The Brexit Thread

[f2wohf]

Not sure if serious?!? :wtf:

You claim EU members are in control of their borders, how is that possible if the EU gets to dictate to members how many migrants they should accommodate? Migrants that other members failed to keep from crossing their borders ...

So Germany tells the world: send me your poor, free meals and wealth for all!
Then the EU tells its members: thou shalt take x number of migrants

and you think members control their own borders when they have no say over an issue such as this? :crylaugh:

They have a say, they vote for it or against it.

It's 120 000 migrants to be relocated in 27 countries, it's a drop in the water. They can still refuse them but then they'll have to pay penalties.

The migrants don't come from Germany, it is meant to offload Italy and Greece (who are definitely not in control of their borders).

Who are the 120,000?
All are migrants "in clear need of international protection" to be resettled from Italy, Greece and Hungary to other EU member states - Hungary will also take its share
15,600 from Italy, 50,400 from Greece, 54,000 from Hungary, though it is unclear how many are still in Hungary
Initial screening of asylum applicants carried out in Greece, Hungary and Italy
Syrians, Eritreans, Iraqis prioritised
Financial penalty of 0.002% of GDP for those member countries refusing to accept relocated migrants
Relocation to accepting countries depends on size of economy and population, average number of asylum applications
Transfer of individual applicants within two months

 

[Pitbull]

They have a say, they vote for it or against it.

It's 120 000 migrants to be relocated in 27 countries, it's a drop in the water. They can still refuse them but then they'll have to pay penalties.

The migrants don't come from Germany, it is meant to offload Italy and Greece (who are definitely not in control of their borders).

All irrelevant now, since the UK is leaving EU.

See, brilliant!

 

[The Voice]

Same for the UK who wants in, then out... I guess they're frogs as well.

To be fair, the UK wanted into the original bloc of the 8 strongest countries. In that state, the EU makes perfect sense. But the EU ****ed up by increasing that number to over 20, and adding weaker and weaker economies which took out more than they could ever put back in, which ultimately brought the rest down. It's become a circus, and we're no longer going to be part of it.

 

[f2wohf]

All irrelevant now, since the UK is leaving EU.

See, brilliant!

UK has never been part of Schenghen so nothing will change (in better or worse).

Brazil and India are actually some of the major sources of illegal immigration to the UK.

 

[f2wohf]

To be fair, the UK wanted into the original bloc of the 8 strongest countries. In that state, the EU makes perfect sense. But the EU ****ed up by increasing that number to over 20, and adding weaker and weaker economies which took out more than they could ever put back in, which ultimately brought the rest down. It's become a circus, and we're no longer going to be part of it.

The extension has always been the plan, it was meant to be a federal Europe. I guess Edward Heath misread the manifesto...

There has never been 8 members in the EEC. 6 founding members and then first expansion to 9 members.

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

I've been doing European media today. They generally appreciate the PM's friendly tone, but are STILL asking "whether" Brexit will happen.

Lols. https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/847062223369502720

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

The extension has always been the plan, it was meant to be a federal Europe. I guess Edward Heath misread the manifesto...

There has never been 8 members in the EEC. 6 founding members and then first expansion to 9 members.

I'm not so sure. Were the people who voted for the UK to become part of the EU in 1975 really voting for the modern variant?

In the 1975 referendum, few who voted to endorse Britain’s membership of what they knew as the Common Market could have foreseen that it would, within 40 years, comprise 28 countries, 19 of which would share a single currency. Still less, that citizens of all 28 would have the automatic right to live and work in Britain, and that the institutions of what had become the European Union would be able to tell us what kind of vacuum cleaners we could buy (a trivial example of something rather more serious). Nor could they have known that within their lifetime, their Prime Minister would have to spend days and nights locked in a room with people nobody in the UK had elected asking their permission to change the rules on who was entitled to British welfare benefits.

http://www.conservativehome.com/pla...aving-but-the-risks-of-remain-are-bigger.html

 

[f2wohf]

I'm not so sure. Were the people who voted for the UK to become part of the EU in 1975 really voting for the modern variant?



http://www.conservativehome.com/pla...aving-but-the-risks-of-remain-are-bigger.html

I don't know how British politicians presented it but the goal of a federal Europe with integrated politics, economies and defense exists since 1957 and a common money was discussed since 1962 because the floating exchange rates were too detrimental to the economic integration and got a real push in the 1970s.

Maybe the British turned a blind eye on it or thought it would never happen but it has always been there.

The common money is not a new thing at all and came from the Latin Monetary Union of 1865 from which the idea of the Euro was created.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

So now other EU countries will have the same rules applied to them as the UK does to other countries.

There were effectively no limits to EU immigration but now (hopefully) there will be. That WILL reduce immigration.

This doesn't address what I said at all. You're just proving the point that Brexiteers' apparent concern about immigration is based on lies.

The majority of immigrants to the UK are not from EU countries and they've had the ability to slow it down forever, yet they didn't. And they could have slowed it down within EU rules, yet chose not to.

http://bruegel.org/2017/02/questionable-immigration-claims-in-the-brexit-white-paper/

By respecting all EU rules, net immigration of non-British citizens to the UK could have been cut by a stunning 82% in 2004-11 and also rather significantly since then. It was a UK decision not to control immigration.

 

[The Voice]

This doesn't address what I said at all. You're just proving the point that Brexiteers' apparent concern about immigration is based on lies.

The majority of immigrants to the UK are not from EU countries and they've had the ability to slow it down forever, yet they didn't. And they could have slowed it down within EU rules, yet chose not to.

http://bruegel.org/2017/02/questionable-immigration-claims-in-the-brexit-white-paper/

Poland joined the EU in around 2004. The majority of Polish expats ended up here - so many in fact that in the years after Poles had to pay double tax. Once in the UK where they worked, and again pay tax in Poland because of the strain on their home state's economy after a large majority of its work force left for greener pastures.

Blair was also quoted as saying that he had no idea so many people would start flocking here once they'd joined. I'm not so sure that he was completely oblivious, though, as there was some sort of push at the time to flood the market with cheap labour. Of course, this caused some sort of chain reaction as more Eastern European countries joined the EU. Added to that immigration from Commonwealth countries, and illegal immigration from other states - well, the border is in a bit if a shambles over here.

Now that we're officially leaving the EU, we can at least control who enters from that end, and in turn hopefully be more mindful of who comes in from everywhere else.

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

This doesn't address what I said at all. You're just proving the point that Brexiteers' apparent concern about immigration is based on lies.

The majority of immigrants to the UK are not from EU countries and they've had the ability to slow it down forever, yet they didn't. And they could have slowed it down within EU rules, yet chose not to.

http://bruegel.org/2017/02/questionable-immigration-claims-in-the-brexit-white-paper/

But even if the *majority* were from non-EU countries, there were millions from the EU which you couldn't do anything about if you were in the EU. EU immigrants are part of the immigration equation even if they are not the majority.

You can only slow-down non-EU immigration not EU immigration if you are in the EU. Yes?

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

Just to add to what The Voice is saying:

Tony Blair has admitted he did not realise how many migrants would come to the UK when he opened Britain's borders to millions of European workers.

The former Labour leader relaxed immigration controls in 2004 after 10 new nations including Poland, Lithuania and Hungary, were admitted to the EU.

He tried to play down the significance of opening Britain's borders, arguing that most EU migrants came to the UK after 2008.



However, official figures show that the number of EU migrants who came to Britain rose from just 15,000 in 2003 to 87,000 the following year. That figure increased to 104,000 in 2006 and 127,000 in 2007.

Mr Blair also made a factual error by suggesting that he could only have imposed transitional controls, temporarily barring migrants for four years.

In fact other EU nations including Germany introduced the measures for up to seven years.

 

[f2wohf]

Poland joined the EU in around 2004. The majority of Polish expats ended up here - so many in fact that in the years after Poles had to pay double tax. Once in the UK where they worked, and again pay tax in Poland because of the strain on their home state's economy after a large majority of its work force left for greener pastures.

550 000 poles in UK. Did they raise unemployment in UK ? Or are they rather doing jobs that British don't want to do anymore ? (that's what I see happening in France)

That's still less than the number of British living in Spain !

In 2005, research by the Institute for Public Policy Research published by the BBC suggested that there were 761,000 British residents in Spain.[4]

Anyway, once you don't have poles anymore, you'll still have to deal with the Indians, Pakistanis, Bengali, Nigerian, Sri Lankese, Jamaican and Kenyans.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hree-Londoners-born-abroad-areas-live-in.html

 

[The Voice]

I'm just upset that so many Romanians have come over here and taken our Polish peoples' jobs!

Jokes aside, I doubt it was ever a case of getting them over here because the Brits didn't want to do the work. They flooded the market with people who would do the work for a fraction of what a Brit would do it for.

And unemployment isn't really an issue here: it's currently hovering at about 5% last time I checked.

 

[f2wohf]

I'm just upset that so many Romanians have come over here and taken our Polish peoples' jobs!

Jokes aside, I doubt it was ever a case of getting them over here because the Brits didn't want to do the work. They flooded the market with people who would do the work for a fraction of what a Brit would do it for.

And unemployment isn't really an issue here: it's currently hovering at about 5% last time I checked.

That's what I'm saying.

In Paris, we were in a serious lack of artisans, plumbers, electricians, painters, even priests.

You had to wait days before getting somebody available to do a job and pay him a fortune.

Since the poles came, no more wait, it's cheaper and the quality is the same.

So honestly, I don't see the bad thing in people working in areas where there is a shortage (as most poles are doing).

 

[CHURCHILL]

They have a say, they vote for it or against it.

It's 120 000 migrants to be relocated in 27 countries, it's a drop in the water. They can still refuse them but then they'll have to pay penalties.

The migrants don't come from Germany, it is meant to offload Italy and Greece (who are definitely not in control of their borders).

I see what you did there

 

[f2wohf]

I see what you did there

I hope they know how to swim !

 

[Alan]

Brexit remorse really starting to kick in

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

Or this... hardly moved

 

[The Voice]

That's what I'm saying.

In Paris, we were in a serious lack of artisans, plumbers, electricians, painters, even priests.

You had to wait days before getting somebody available to do a job and pay him a fortune.

Since the poles came, no more wait, it's cheaper and the quality is the same.

So honestly, I don't see the bad thing in people working in areas where there is a shortage (as most poles are doing).

I'm all for hard-working people coming to the UK and enriching it and themselves. Hell, I'm one of them - to think otherwise would be hypocritical. The problem is that with the front door permanently open, it's not only people who want to work that have come here. It's also a haven for criminals who know that once they're here that they cannot be extradited under certain EU laws. It's the "Romanian bag thieves" (yes, that's an actual term used here), and the loads of unemployed scroungers living in Hyde Park. The people who come here solely for the benefits system and free healthcare, 1/3 of EU students simply leaving without ever having to pay back their student debt, and loads of other examples. Those are the ones that aren't welcome here.

Unfortunately, with Brexit, even our trusty "Polish builders" (also a term here - the British do love a good label) will now require some sort of work permit. Same for the bankers in London. I require a visa to live and work here - I don't see what all the fuss is about if others that have been enjoying a free ride now have to pay a bit more to continue staying here.