The Brexit Thread

[Xarog]

Is there any reason a random blog's claims should be considered credible on this?

The comments section is filled with deranged loons it seems.

Whether its claims are credible or not is irrelevant to the discussion. C4Cat said it was "good if true". He's being challenged on his value judgement.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

This is good, if true, while May is floundering and going nowhere, at least labour is moving forward with these negotiations.

:crylaugh:

Just proving once again Labour are more comfortable with hob-knobbing with other parts of the European metropolitan elite than the working class who they (Labour) claim to represent. By the way, you do know that have been *public meetings* between Corbyn, Starmer (Labour's EU Minister) and Barnier? It's completely within the realm of possibility that this sort of thing happened.

Phrases like "standing up for your country" and words like "patriotism" are foreign concepts to Labour these days.

By the way, it is not just some random blog...it's one of the biggest UK political blogs out there.

 

[Unhappy438]

I recall me and you having a discussion and you disappeared. You now back to ride on ODs tail? (He's a big boy, doesn't need your support ) Maybe go back to the discussion you and I had and answer that instead...

I disappeared? I also recall that discussion, where i asked this:

Very specific examples have been discussed in this thread today, you can tell us with facts why the companies are wrong and just fear mongering.

And i was ignored, you're just continuing along that path so of course im going to reiterate it.

PS - I will still be pointing it out when your inevitable hypocrisy reels its head.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

'We're going to need a bigger bus' - Boris Johnson's extraordinary Brexit pledge at exclusive Telegraph event

Yes, Boris is right...why would May want to rule out a possibility of a no deal? UK government shouldn't be compelled to vote for any deal, especially if it's a rubbish one, as seems likely as the EU doesn't seem to understand what a negotiation is.

Boris Johnson has said a “no deal” Brexit should not hold any “terrors” for Britain because the country would “do very well” under World Trade Organisation rules.

The Foreign Secretary insisted that the Government remains “prepared” to walk away from Brexit negotiations if Brussels refuses to agree to a good deal but no-one should be “apprehensive” about such an outcome.

Theresa May came close to suggesting that walking away without a deal was no longer an option in her Mansion House speech last week, saying she would not be “buffeted by the demands to…threaten a walk out”.

But Mr Johnson insisted that preparations for no deal continued, and that it remained an option.


Speaking to an audience of Telegraph subscribers at the Telegraph’s One Year To Brexit event, Mr Johnson said: “I’ve never been one of those who is apprehensive about the so-called no deal scenario. No deal is better than a bad deal.

“If we have to come out on WTO terms we will be prepared to do so. It doesn’t hold terrors for me and we will do very well under those circumstances as well.”

...

Mr Johnson once again defended his claim during the EU referendum that Brexit would allow Britain to spend an extra £350million per week on the NHS, saying that the actual gross figure of British contributions to Brussels was soon going to be £438m.

“We’re going to need a bigger bus!” he joked.

 

[Xarog]

I disappeared? I also recall that discussion, where i asked this:

And i was ignored, you're just continuing along that path so of course im going to reiterate it.

PS - I will still be pointing it out when your inevitable hypocrisy reels its head.

Except your challenge is complete nonsense. It's entirely possible that someone can be pointing to true things and nevertheless be fear mongering. For example: "Omg, Omg, the leaves are going to fall off the trees if we don't do something!"

The fact that autumn is approaching in no way detracts from the nature of my behaviour. Brexit will no doubt have negative consequences, but adversity is something humans can overcome unless they're too afraid to meet the challenge.

 

[C4Cat]

In what universe is it a good thing to actively circumvent official negotiations to further your deluded agenda?!? They have no mandate or authority and cannot commit to anything tangible anyway.

It is essentially treason, are we applauding treason now? :wtf:

In a universe where official negotiations are going nowhere and the official negotiators are completely useless and out of their depth...
In other words, our universe!

 

[Xarog]

In a universe where official negotiations are going nowhere and the official negotiators are completely useless and out of their depth...
In other words, our universe!

So in the "real" world, the will of the people is irrelevant because their incompetent leaders never actually wanted to have to do the will of the people, and now to fix the situation, the people should just accept the path laid out by the paragons of fecklessness that are perfectly willing to sell their country down the river for the sake of a good PR opportunity.

It seems rather apparent that you do not inhabit the same universe as I.

 

[C4Cat]

So in the "real" world, the will of the people is irrelevant because their incompetent leaders never actually wanted to have to do the will of the people, and now to fix the situation, the people should just accept the path laid out by the paragons of fecklessness that are perfectly willing to sell their country down the river for the sake of a good PR opportunity.

It seems rather apparent that you do not inhabit the same universe as I.

How does a non governmental party working out a new UK-EU comprehensive customs union go against the will of the people?
It's not standing in the way of Brexit, the UK will still leave the EU which is what the people voted for.
This is in the best interest of the UK and since Labour in not in government, any 'negotiating' they do is beside the point - they are just showing what's possible to achieve the best outcome for both the UK and the EU

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

In a universe where official negotiations are going nowhere and the official negotiators are completely useless and out of their depth...
In other words, our universe!

So you are in favour of vigilante mobs necklacing people in the name of justice then? Cause, you know, they're only doing it when the police are useless and out of their depth ... :wtf:

 

[Xarog]

So you are in favour of vigilante mobs necklacing people in the name of justice then? Cause, you know, they're only doing it when the police are useless and out of their depth ... :wtf:

No, you see, when the cops help the crooks to get out of prison, that's not really violating the will of the people with respect to law and order.

 

[C4Cat]

So you are in favour of vigilante mobs necklacing people in the name of justice then? Cause, you know, they're only doing it when the police are useless and out of their depth ... :wtf:

Yes that's exactly the same thing :wtf:
Are you saying UK people are not allowed to talk about these issues with EU people because that is treason?
Really. What has labour actually done that's against the law?

 

[Xarog]

Yes that's exactly the same thing :wtf:
Are you saying UK people are not allowed to talk about these issues with EU people because that is treason?
Really. What has labour actually done that's against the law?

What a cretinous shifting of the goalposts. You said it was good, not that it was legal/illegal.

 

[C4Cat]

What a cretinous shifting of the goalposts. You said it was good, not that it was legal/illegal.

I didn't shift the goalposts - NarrowBandFtw did when he compared it to vigilante mobs necklacing people in the name of justice. And you spoke of cops helping the crooks to get out of prison - both of which, unlike labour talking to the EU, are highly illegal. I was pointing out the absurdity of your comparison where you made their talks treasonous. It was NarrowBandFtw who claimed "It is essentially treason, are we applauding treason now?"

I just think it's good.

 

[Xarog]

I didn't shift the goalposts - NarrowBandFtw did when he compared it to vigilante mobs necklacing people in the name of justice. And you spoke of cops helping the crooks to get out of prison - both of which, unlike labour talking to the EU, are highly illegal.

Not everything that is bad is illegal. Not everything that is good is legal. Whether something is legal or illegal has no bearing on whether or not it is good or bad.

I was pointing out the absurdity of your comparison where you made their talks treasonous. It was NarrowBandFtw who claimed "It is essentially treason, are we applauding treason now?"

What else do you call activity which betrays the very public interest you have sworn to serve? Since you've already admitted that the EU is negotiating in its own interest rather than the interest of the UK, why is the EU seal of approval anything for Corbyn and co. to brag about?

I just think it's good.

No doubt a flaw common to globalists in general.

 

[C4Cat]

Not everything that is bad is illegal. Not everything that is good is legal. Whether something is legal or illegal has no bearing on whether or not it is good or bad.


What else do you call activity which betrays the very public interest you have sworn to serve? Since you've already admitted that the EU is negotiating in its own interest rather than the interest of the UK, why is the EU seal of approval anything for Corbyn and co. to brag about?


No doubt a flaw common to globalists in general.

It's a matter of opinion whether it betrays the public interest or is in the public interest.
I happen to maintain it's the latter - it's in the public's interest for labour to show that real alternatives exist

 

[Xarog]

It's a matter of opinion whether it betrays the public interest or is in the public interest.

We have you on the record opining that the EU (Juncker) is not acting in the public interest of the UK because it has no obligation to.

That means that the people on the other side of the table have a duty to the people they represent to be mindful of this and to make sure that the British people are not taken advantage of. If they fail to do this, they have failed to do their duty, and insofar as they're explicitly trying to get the EU to come up with the "winning" solution to present to people as a victory, they're treacherous scum.

I happen to maintain it's the latter - it's in the public's interest for labour to show that real alternatives exist

And no doubt you and every other globalist remains mystified why people like Trump have started winning elections.

Actually saw a really interesting article on that today:

Regions where voters have more neurotic personality traits were more likely to vote for Donald Trump in the United States or for the Brexit campaign in the United Kingdom, revealing a new trend that could help explain the rise of fearmongering populist political campaigns across the world, according to new research published in the journal Social Psychological and Personality Science.

Researchers analyzed personality traits from online surveys of more than 3 million people in the United States and more than 417,000 people in the United Kingdom. Election data was compiled from public sources.

"Our study reveals how neuroticism or psychological hardship is shaping the global political landscape," said lead study author Martin Obschonka, PhD, a psychologist and associate professor at Queensland University of Technology in Australia. "One could also call this 'irrational' voting behavior because the surprising success of Trump and Brexit weren't predicted by models that relied on a rational understanding of voters."

https://phys.org/news/2018-03-neuroticism-sleeper-effect-trump-brexit.html

 

[C4Cat]

We have you on the record opining that the EU (Juncker) is not acting in the public interest of the UK because it has no obligation to.

That means that the people on the other side of the table have a duty to the people they represent to be mindful of this and to make sure that the British people are not taken advantage of. If they fail to do this, they have failed to do their duty, and insofar as they're explicitly trying to get the EU to come up with the "winning" solution to present to people as a victory, they're treacherous scum.

That's correct. What Labour is doing is in the best interests of the UK and it's citizens. They are mindful of it. It's the British government that seems to be hopelessly lost in all this.

And no doubt you and every other globalist remains mystified why people like Trump have started winning elections.

Not mystified, no. We are aware it's a concerted effort by Russian oligarchs and others to destabilise Europe and the US, it's been a long term development that's been underway for some time and is openly spoken about. It's Putin's explicit aim to destroy the EU and taking advantage of the gullible, the poor, the disenfranchised is one way they are doing it. Not to mention taking advantage of the sad state of affairs in UK and US politics in general. No mystery there whatsoever.

 

[Xarog]

That's correct. What Labour is doing is in the best interests of the UK and it's citizens. They are mindful of it. It's the British government that seems to be hopelessly lost in all this.

No they aren't, as per the details in the story. Which you said are "good, if true".

Not mystified, no. We are aware it's a concerted effort by Russian oligarchs and others to destabilise Europe and the US, it's been a long term development that's been underway for some time and is openly spoken about. It's Putin's explicit aim to destroy the EU and taking advantage of the gullible, the poor, the disenfranchised is one way they are doing it. Not to mention taking advantage of the sad state of affairs in UK and US politics in general. No mystery there whatsoever.

:crylaugh:

Now that's a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory!

 

[access]

Not mystified, no. We are aware it's a concerted effort by Russian oligarchs and others to destabilise Europe and the US, it's been a long term development that's been underway for some time and is openly spoken about. It's Putin's explicit aim to destroy the EU and taking advantage of the gullible, the poor, the disenfranchised is one way they are doing it. Not to mention taking advantage of the sad state of affairs in UK and US politics in general. No mystery there whatsoever.

LOL!!

a sheet with holes in it

you have been captured

 

[f2wohf]