The Brexit Thread

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You can blame May and Cameron for that one, how many years did they blame the EU for their own failures in meeting immigration reduction targets?
e.g. https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/may-cameron-brexit-blame-1-5423102

What puzzles me is how they intend to do now what they failed to do for years? And they have no room for error since they'll be forced to do it.

Implementing an immigration strategy and control while being the EU and make sure it works before going for Brexit would have been a much smoother and rational approach.
 
What puzzles me is how they intend to do now what they failed to do for years? And they have no room for error since they'll be forced to do it.
Brexit takes away their traditional scapegoat for their own failures, perhaps knowing that they now have to actually be held accountable will be the motivation they need to finally do something.

Implementing an immigration strategy and control while being the EU and make sure it works before going for Brexit would have been a much smoother and rational approach.
It would have been, but May is not about to admit she failed in the past by doing anything meaningful while still part of the EU.
 
It’s a pity it didn’t sell to some clever entrepreneur.

It could have made a marvellous centrepiece of a public urinal somewhere...

Or down the local pub when the dartboard needs replacing..
 
How is it "expansionism" to allow other countries to join of their own free accord to share in the benefits of the EU?



I agree that corruption (and ineptitude) is endemic within the EU, but as you yourself have admitted, the UK is part and parcel of it. Is simply walking away from it going to fix it, or is that cost simply going to be included in whatever trade deal the UK ends up having to negotiate with the EU?

As for the examples you've given, unfortunately I am not familiar with them, and would appreciate if you could provide a bit more info for me to investigate, as Google isn't very helpful. Is the "cross-border farm" referring to Slab Murphy?

I do not see it as a necessity to negotiate a trade deal with the EU. Talking in purely economic terms, I would have no problem with paying import duties to them for imports from them, and they would have to pay EU duties on imports from us. As we import more than they do, we would gain. But my objections to the EU are not economic, certainly not totally economic, as I have already said. Others who wish to leave might see it differently. That is for them.

The definitions I have found of 'expanionism' do not necessarily include coercion, military or otherwise. But surely you know that the concept of a european state is an underlying objective of the people who control the EU, which group does not include the public at large?

No, walking away from the EU will not fix the corruption in the EU. It might discourage it, but I have exposed so much of it in my career that I woud not bank on it. Even defining corruption some years ago was giving the UN a bit of a headache. As I recall all too often a particular representative would take the line that 'you can't include that: it is part of our culture to do that'. I have lived in countries where corruption was rife, and have been known to ask for my contract to be terminated when it got in the way of achieving the objectives of the project.

You ask for more details. I have to be careful here because of the Official Secrets Act. Slab Murphy was certainly notorious. I was taken to see his farm from a distance, and just doing that provoked a reaction from a hostile individual. I prefer to say no more on that. The moratorium on export certifications from Italy I should not go into as I am not sure if it were ever in the public domain. It was in the public domain that the EU found it necessary to compare aerial views of some fields to verify CAP claims. The mafia was blamed in the Press, but they are always a convenient scapegoat, so I would not know. Other types of goods have been looked at, some from Ireland. CAP on meat products is always difficult, particularly if the meat is frozen. The CAP on a container of meat can be more than the duty on a similar quantity of whisky. Cigarettes at one time were an issue in many areas, with items manufactured say in the UK being exported to among others EU countries that did not have a market within the country for it. Where, within the EU such duties were low, it was clear that the local customs staff were not in the mind to worry about the UK position. Illicit imports from the Canary Islands, which was in the EU but outside the fiscal union, was a bit of a problem at one time. I cannot elaborate on that as I was involved officially. But the press reported that the trade raised the point with the Chancellor of the time.
 
Reading the report you annexed, Mr. Kenyatta apparently did remember his name. He however certainly took the mickey.

Why do you describe that as a 'good one'? Mildly amusing, given Johnson's mannerisms, but not particularly valiant as he was not there to respond in kind. But I am sure Mrs. May will have been amused a little.

I suppose we should be glad that he felt free to dispense with the one time expected outward servility of blacks towards whites, which we can certainly do without.
 
Reading the report you annexed, Mr. Kenyatta apparently did remember his name. He however certainly took the mickey.

Why do you describe that as a 'good one'? Mildly amusing, given Johnson's mannerisms, but not particularly valiant as he was not there to respond in kind. But I am sure Mrs. May will have been amused a little.

I suppose we should be glad that he felt free to dispense with the one time expected outward servility of blacks towards whites, which we can certainly do without.

Good one because he's one of the few politicians who dare describing BJ as what he is, a clown.

He obviously knew the name.
 
I do not see it as a necessity to negotiate a trade deal with the EU. Talking in purely economic terms, I would have no problem with paying import duties to them for imports from them, and they would have to pay EU duties on imports from us. As we import more than they do, we would gain.

Would you like to hazard a guess as to who you think ultimately ends up paying those import duties that you think would be a gain?
 
Would you like to hazard a guess as to who you think ultimately ends up paying those import duties that you think would be a gain?
The end user - me. But it will be paid into the UK exchequer, unlike the present import duties, which go to the EU.
Theoretically that could be used to avoid further increases, to increase expenditure on such as the NHS or Armed Forces, or to reduce other taxes.

I have no problem with that. As I said before, for me, leaving the EU is not primarily about economics.
 
Good one because he's one of the few politicians who dare describing BJ as what he is, a clown.

He obviously knew the name.
I am not on this thread to be rude about people. Mr. J is not very much to my taste, but I see no reason to think that important. Nor, should it be the case that we agree about the EU, does it follow that I think he is right in everything he espouses. I am not into hero worship. Equally were we to disagree I would not mock him. Civilised disagreement is to be preferred, would you not agree?
 
I am not on this thread to be rude about people. Mr. J is not very much to my taste, but I see no reason to think that important. Nor, should it be the case that we agree about the EU, does it follow that I think he is right in everything he espouses. I am not into hero worship. Equally were we to disagree I would not mock him. Civilised disagreement is to be preferred, would you not agree?

I only refer to what I see in newspapers and he's been nicknamed like this to such an extent that Downing Street had to issue a statement about it.

https://www.google.co.za/search?q=b...me..69i57j0.3373j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
 
Ah, so it's reals > feels when you're criticising the left, but the other way around is okay when you're the one being criticised. Gotcha.
Lol you actually got that the right way around. Yes reals is greater than feels.
 
I only refer to what I see in newspapers and he's been nicknamed like this to such an extent that Downing Street had to issue a statement about it.

https://www.google.co.za/search?q=b...me..69i57j0.3373j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Is that your justification? All the others do it? Do you have a mind and an opinion of your own?

We do tend to say that everyone is entitled to his opinion. I would in general agree, with the qualification that opinion former must use his best efforts to get it right. Mindless opinions are of little value.
 
I am not on this thread to be rude about people. Mr. J is not very much to my taste, but I see no reason to think that important. Nor, should it be the case that we agree about the EU, does it follow that I think he is right in everything he espouses. I am not into hero worship. Equally were we to disagree I would not mock him. Civilised disagreement is to be preferred, would you not agree?
Thanks for your input over the last few pages. It's always interesting to get the opinion of someone that has experience and knows what they're talking about. I enjoyed reading that.
 
Is that your justification? All the others do it? Do you have a mind and an opinion of your own?

We do tend to say that everyone is entitled to his opinion. I would in general agree, with the qualification that opinion former must use his best efforts to get it right. Mindless opinions are of little value.

My opinion of him would get me banned if I expressed it as there is no way to express it politely.

Clown is more of a cute nickname compared to it.
 
My opinion of him would get me banned if I expressed it as there is no way to express it politely.

Clown is more of a cute nickname compared to it.

There are a few politicians in the UK who if they were to die would make the UK a far better place. Funnily enough they often get mentioned in this sort of thread...
 
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