The Brexit Thread

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NarrowBandFtw said:
/facepalm

Do you take everything at face value or just the things that support your own bias? Why does the EU care if May's deal does not pass? It means hard brexit becomes the default position, THAT is what the EU is scared of, more so than the UK. For all their threats and chest thumping the EU cannot have their bluff called.

If the UK had competent negotiators they would have seen and exploited this fact by now, alas, competence is not what they have in this case.
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No, I don't definitely take your posts at face value.

And no, the EU isn't more scared of hard Brexit than the UK - that's the same stupid thinking behind the idea that Brexit will lead to some great prosperity.

Hard Brexit is bad for everyone, including the EU, but worse for the UK. I reckon they'd much rather have May's deal pass than hard Brexit - as it mainly screws over the UK, and them to a lesser degree than hard Brexit.

But I also think they'd be open to the inevitable grovel for an extension of Article 50.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
that's the same stupid thinking behind the idea that Brexit will lead to some great prosperity
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Just because people love the status quo doesn't mean a nation that was once an unmatched empire cannot stand perfectly well on its own without being beholden to a foreign government. The idea is not stupid, the rejection of the idea is lazy and defeatist in the extreme.

OrbitalDawn said:
I also think they'd be open to the inevitable grovel for an extension of Article 50.
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They already said so ... what is there to "think" about? They helped push the idea that the UK can unilaterally revoke article 50 for the same reason: the EU fears hard brexit more than the UK, if they were confident that it would hurt the UK more they would not bend over backwards to let the UK cancel / extend / whatever as long as it likes. You lose all leverage when you remove a time constraint, that's precisely what the EU is doing.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
Just because people love the status quo doesn't mean a nation that was once an unmatched empire cannot stand perfectly well on its own without being beholden to a foreign government. The idea is not stupid, the rejection of the idea is lazy and defeatist in the extreme.
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Yes, yes, wistful recollections of empire are all Brexiters have, apparently.

NarrowBandFtw said:
They already said so ... what is there to "think" about?
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Where did they?

NarrowBandFtw said:
They helped push the idea that the UK can unilaterally revoke article 50 for the same reason: the EU fears hard brexit more than the UK, if they were confident that it would hurt the UK more they would not bend over backwards to let the UK cancel / extend / whatever as long as it likes. You lose all leverage when you remove a time constraint, that's precisely what the EU is doing.
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You didn't read what I said - hard Brexit hurts them, too, obviously, because Brexit is bad for both. They'd be in favour of what hurts them least within given constraints. May's deal would likely have suited them, but I don't think would have had any illusions that it would pass.
 
Chris_the_Brit said:
Yeah. He is getting all shouty at the Dispatch box. He will lose it though I think.
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Probably.

What do you think is going to happen, Chris?

I think extension of Article 50 and early election called. The Tories don't have anyone else they can put up, and most probably won't support any of the looneys like Rees-Mogg or Johnson.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Yes, yes, wistful recollections of empire are all Brexiters have, apparently
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That's all you care to hear, far too easy to discard the prospects of a real independent Britain when even the strongest economy in the world has stated, multiple times, on record, that they are eager to trade with a free Britain. Seems those are "wistful recollections" ...

OrbitalDawn said:
Where did they?
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You didn't read the post to which you responded initially did you?
A special leaders’ summit to push back Brexit day is expected to be convened by the European council president, Donald Tusk
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Would they prepare for a special leaders' summit if they were not prepared to extend the deadline? No, there would be no point.
 
Watching the Health Minister, Hancock get eviscerated live on BBC2. Hilarious.

Cannot answer straight forward questions, obfuscating and umming and ahhing, offering nothing substantial in response.

I think back when I was in Std 5, we had more astute negotiators than this lot, when we negotiated woth our teachers to get a social with the girls school.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
That's all you care to hear, far too easy to discard the prospects of a real independent Britain when even the strongest economy in the world has stated, multiple times, on record, that they are eager to trade with a free Britain. Seems those are "wistful recollections" ...
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lol, the Trump admin's word that they're "eager to trade". Sure, let's pretend that means something. Is any country on earth not "eager to trade" with everyone else?

Meanwhile: The EU Is Taking an Important Step Toward a New U.S. Trade Deal

NarrowBandFtw said:
You didn't read the post to which you responded initially did you?

Would they prepare for a special leaders' summit if they were not prepared to extend the deadline? No, there would be no point.
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So they didn't "say" it, did they? You made that up.
 
How parties voted on May's Brexit deal

Here are the figures for how the parties voted on Theresa May’s deal

For the deal - 202

Conservatives: 196
Labour: 3 (Ian Austin, Sir Kevin Barron and John Mann)
Independents: 3 (Frank Field, Lady Hermon, and Stephen Lloyd)

Against the deal - 432

Labour: 248
Conservatives: 118
SNP: 35
Lib Dems: 11
DUP: 10
Independents: 5 (Kelvin Hopkins, Ivan Lewis, Jared O’Mara, Fiona Onasanya, and John Woodcock)
Plaid Cymru: 4
Greens: 1

Majority against - 230
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Unfortunately that's the only position they have ever had, and will have. :)
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Am not talking about Britain's position in this case, but May's in particular. Her hold on power was so weak that she had no bargaining leeway at all. Definitely not in a strong position to negotiate anything, let alone the future of the country.

However, I am equally miffed at Corbyn, as he has been less than transparent on which side of which fence he's sitting on. His entire position seems based on gaining power, including punishing disobedience within his own party , who are not even sure about where he stands exactly.
 
Hamish McPanji said:
Am not talking about Britain's position in this case, but May's in particular. Her hold on power was so weak that she had no bargaining leeway at all. Definitely not in a strong position to negotiate anything, let alone the future of the country.

However, I am equally miffed at Corbyn, as he has been less than transparent on which side of which fence he's sitting on. His entire position seems based on gaining power, including punishing disobedience within his own party , who are not even sure about where he stands exactly.
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Oh, right. Yes, agreed. Corbyn is a tosser who seems intent on finding the best way to make May look competent by comparison.

He's trying to make the case that they should get a chance to negotiate Brexit, as if that will somehow make a difference. The most likely outcome of that is he alienates Remain Labour supporters while Brexit Labour supporters don't like the 'better deal' he comes up with anyway because the things he wants to keep are things they don't want, meaning it's a lose-lose.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
lol, the Trump admin's word that they're "eager to trade". Sure, let's pretend that means something. Is any country on earth not "eager to trade" with everyone else?
Meanwhile: The EU Is Taking an Important Step Toward a New U.S. Trade Deal
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Did anyone ever claim they will exclusively deal with one and not the other?!? ... No btw, in case you're struggling.

OrbitalDawn said:
So they didn't "say" it, did they? You made that up.
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No I interpreted it, nothing happens without a reason. You're taking things at face value yet again which is a godawful way to get to the truth in life, but hey if you prefer the blinkers I can't stop you.
 
Now we can finally have a no deal Brexit. Everyone knew from the start having idiots that don't really want to exit negotiate a deal with the EU from a weak position wasn't going to work.

They should be negotiating business arrangements for import and export directly with business. Forget about the EU. Britain don't really need the EU.
 
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