The Brexit Thread

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NarrowBandFtw said:
Except I'm supporting a nation's decision to take control of their own destiny, the polar opposite of socialism ...
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In 3 years time when the UK is counting its losses, you will be saying "But the real Brexit was never tried before".
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
You think something like granting a multi billion GBP loan to a UK business isn't doing business both in and with the UK?

You think investment banks would not be invested in any UK companies juts because they moved their HQ?

etc etc etc

Moving your assets out of the country means very little until you detail exactly what kind of assets you're moving.
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You really dont need much details at all to realise doing buisness with a country is second prize to doing buisness in a country.
 
Unhappy438 said:
You really dont need much details at all to realise doing buisness with a country is second prize to doing buisness in a country.
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You do however need details before a number like 800 billion will be put into context, it sounds purposely exaggerated, and it probably is.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
You do however need details before a number like 800 billion will be put into context, it sounds purposely exaggerated, and it probably is.
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But what is the point of debating that? We already know that Brexit is going to be BAD. Even if it is only GBP 400 billion walking out the door, it is still VERY BAD. If their estimate was that far off, that doesn't make Brexit suddenly a good idea. It just makes it slightly less bad but still very bad overall.

It's like saying, don't worry it is good that you got into a car accident because you only lost your leg below the knee and the not the whole leg. No, it is still bad! You are just lucky it wasn't worse.
 
Ancalagon said:
But what is the point of debating that? We already know that Brexit is going to be BAD
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No we don't, all we get is news saying it will be bad, when everyone sings from the same hymn book that is your clue to become a bit more sceptical about it.

Find me a single article that even attempts to research the upside in a reasonably fair fashion? Nobody digging into potential deals that were not possible before, nobody looking at fishing quotas, nobody looking at the positive impact on unemployment figures there could be if you have a strong border etc etc etc

So yes even if this particular case was 400 billion it is worse than 0, BUT that's not enough info to proclaim it to be bad overall; if brexit opens up a path for a new business moving in that previously could / would not happen and brings 500 billion to the table then brexit is better than staying in the EU and keeping that 400 billion business.
 
What I find extremely hilarious:

Let's take Eskom as an example. Single entity with a complete monopoly on power supply. The very same people in here fully support an anti-monopolistic environment and want more players in the field of supplying power. These Remainers are now like Eskom unions :D

We can't have competition as people will lose their jobs, bleh bleh bleh.

End of the day, the UK, are trapped in the EU. The Leavers want the UK on the open market, full control of their border and in essence a competitive environment. It's hilarious to watch this and see the hypocrisy...
 
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NarrowBandFtw said:
Except I'm supporting a nation's decision to take control of their own destiny, the polar opposite of socialism ...
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noxibox said:
Well it is better than people who have no clue what socialism actually is criticising it.
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The polar opposite of nationalism is globalism.
The polar opposite of socialism is individualism(liberalism).
The polar opposite of conservativism is progressivism.

At present, the socialist, globalist and progressive ideologies are in a marriage of convenience. The problem this marriage of convenience has is that its opposite, the nationalist conservative individualists, cannot in any meaningful sense be connected to the facist movement, which was nationalist, socialist and progressive, much as it would like to try.
 
Gingerbeardman said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1070001040169320449

Being found in contempt of parliament has got to sting.
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It’s falling apart for May’s Conservatives now, found in contempt so have agreed to release the information now, then Dominic Grieve’s amendment has been passed taking away the power from the government to go to no deal if May’s deal is voted down next week with the decision of what happens next being handed back to Parliament instead.

Talk about an embarrassing day for May and the Conservatives...
 
And of course, this happened today as well.

Brexit: Britain can revoke Article 50 without EU approval, ECJ adviser says

Britain should be allowed to unilaterally revoke its departure notice from the European Union, an adviser to the European Court of Justice (ECJ) said on Tuesday, before a landmark ruling in the coming weeks.

The non-binding opinion for the ECJ comes as the British parliament begins five days of debate on prime minister Theresa May’s proposed Brexit deal with the EU before voting on it next Tuesday.

“Advocate General (Manuel) Campos Sanchez-Bordona proposes that the Court of Justice should declare that Article 50 ... allows the unilateral revocation of the notification of the intention to withdraw from the EU,” the ECJ said.

“That possibility continues to exist until such time as the withdrawal agreement is formally concluded,” it said in a statement, meaning Britain would have to notify the EU that it has changed its mind before Brexit day, on March 29th, 2019.

“The Advocate General emphasises that withdrawal from an international treaty, which is the reverse of treaty-making power, is by definition a unilateral act of a state party and a manifestation of its sovereignty,” the court also said.

“A member state which decides to withdraw is to notify the European Council of ‘its intention’ - and not of its decision - to withdraw, and such an intention may change,” it added. “It would be illogical to force that member state to withdraw from the EU in order to then have to negotiate its accession.”

The court, which tends to follow the advocate general’s opinion in its final decisions, did not give an exact date for the ruling but it is expected in the coming weeks.
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https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...ithout-eu-approval-ecj-adviser-says-1.3719490
 
Chris_the_Brit said:
Good. She's a loser...hopefully see the back of her next week...no doubt she will rumble on, like a deer in the headlight.
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The Conservatives are currently a party full of losers.

The biggest current loser is probably Jacob “cilly sunt” Rees Mogg who couldn’t even organise a no confidence motion against such an unpopular leader...
 
Dave said:
The Conservatives are currently a party full of losers.

The biggest current loser is probably Jacob “cilly sunt” Rees Mogg who couldn’t even organise a no confidence motion against such an unpopular leader...
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Not his fault many of his fellow Tory MPs are "wets" as Thatcher so perfectly described fake Conservatives. ;)

By the way, the biggest losers are people like Grieve et al. He's fortunate enough to be in safe seat, but he's essentially signing the death of his own party if Brexit isn't carried out. 17.4m people aren't going to forget this.
 
Chris_the_Brit said:
Not his fault many of his fellow Tory MPs are "wets" as Thatcher so perfectly described fake Conservatives. ;)

By the way, the biggest losers are people like Grieve et al. He's fortunate enough to be in safe seat, but he's essentially signing the death of his own party if Brexit isn't carried out. 17.4m people aren't going to forget this.
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His fault he’s such a treasonous bastard, putting his personal wealth before the good of the country.

This is how the press (even Tory sympathetic) portrays him now.

C027FE21-4E3E-4357-80EB-59FA42CB578D.jpeg
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
No we don't, all we get is news saying it will be bad, when everyone sings from the same hymn book that is your clue to become a bit more sceptical about it.

Find me a single article that even attempts to research the upside in a reasonably fair fashion? Nobody digging into potential deals that were not possible before, nobody looking at fishing quotas, nobody looking at the positive impact on unemployment figures there could be if you have a strong border etc etc etc

So yes even if this particular case was 400 billion it is worse than 0, BUT that's not enough info to proclaim it to be bad overall; if brexit opens up a path for a new business moving in that previously could / would not happen and brings 500 billion to the table then brexit is better than staying in the EU and keeping that 400 billion business.
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Maybe the reason you are only seeing articles that say it will be bad is because all the evidence points to it being bad. Brexit is going to make it expensive to trade with our biggest trading partner, the EU. You don’t just change customers and distribution overnight. The increase in import tariffs is going to drive inflation up. Developed economies are very sensitive to large spikes in inflation. It brings down govts. China and the US know that in trade negotiations directly after brexit, that the UK will be negotiating from a position of weakness. If Trump is still there then it will be even worse. They want sell us their steroid pumped chickens and their overpriced drugs. The yanks under Trump don’t do win-win trade deals. They only do “we-f###-you-over” trade deals.
 
Some big name Tory MP’s (including Winston Churchill’s grandson) voted against the government and May for Grieve’s amendment.

The 26 Tory MPs that voted to give MPs more power if May's Brexit deal falls

  • Heidi Allen
  • Guto Bebb
  • Richard Benyon
  • Nick Boles
  • Ken Clarke
  • Jonathan Djanogly
  • Sir Michael Fallon
  • George Freeman
  • Richard Graham
  • Damian Green
  • Justine Greening
  • Dominic Grieve
  • Sir Oliver Heald
  • Jo Johnson
  • Dr Phillip Lee
  • Jeremy Lefroy
  • Sir Oliver Letwin
  • Nicky Morgan
  • Robert Neill
  • Sir Nicholas Soames
  • Anna Soubry
  • John Stevenson
  • Derek Thomas
  • Ed Vaizey
  • Dr Sarah Wollaston
 
And Nigel Fartrage is resigning from UKIP :laugh:

Former UKIP leader Nigel Farage has announced he is quitting the party.

Mr Farage, as UKIP leader, convinced former prime minister David Cameron to call the Brexit referendum and then helped lead the campaign to leave the EU.

He said he was leaving UKIP in protest at the direction taken by the party's leader Gerard Batten.

He had called for Mr Batten to be ousted as leader after he appointed political activist Tommy Robinson as an adviser.

Writing in the Daily Telegraph, Mr Farage said: "And so, with a heavy heart, and after all my years of devotion to the party, I am leaving UKIP today.

Mr Farage confirmed he was quitting the party on his LBC radio show.

He said: "I have worked tirelessly for UKIP.

"I made sure we talked about tough issues, but we absolutely excluded anybody who'd ever been a member of the BNP, the EDL.

"We wanted to make sure that when the abuse was thrown at us it couldn't be possibly proved true."

He added that "a lot has changed" under the leadership of Mr Batten.

"He seems to be pretty obsessed with the issue of Islam, not just Islamic extremism, but Islam and UKIP wasn't founded to be a party based on fighting a religious crusade.

"And also obsessed with this figure called Tommy Robinson."
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https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-announces-he-is-quitting-ukip-11571722

With a heavy heart, I am leaving Ukip. It is not the Brexit party our nation so badly needs
At the Annual Ukip Conference held this year in Birmingham, I spoke at the Gala dinner. My message was very simple: one of the reasons for Ukip's success was that we’d excluded extremists and focussed on organising and fighting elections. I warned that any change to this policy would damage the party beyond repair.

As I walked back to my seat, I was met by several angry young men, red in the face and mildly abusive, who all seemed to be obsessed with Islam and Tommy Robinson.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...ing-ukip-not-brexit-party-nation-badly-needs/
 
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