The Brexit Thread

[The Voice]

Didn't Honda already decide to close their plant in Swindon?

Yep, closing in July this year:

Swindon Honda closure date 'set in stone'

Local authorities met with Honda for clarity on the future of the Swindon site.

www.bbc.co.uk

Again, has more to do with worldwide slump in car sales, and the move to EVs, than Brexit.

 

[buka001]

Yikes!

British business faces £7bn red tape bill under Brexit border plan
Government’s ‘new start’ will generate 215m customs declarations a year and need 50,000 extra customs agents.

British business faces £7bn red tape bill under Brexit border plan

Government’s ‘new start’ will generate 215m customs declarations a year and need 50,000 extra customs agents

www.ft.com

I fondly recall the so called Libertarian geniuses of this forum and elsewhere who cheered on Brexit because it would unleash the UK from the shackles of the EU red tape. Their ignorance of how trade would work post Brexit was shielded by claims of "It's just Project Fear".

Their silence on how the UK is now faced with a veritable ton of extra red tape, regulations and rules to abide by, just to have trade flow at marginally comparable rates to pre-Brexit times, says it all.

 

[Dave]

I fondly recall the so called Libertarian geniuses of this forum and elsewhere who cheered on Brexit because it would unleash the UK from the shackles of the EU red tape. Their ignorance of how trade would work post Brexit was shielded by claims of "It's just Project Fear".

Their silence on how the UK is now faced with a veritable ton of extra red tape, regulations and rules to abide by, just to have trade flow at marginally comparable rates to pre-Brexit times, says it all.

At least it’s made jobs for customs officers and tax inspectors...

 

[rietrot]

I fondly recall the so called Libertarian geniuses of this forum and elsewhere who cheered on Brexit because it would unleash the UK from the shackles of the EU red tape. Their ignorance of how trade would work post Brexit was shielded by claims of "It's just Project Fear".

Their silence on how the UK is now faced with a veritable ton of extra red tape, regulations and rules to abide by, just to have trade flow at marginally comparable rates to pre-Brexit times, says it all.

The UK is now free from the shackels of EU red tape. This is a fact.

The UK is no longer part of the EU and therefore don't have to comply with EU regulations.

If the EU is now too full of shít they can and should just go elsewhere.

 

[Barbarian Conan]

The UK is now free from the shackels of EU red tape. This is a fact.

The UK is no longer part of the EU and therefore don't have to comply with EU regulations.

If the EU is now too full of shít they can and should just go elsewhere.

In the longer term it is true, and it may well eventually turn out better for them. In the short term it's very painful.
Also, they need to go and renegotiate deals, and the other options are geographically further and could very well have other kinds of red tape. Not only that, but each of their new trading partners could have different kinds of red tape.

I would say I'm glad I can sit and watch this experiment unfold from a safe distance, but I live in ANC country and that is much more damaging than Brexit could ever be.

 

[C4Cat]

The UK is now free from the shackels of EU red tape. This is a fact.

The UK is no longer part of the EU and therefore don't have to comply with EU regulations.

If the EU is now too full of shít they can and should just go elsewhere.

Go where elsewhere? For what?

 

[rietrot]

Go where elsewhere? For what?

The rest of the world. Thrade.

 

[C4Cat]

The rest of the world. Thrade.

The rest of the world doesn't have trade regulations, red tape, customs and bureaucracy? Interesting...

And the cost of trading with nations on other continents vs trading with your direct neighbours and existing trade base?

 

[rietrot]

The rest of the world doesn't have trade regulations, red tape, customs and bureaucracy? Interesting...

And the cost of trading with nations on other continents vs trading with your direct neighbours and existing trade base?

Those are all negotiable.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

In the longer term it is true, and it may well eventually turn out better for them. In the short term it's very painful.
Also, they need to go and renegotiate deals, and the other options are geographically further and could very well have other kinds of red tape. Not only that, but each of their new trading partners could have different kinds of red tape.

I would say I'm glad I can sit and watch this experiment unfold from a safe distance, but I live in ANC country and that is much more damaging than Brexit could ever be.

How, though? This hypothetical, potential future better state is nowhere actually explained or argued for with any kind of coherence.

It's literally just wishcasting as far as I can see.

At best they can strike individual trade deals with some countries as time moves on, which in the very long-term will maybe get them some of what they had already under the EU. Though likely not nearly as advantageous because they're arguing from a much weaker position as opposed to being a member state of the most powerful negotiating block in the world.

And all the trade deals they negotiate will require them giving something up in return, which is the whole reason they wanted out of the EU, supposedly.

In picture form:

 

[AlmightyBender]

The rest of the world. Thrade.

Those are all negotiable.

 

[AdrianH]

@OrbitalDawn

How does a person gauge how good/bad these 70 odd new UK and non-EU trade deal is?

Covid has hit UK economy hard so comparing trade in 2020 beyond against past years is probably a pointless exercise.

 

[Dave]

@OrbitalDawn

How does a person gauge how good/bad these 70 odd new UK and non-EU trade deal is?

Covid has hit UK economy hard so comparing trade in 2020 beyond against past years is probably a pointless exercise.

Covid didn’t cause this, as an example

Scottish seafood trade 'grim' as Brexit red tape hits UK exports to EU

Several trade bodies are warning that UK exports to the EU risk grinding to a halt, as new post-Brexit trade rules begin to bite.

www.euronews.com

 

[AdrianH]

Covid didn’t cause this, as an example

Scottish seafood trade 'grim' as Brexit red tape hits UK exports to EU

Several trade bodies are warning that UK exports to the EU risk grinding to a halt, as new post-Brexit trade rules begin to bite.

www.euronews.com

It's time to move on Dave! Democracy happened twice, Brexit has happened, Britain is not part of the EU.

Posting articles to constantly criticize pre-Brezit and post-Brexit is to achieve what exactly? Remainers will like your posts here or on Twitter, so what, doesn't change anything, and it's unlikely to change anything in the coming years.

Would you rather want Brexit to fail so that you can say you were right all along, but at the same time cut off you nose to spite your face? Or would you rather want Brexit succeed regardless if you agree with it or not, because a successful Brexit will be better for all of us living here rather than a failed Brexit?

 

[OrbitalDawn]

@OrbitalDawn

How does a person gauge how good/bad these 70 odd new UK and non-EU trade deal is?

Covid has hit UK economy hard so comparing trade in 2020 beyond against past years is probably a pointless exercise.

You look at what they achieve, what you give up to get them, and how much trade they cover.

The biggest ones they've crowed about recently, for example, cover a miniscule % of the UK economy.

And given the best case scenario for trade deals is doing away with tariffs, they're at best trying to achieve what they already had.

 

[Cray]

It's time to move on Dave! Democracy happened twice, Brexit has happened, Britain is not part of the EU.

Posting articles to constantly criticize pre-Brezit and post-Brexit is to achieve what exactly? Remainers will like your posts here or on Twitter, so what, doesn't change anything, and it's unlikely to change anything in the coming years.

Would you rather want Brexit to fail so that you can say you were right all along, but at the same time cut off you nose to spite your face? Or would you rather want Brexit succeed regardless if you agree with it or not, because a successful Brexit will be better for all of us living here rather than a failed Brexit?

Pointing out the problems of Brexxit and how it's made things worse is a first step towards perhaps re-entering the EU at some point in the future, or do you assume that the UK could not rejoin Europe at some point in the future?

In terms of current issues, the problems of Brexit highlight just how untrustworthy those politicians are who campaigned for it by lying through their teeth...

 

[rietrot]

View attachment 1000578

This is really good, but it isn't trade that is hard. It is the weak will conservatives who are now confused about what they need to conserve at the moment in a time of change.

 

[Barbarian Conan]

How, though? This hypothetical, potential future better state is nowhere actually explained or argued for with any kind of coherence.

It's literally just wishcasting as far as I can see.

At best they can strike individual trade deals with some countries as time moves on, which in the very long-term will maybe get them some of what they had already under the EU. Though likely not nearly as advantageous because they're arguing from a much weaker position as opposed to being a member state of the most powerful negotiating block in the world.

And all the trade deals they negotiate will require them giving something up in return, which is the whole reason they wanted out of the EU, supposedly.

In picture form:

I don't know, and I'm not inclined to research it in any detail.
Saying it may turn out better for them is me saying that I don't know if the way things are now, will be the way things will be 10 years from now.

My personal gut feel (again, not based on any real research) is that Brexit was a bad idea from the start. I may very well be wrong though.

 

[AdrianH]

Pointing out the problems of Brexxit and how it's made things worse is a first step towards perhaps re-entering the EU at some point in the future, or do you assume that the UK could not rejoin Europe at some point in the future?

UK could rejoin at some point in the future, if the majority votes for this. The assumption is hoping for a failed Brexit will ultimately lead to UK joining EU again in the next few years or less. It may lead to another referendum, but it's also possible the majority vote to remain out of EU. Then what, push for a fourth vote, continue fighting against it, continue hoping for failure?

In the present though, a successful Brexit is better for the country than a failed Brexit. And just because Brexit is successful doesn't mean in the future the opportunity doesn't arise to rejoin EU. And this for me is the crux of the matter, the majority will vote in the future at some point, let the UK re-enter the EU on a successful Brexit, not failed one.

In terms of current issues, the problems of Brexit highlight just how untrustworthy those politicians are who campaigned for it by lying through their teeth...

Both sides lied, leave campaign lied better than remain campaign. Leave lied about how great and glorious Brexit will be, remain lied about doom and gloom of Brexit. If remain campaign hadn't lied and actually stuck to facts instead of fear mongering, then this argument would hold water. Unfortunately when remainers bring up this argument, it just comes off as them being hypocritical cry babies and bitter sore losers because they weren't bothered when the remain campaign lied, didn't say anything about them, didn't call those politicians untrustworthy.

All politicians are untrustworthy and tell lies, only a naïve fool would believe otherwise and use this as a basis of an argument in politics.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

Scexit?

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