The Brexit Thread

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

Interesting fact from the FT: It's Nissan's most efficient plant outside Japan.

 

[Spizz]

Stumbled across a tweet discussing how the last 40 years has seen a compete about turn with the UKs position in the EU. Here’s an interesting part of the Labour manifesto for the 1983 general election.

Those were the days when arch capitalist Thatcher and her Tories were pro Europe,

And arch socialist/communist Tony Benn and his Labour chums were anti Europe.

Funny how things change. But I guess Thatcher would have led the charge back then if her finances were under threat like her fellow Tories were now.

As I said earlier, amazing how the establishment have made this out to be a victory for the working class and the man in the street.

 

[konfab]

As I said earlier, amazing how the establishment have made this out to be a victory for the working class and the man in the street.

It is if you understand economics.

Actual free trade policies, not the regulated Euro-trash-banana-size-guidelines that the EU implements help the working class out immensely in the long run.

Which is exactly what Boris Johnson is going to do.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1224300326582390785

 

[The Voice]

I don't think you've got that right.

Any EU citizen currently in the UK (and who has entered before 31 December 2020) needs to apply to the EU Settlement Scheme, and has until *correction* 30 June 2021 to do so.

 

[Dave]

Any EU citizen currently in the UK (and who has entered before 31 December 2020) needs to apply to the EU Settlement Scheme, and has until *correction* 30 June 2021 to do so.

Yep, 30th June 2021 is the cut off.

Apply to the EU Settlement Scheme (settled and pre-settled status)

The EU Settlement Scheme for EU citizens and their families to remain in the UK after it leaves the EU ('Brexit'): who's eligible, how to apply, how much it costs.

www.gov.uk

 

[buka001]

It is if you understand economics.

Actual free trade policies, not the regulated Euro-trash-banana-size-guidelines that the EU implements help the working class out immensely in the long run.

Which is exactly what Boris Johnson is going to do.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1224300326582390785

The irony of championing free trade, by pulling out of a free trade union, after 43 years, to negotiate from scratch, under the risk of incurring tariffs or other related costs and additional requirements a brand new trade deal.

I would love to see what specific EU policies led to the impoverishment of any place in Britain. Further to that, what are the new policies from Boris, that will lead to the economic resurgence of these places?

Having read summaries of the EU's Negotiating Mandate that was released today, seems to show there will be long protracted talks.

Gibraltar being made a bone of contention.

Level Playing Field rules seem to be the most serious point that the EU will stress. Having bolded this section in their document.

 

[konfab]

The irony of championing free trade, by pulling out of a free trade union, after 43 years, to negotiate from scratch, under the risk of incurring tariffs or other related costs and additional requirements a brand new trade deal.

The "free trade union" that imposes tariffs on everyone not in the union or under a trade deal. You calling it irony in the same sentence where you are demonstrating that the EU engages in protectionism is next level irony...

I suppose the "free" in free trade means to you the same it does with "free healthcare"?

Further to that, what are the new policies from Boris, that will lead to the economic resurgence of these places?

If you go on what that speech is going on, he would just set zero(or near zero) tariffs on all imported products for any country that wants to sell to the UK.

 

[buka001]

The "free trade union" that imposes tariffs on everyone not in the union or under a trade deal. You calling it irony in the same sentence where you are demonstrating that the EU engages in protectionism is next level irony...

I suppose the "free" in free trade means to you the same it does with "free healthcare"?


If you go on what that speech is going on, he would just set zero(or near zero) tariffs on all imported products for any country that wants to sell to the UK.

I am sure Welsh sheep farmers are overly excited for the tariff and quota free lamb from New Zealand that will flood through. Is this how Boris plans to alleviate poverty, by impoverishing Welsh sheep farmers?

Who needs food security anyway? It is not like it is of any strategic value for a country.

 

[konfab]

I am sure Welsh sheep farmers are overly excited for the tariff and quota free lamb from New Zealand that will flood through. Is this how Boris plans to alleviate poverty, by impoverishing Welsh sheep farmers?

Who needs food security anyway? It is not like it is of any strategic value for a country.

You now have done a 180 degree turn because now you are saying that under the EU, the UK was being protectionist. Which isn't free trade.

The UK is already a net importer of food. Them being dependant on a wide variety of countries around the world rather than a single economic bloc is much better for food security. Food security is best done by putting in good policies like mechanisation support and things like that. Protecting it with tariffs or subsidies is a bad idea.

And the EU has done far more to hurt welsh sheep farmers with their 40% tarrifs on lamb than any tarrfis set by the UK government.

 

[AlmightyBender]

I would love to see what specific EU policies led to the impoverishment of any place in Britain. Further to that, what are the new policies from Boris, that will lead to the economic resurgence of these places?

Specifics? How dare you Buka!? You are being unreasonable in your request!

The plan is simple:
1: pray to Smith and Friedman daily
???????
3: profit

 

[Pitbull]

Still crying about Brexit?

It's done lads... get on with life

 

[buka001]

You now have done a 180 degree turn because now you are saying that under the EU, the UK was being protectionist. Which isn't free trade.

The UK is already a net importer of food. Them being dependant on a wide variety of countries around the world rather than a single economic bloc is much better for food security. Food security is best done by putting in good policies like mechanisation support and things like that. Protecting it with tariffs or subsidies is a bad idea.

And the EU has done far more to hurt welsh sheep farmers with their 40% tarrifs on lamb than any tarrfis set by the UK government.

You have to be incredibly naive if you think one can have unlimited free trade without a degree of protectionism. The world has moved on from the 1600's.

Boris would be voted out in months, if several industries collapse due to the flooding of cheaper, high volume inputs. Chinese steel would wipe the struggling steel industry off the map.

So by means of balancing the needs of your internal producers through quotas you can seek a balance.

The UK got food from all over the world, tariff free because of its membership to the EU, which had used its collective economic bargaining power to negotiate deals that were at the interest of its members.

The 40% tariff on lamb is WTO, not EU.

The UK exports 35% of its lamb. 93% of that went to the EU, tariff free.

 

[konfab]

Specifics? How dare you Buka!? You are being unreasonable in your request!

The plan is simple:
1: pray to Smith and Friedman daily
???????
3: profit

Praying doesn't work.
Implementing free trade and free market policies does. And they have done more to help the poor of the world than any other concept in human history.

I can provide all the evidence in the world to you about free trade, but because it goes against the progressive ideology, you won't listen.

 

[konfab]

You have to be incredibly naive if you think one can have unlimited free trade without a degree of protectionism. The world has moved on from the 1600's.

All of the gains in world prosperity have come from getting rid of protectionism. Every time. No exceptions.

The 40% tariff on lamb is WTO, not EU.

Did the Guardian tell you that?

The WTO is the guideline that sets the rules. All it says is that the EU has to set tarrfis at the rate of their most favoured nation. They are still in control of all the tarrifs bucko. If you set a 40% tarrif on anything, you don't care about free trade. Finish and klaar.

 

[buka001]

All of the gains in world prosperity have come from getting rid of protectionism. Every time.



Did the Guaridan tell you that

The WTO is the guideline that sets the rules. All it says is that the EU has to set tarrfis at the rate of their most favoured nation. They are still in control of all the tarrifs bucko. If you set a 40% tarrif on anything, you don't care about free trade. Finish and klaar.

No - the AHDB told me.

I personally disagree with any forms of trade protectionism. However, my view is somewhat tempered by the complex balancing act and pragmatic options that governments have to play.

Welsh sheep farmers have had fabulous access to sell their lamb tariff free, while being soundly protected by the EU's lamb quotas from Australia and New Zealand. Opening the flood gates will inadvertently lead to losses in that sector. How much loss is Boris Johnson willing to bare? Similarly to steel.

Hell, even reading the EU Negotiating Mandate indicates that UK trucking companies will have to downsize if the point about how goods will be transported within the EU, from the UK, gets accepted as is in the trade deal.

But again, political pragmatism wins out and I have yet to see a politician sacrifice their party in the name of getting cheap foreign exports at the expense of local suppliers and producers. The votes come from within, not from a Chinese steel manufacturer.

The UK cannot have it's bread buttered on both sides. It cannot in one breath speak of a resurgent UK industry, while opening itself up to a Utopian model of free trade. Something will give.

A look at countries with the highest amount of protectionist policies are curiously the most economically powerful.

Strange how pragmatic polices seem to work more effectively than those Utopian ideals.

 

[rietrot]

No - the AHDB told me.

I personally disagree with any forms of trade protectionism. However, my view is somewhat tempered by the complex balancing act and pragmatic options that governments have to play.

Welsh sheep farmers have had fabulous access to sell their lamb tariff free, while being soundly protected by the EU's lamb quotas from Australia and New Zealand. Opening the flood gates will inadvertently lead to losses in that sector. How much loss is Boris Johnson willing to bare? Similarly to steel.

Hell, even reading the EU Negotiating Mandate indicates that UK trucking companies will have to downsize if the point about how goods will be transported within the EU, from the UK, gets accepted as is in the trade deal.

But again, political pragmatism wins out and I have yet to see a politician sacrifice their party in the name of getting cheap foreign exports at the expense of local suppliers and producers. The votes come from within, not from a Chinese steel manufacturer.

The UK cannot have it's bread buttered on both sides. It cannot in one breath speak of a resurgent UK industry, while opening itself up to a Utopian model of free trade. Something will give.

A look at countries with the highest amount of protectionist policies are curiously the most economically powerful.

Strange how pragmatic polices seem to work more effectively than those Utopian ideals.

View attachment 778482

Lol since 2008-2013 on your map.

Do you realise how ridiculous that is.

 

[buka001]

Lol since 2008-2013 on your map.

Do you realise how ridiculous that is.

Yes because since 2013, the USA has become a basket case of the world. The Congo surged up in the rankings and is now the most economically powerful state in the world. Bangladesh is dominating Asia and Europe as it ahs become the new China.

Japan and South Korea are now deserts, having been completely depopulated since the great economic crash of 2014. All their citizens now live in the 2nd most economically powerful country, Zimbabwe.

 

[konfab]

Yes because since 2013, the USA has become a basket case of the world. The Congo surged up in the rankings and is now the most economically powerful state in the world. Bangladesh is dominating Asia and Europe as it ahs become the new China.

Japan and South Korea are now deserts, having been completely depopulated since the great economic crash of 2014. All their citizens now live in the 2nd most economically powerful country, Zimbabwe.

Why don't we look at something a little more objective and easier to understand (I can't really make out Mauritus on that map for example).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tariff_rate

 

[buka001]

Why don't we look at something a little more objective and easier to understand (I can't really make out Mauritus on that map for example).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tariff_rate

Does that account for quotas and other protectionist polices?

I sourced that from Global Trade Alert who are very anti Protectionism. You would love them.

They view the subject as a whole by analysing specific trade policies each country has and how free or protectionist, it is.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

The irony of championing free trade, by pulling out of a free trade union, after 43 years, to negotiate from scratch, under the risk of incurring tariffs or other related costs and additional requirements a brand new trade deal.

I would love to see what specific EU policies led to the impoverishment of any place in Britain. Further to that, what are the new policies from Boris, that will lead to the economic resurgence of these places?

Having read summaries of the EU's Negotiating Mandate that was released today, seems to show there will be long protracted talks.

Gibraltar being made a bone of contention.

Level Playing Field rules seem to be the most serious point that the EU will stress. Having bolded this section in their document.

The EU is not just a free trade area now is it?

Aren't you happy now your taxes aren't going to subsidise militant French farmers?