhhhh, that's the elephant in the room, nobody is supposed to mention it

it's not like the EU has shown any signs at all that they will fold if the UK calls their bluff, they certainly have not:
- moved their supposed immovable hard deadline for brexit ... twice
- got their own court, without UK solicitation, to proclaim the UK may revoke article 50 unilaterally
- revealed that automation on the Irish border is in fact possible despite previously saying the opposite

no signs at all that they'll fold, no ways
 

noxibox

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Was the deadline ever immovable?

Unless there is an election and some party happy to leave without a deal gets power a no deal exit seems unlikely.

ECJ ruling on Article 50
The ECJ was responding to a reference from the Court of Session, Scotland’s highest civil court. Several parliamentarians had taken a case to the Scottish court, seeking a declaration on “whether, when and how” the UK’s Article 50 notification can be unilaterally revoked.
Of course there's technology for the Irish border - that doesn't mean it will work. So is there a current working example? Because the EU has never claimed the backstop would or should be permanent. If the technology exists now and is in operation on either the Irish border or some other border and can be quickly implemented for the Irish border then no backstop will be needed. In that case no-one would object to exiting right now with the backstop as part of the agreement because the backstop will be gone in a matter of days, if not hours, once this working technology solution is quickly implemented.

So it does appear there are no signs they'll fold.
 
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