The Brexit Thread

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Alan said:
Nope. If you want to know why bringing up the ludicrous comparison to the rise of Nazism would be more in line with the EU bureaucrats may I suggest you read
Hitler's Beneficiaries: Plunder, Racial War, and the Nazi Welfare State by Götz Aly. It offers a detailed study of the extensive Nazi welfare programs.
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Oh, I don't know, killing millions of your own citizens seems kinda the exact opposite of welfare :rolleyes:
 
C4Cat said:
Oh, I don't know, killing millions of your own citizens seems kinda the exact opposite of welfare :rolleyes:
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It's almost as if the great advocates of welfare don't actually give a **** about the people who's interests they claim to be acting on behalf of.

With 17 million Germans receiving assistance under the auspices of National Socialist People’s Welfare (NSV) by 1939, the agency “projected a powerful image of caring and support.”[4] The National Socialists provided a plethora of social welfare programs under the Nazi concept of Volksgemeinschaft which promoted the collectivity of a “people’s community” where citizens would sacrifice themselves for the greater good. The NSV operated “8,000 day-nurseries” by 1939, and funded holiday homes for mothers, distributed additional food for large families, and was involved with a “wide variety of other facilities.”[5]

The Nazi social welfare provisions included old age insurance, rent supplements, unemployment and disability benefits, old-age homes, interest-free loans for married couples, along with healthcare insurance, which was not decreed mandatory until 1941.[6] One of the NSV branches, the Office of Institutional and Special Welfare, was responsible “for travellers’ aid at railway stations; relief for ex-convicts; ‘support’ for re-migrants from abroad; assistance for the physically disabled, hard-of-hearing, deaf, mute, and blind; relief for the elderly, homeless and alcoholics; and the fight against illicit drugs and epidemics.”[7] The Office of Youth Relief, which had 30,000 branch offices by 1941, took the job of supervising “social workers, corrective training, mediation assistance,” and dealing with judicial authorities to prevent juvenile delinquency.[8]
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What could their actual motives be...
 
Alan said:
Nope. If you want to know why bringing up the ludicrous comparison to the rise of Nazism would be more in line with the EU bureaucrats may I suggest you read
Hitler's Beneficiaries: Plunder, Racial War, and the Nazi Welfare State by Götz Aly. It offers a detailed study of the extensive Nazi welfare programs.
Click to expand...

As far as I know welfare is and has been offered by the member states before the existence of the EU or even of the EEC.

Most of the welfare is still controlled by the member states and is not uniform at all across the EU.

So speaking of EU and welfare is horses*** since it is mostly not an EU prerogative.
 
Alan said:
It's almost as if the great advocates of welfare don't actually give a **** about the people who's interests they claim to be acting on behalf of.



What could their actual motives be...
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Providing benefits to only select citizens while murdering others to fund it is not welfare.
If the ANC decided to give welfare benefits to only ANC members and also, at the same time, killed all white people and claimed their wealth to provide benefits for their members, we would not call SA a welfare state, though membership in the ANC would rise, irrespective of political belief.

By motives I assume you're referring to social engineering...
In 1933 Hitler decreed the banning of all private charity organizations in Germany, ordering NSV chairman Erich Hilgenfeldt to “see to the disbanding of all private welfare institutions,” which provided the National Socialists the means to engage in the social engineering of society through the selection of who could receive government benefits.[2] Hitler had essentially nationalized local municipalities, German federal states and private delivery structures that had provided welfare services to the public. NSV was the second largest Nazi group organization by 1939, second only to the German Labor Front.[3]
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May calls for post-Brexit transition in single market

FLORENCE - Prime Minister Theresa May called on Friday for Britain to stay in the European Union’s single market during a roughly two-year transition out of the EU while offering concessions on a divorce deal as she appealed for a revival of Brexit negotiations.

In a speech in a 14th century church in Florence, May spent much of the speech drawing on the similar values of Britain and the rest of the EU. She said if the complicated talks to unravel more than 40 years of union should fail, the only beneficiaries would be those who oppose democracy, liberalism and free trade.

But her concessions on her vision for a two-year transition period on Britain’s current membership terms, final financial settlement and legal protection of EU citizens rights when Britain leaves in March 2019 may still fall short of what the EU said was needed to move the negotiations forward.

The pound weakened about half-a-penny against the euro and three-quarters of a cent against the dollar during her speech, underlining the sensitivity of the talks to markets and firms, some of which fear Britain could crash out of the bloc without a deal.

“For while the UK’s departure from the EU is inevitably a difficult process, it is in all of our interests for our negotiations to succeed,” she told an audience of Italian business leaders and diplomats.

“If we were to fail, or be divided, the only beneficiaries would be those who reject our values and oppose our interests.”

In Florence, May drew on the history of an Italian city made wealthy by trade and banking during the Renaissance to underline her desire for Britain to become a major European trading power after leaving the bloc.

Her words were aimed at unlocking the first phase of negotiations with the EU, all but stalled over one of the most symbolically important questions: how much will it cost Britain, in hard cash, to end its EU membership in March 2019?
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More at: http://ewn.co.za/2017/09/22/may-calls-for-post-brexit-transition-in-single-market
 
Moody's downgrades UK's rating on Brexit and growth fears

LONDON - Ratings agency Moody’s downgraded Britain’s credit rating by a further notch on Friday, saying the government’s plans to fix the public finances had been knocked off course and Brexit would weigh on the economy.

A few hours after Prime Minister Theresa May set out plans for a new relationship with the European Union, Moody’s cut the rating to Aa2 from Aa1, underscoring the economic risks that leaving the bloc poses for the world’s fifth-biggest economy.

Britain has worked down its budget deficit from about 10% of economic output in 2010, shortly after the global financial crisis hammered the country, to 2.3% in the most recent financial year which ended in March.

But Moody’s said the outlook for public finances had weakened significantly as May’s government increasingly put into question the austerity push pursued by former prime minister David Cameron and his finance minister George Osborne.

The government responded by saying Moody’s assessment of the Brexit hit to the economy was “outdated” and that May had set out an “ambitious vision for the UK’s future relationship with the EU” in a speech earlier on Friday.
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More at: http://ewn.co.za/2017/09/23/moody-s-downgrades-uk-s-rating-on-brexit-and-growth-fears
 
Dave said:
Sounds like a fantastic way to crash the U.K. economy...
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Nope The Nordic countries and Switzerland are thriving.

U.K. Needs a fast break dirty or otherwise so it can start negotiating real trade deals around the world without the deadweight EU and the idiots of Brussels around her neck hampering every move because they want a juicy divorce settlement. I say stuff the EU . Leave now before the quagmire gets stickier and leaving becomes impossible as some chumps would like
 
Hosehead said:
Nope The Nordic countries and Switzerland are thriving.

U.K. Needs a fast break dirty or otherwise so it can start negotiating real trade deals around the world without the deadweight EU and the idiots of Brussels around her neck hampering every move because they want a juicy divorce settlement. I say stuff the EU . Leave now before the quagmire gets stickier and leaving becomes impossible as some chumps would like
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Do it. :twisted:
 
Hosehead said:
Nope The Nordic countries and Switzerland are thriving.

U.K. Needs a fast break dirty or otherwise so it can start negotiating real trade deals around the world without the deadweight EU and the idiots of Brussels around her neck hampering every move because they want a juicy divorce settlement. I say stuff the EU . Leave now before the quagmire gets stickier and leaving becomes impossible as some chumps would like
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The Nordic countries and Switzerland have EU and alternative trade treaties in place (Christ, even places like Tuvulu have trade treaties agreed and in place)...

I gather you don’t really understand the technicalities involved?
 
Hosehead said:
Nope The Nordic countries and Switzerland are thriving.

U.K. Needs a fast break dirty or otherwise so it can start negotiating real trade deals around the world without the deadweight EU and the idiots of Brussels around her neck hampering every move because they want a juicy divorce settlement. I say stuff the EU . Leave now before the quagmire gets stickier and leaving becomes impossible as some chumps would like
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bhahaha. You realise the UK just admitted they don't have the capacity to do that and will resort to copy pasting EU deals?
 
Hosehead said:
Nope The Nordic countries and Switzerland are thriving.

U.K. Needs a fast break dirty or otherwise so it can start negotiating real trade deals around the world without the deadweight EU and the idiots of Brussels around her neck hampering every move because they want a juicy divorce settlement. I say stuff the EU . Leave now before the quagmire gets stickier and leaving becomes impossible as some chumps would like
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Stuff your biggest trading partner. Not very smart.....

The UK is leaving the EU. There will be a trade deal. Trade deal implies give and take from both sides. There will also be trade deals with other countries, who no doubt will see an opportunity to get more concessions from the UK by playing on the fact that the UK will now have less access to EU markets than before.
 
zippy said:
Stuff your biggest trading partner. Not very smart.....

The UK is leaving the EU. There will be a trade deal. Trade deal implies give and take from both sides. There will also be trade deals with other countries, who no doubt will see an opportunity to get more concessions from the UK by playing on the fact that the UK will now have less access to EU markets than before.
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Why do so many Brexiters seem to think trade deals mean the UK gets everything it wants without 'giving' anything in return? It's weird.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Why do so many Brexiters seem to think trade deals mean the UK gets everything it wants without 'giving' anything in return? It's weird.
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I would add:

Why do so many Brexiters seem to think that any trade deal whatsoever even with Mongolia or Peru will be in place before at best 2021 ?

And that’s optimistic looking at the history of trade deals.
 
so countries will not be interested to sell to one of the top consumers on the planet
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Why do so many Brexiters seem to think trade deals mean the UK gets everything it wants without 'giving' anything in return? It's weird.
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Because they live in an alternate reality where the sun never set on the British Empire, with the result that the UK can boss around whoever they want. Meanwhile, in the real world...
 
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