The Brexit Thread

[Zoomzoom]

I'm entirely disheartened by how little chance there is of a second referendum and Brexit vanishing in a puff of smoke. This will go down in history as one of the more stupid moments when a country for no apparent reason just elected to do a Disney lemming and drive off a cliff.

 

[Spizz]

Lol, he got you distracted.

Generally speaking, there is a national psyche about any country and Chris just doesn't get the British one. He thinks his passport makes him British, it doesn't. When we talk about psyshe in any case.

People for example talk about the British sense of humour and there are Youtube shows of Yanks watching British comedy and just not getting 'it' (watch the Shooting Stars one, it's brilliant). And as a foreigner in South Africa, I quite often miss the familiarity of the UK and it's people. Because I get it.

I've never met anyone who acts like Chris. He's like a football fan of a political party and that blind loyalty is not something I've witnessed much, except in nationalists or republicans I suppose. People there simply change their votes if the last guy, party, government or PM did a bad job. Truth be told, apathy is the biggest winner in any election and thousands of people leave the country when voting comes around just to get away from the bullschit on TV. But what we see here is people putting party above duty and country, much like the ANC and their defense of the corrupt colleagues.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Churchill himself would have been a rebel, sacked by the PM and thrown from the party for standing up for the country in the face of political pressure. It's the bulldog spirit we hear about, and these people who have stood up to be counted rather than flip flop like their so called 'leaders' Johnson and Rees-Mogg, have it in spades.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Churchill himself would have been a rebel, sacked by the PM and thrown from the party for standing up for the country in the face of political pressure. It's the bulldog spirit we hear about, and these people who have stood up to be counted rather than flip flop like their so called 'leaders' Johnson and Rees-Mogg, have it in spades.

Because BoJo is not putting his neck on the line for the good of the country, right?

 

[Spizz]

Because BoJo is not putting his neck on the line for the good of the country, right?

I reckon he's doing it for the good of himself. Like everything else he's ever done

 

[AdrianH]

I reckon he's doing it for the good of himself. Like everything else he's ever done

Kinda like every politician? I don't trust the lot of them!

 

[C4Cat]

I think it is you who need to understand more about the UK electoral system.

And perhaps you need to understand more about democracy. You probably don't even realise how hypocritical you are being.

one person was convicted of voting twice.

One person.

Social media rubbish.

And even if it did happen more, the solution is not to intentionally schedule an election for the purpose of disenfranchising a specific group of voters, those who are more likely to vote for your oppsition. That is not democracy. And after all the huffing and puffing by the brexiteers about how important it is to democracy that the referendum be respected, approving of such a plan is hypocrisy, plain and simple

 

[Gingerbeardman]

I reckon he's doing it for the good of himself. Like everything else he's ever done

Indeed, I was remarking upon how remarkably partisan your reckoning is.

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

What, you mean actually being from there and actually having voted there?

I know enough and I also remember this nonsense story. And indeed checking now on what became of it, one person was convicted of voting twice.

One person.

Social media rubbish.

A lack of convictions does not mean it isnt potentially a huge problem - it is simply hard to prove besides people boasting on social media about it. There is nothing really preventing someone voting in the Oxford University constituency and then hopping onto the train to London and voting there as well if they have residence there.

The elections watchdog is even concerned about it

At the moment, there is no direct link between electoral registers, which are held and managed by electoral registration officials around Britain, and the online registration service now used by a majority of people.

Image caption

The two systems use different databases and cannot communicate directly with each other

Watchdog to act over double voting claims

While there is little evidence of abuse, regulator says registration system must be better co-ordinated.

www.google.com

 

[Spizz]

Indeed, I was remarking upon how remarkably partisan your reckoning is.

Look I'd rather not leave the EU, but I believe in democracy and as Brexit is the will of the people, I salute these rebels for standing behind their principles and not caving in to these bullies. As Soames said...

‘I want to make clear that I have always believed the referendum vote must be honoured, and indeed I have voted for the Withdrawal Agreement on every occasion it has been put before the house – which is more than can be said for the prime minister, the leader of the house, and other members of the cabinet whose serial disloyalty has been such an inspiration to so many of us.

So for standing up to Johnson , his puppet master Cummings and his cheerleaders like Chris (who are as blind and rabid as the Zuma acolytes), that to me is worth something.

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

And you wonder why Brexiteers charge Remoaner MPs with colluding with a foreign power. They can't even think for themselves ....

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

Look I'd rather not leave the EU, but I believe in democracy and as Brexit is the will of the people, I salute these rebels for standing behind their principles and not caving in to these bullies. As Soames said...



So for standing up to Johnson , his puppet master Cummings and his cheerleaders like Chris (who are as blind and rabid as the Zuma acolytes), that to me is worth something.

1. Withdrawal Agreement is not Brexit as has been repeated many times here and is designed in such a way to ensure easy re-entry into the EU. Soames is just fooling people who think the WA was Brexit.

2. Soames is obviously suffering from memory loss as both Boris and Jacob Rees-Mogg voted for the WA on the 3rd time of asking.

3. How are Johnson and JRM "serial" rebels? We'd have to look at their voting records on how often they have rebelled against their own party to ascertain whether it's true.

4. No less than the former Icelandic prime minister thinks Why Britain, like Iceland, will thrive outside the EU

I have no doubt that Britain will thrive after leaving the EU, whether or not it leaves with a deal. I say this as a former prime minister of a country, Iceland, which left the EU before it had even joined — and which went on to prosper in a way which would have been impossible had its application for membership been carried through to conclusion. I think Britain can learn from Iceland’s experience and find a way to avoid any major disruption when 31 October comes round.
In late 2008 Iceland suffered especially harshly from the international financial crisis. The country’s banking system experienced a near-total collapse. The value of the currency tumbled, inflation surged, government debt as a percentage of GDP more than tripled in an instant. In 2009, a new government formed by the two parties on the left submitted an application for EU membership. The rationalisation offered to the public was that joining the EU was the only way to survive.
Iceland was already a member of the European Economic Area (EEA), which facilitates free trade with the EU. But after the application was submitted, the EU became increasingly stringent regarding the implementation of EU regulations in Iceland. Many of Iceland’s bureaucrats were enthusiastic about obliging.
The elections of 2013, however, brought a halt to accession talks, and in 2015, my government formally withdrew Iceland’s application for EU membership. I had come to the conclusion that withdrawing the application was essential in order for us to be able to make the arrangements necessary for successfully rebuilding the economy.

And bounce back we did. Soon Iceland had the highest GDP growth rate of any developed country. We saw the sharpest fall in government debt achieved by any nation in modern history. Unemployment shrank and, at the same time, we invested heavily in healthcare and other essential services

 

[Gingerbeardman]

Look I'd rather not leave the EU, but I believe in democracy and as Brexit is the will of the people, I salute these rebels for standing behind their principles and not caving in to these bullies. As Soames said...

So for standing up to Johnson , his puppet master Cummings and his cheerleaders like Chris (who are as blind and rabid as the Zuma acolytes), that to me is worth something.

I'm pretty sure BoJo sincerely believes he's trying to do what's best for the UK, even if it costs him a lot personally.

You'd think you could respect him for that much at least. As I said, if you think BoJo the clown is bad, you really don't want to see what comes afterwards if these bureaucrats somehow manage to screw Brexit and destroy the public's faith in parliament as a whole.

Think man, think.

 

[Dave]

Generally speaking, there is a national psyche about any country and Chris just doesn't get the British one. He thinks his passport makes him British, it doesn't.

This has become glaringly obvious over the last few years.

 

[theratman]

Boris Johnson set to defy the law rather than ask for Brexit delay

The Prime Minister said he “will not” carry out Parliament’s instructions to seek an Article 50 extension if he fails to agree a new deal, adding he was only bound “in theory” by a law passed on Friday.

 

[Dave]

Boris Johnson set to defy the law rather than ask for Brexit delay

FYI, link dropping is considered bad form.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1170306679638036480

 

[BBSA]

FYI, link dropping is considered bad form.

I'm fully aware of that. Not sure what when wrong, I have already deleted my post.

 

[Dave]

More detail to the info in the Sky News tweet above.

Boris Johnson could go to jail if he refuses to delay Brexit, says former prosecutions chief

The former director of public prosecutions has told Sky News that Boris Johnson could go to prison if he refuses to delay Brexit in the face of court action.

The prime minister has said he will not agree an extension, despite parliament passing a law forcing him to do so.

Lord MacDonald, who held the senior prosecutor post between 2003 and 2008, said legal action would mean a court ordering that "the law should be followed".

"A refusal in the face of that would amount to contempt of court which could find that person in prison", he said.

The cross-bench peer said this was "not an extreme outcome" as it was "convention" that individuals who refuse to "purge their contempt" are sent to prison.

If the prime minister still refused to comply, a judge could make an order demanding that a government official signs off the extension "in place of the prime minister".

However the author and historian told Sky News he thought it was unlikely to get to that point as senior civil servants would refuse to co-operate with a prime minister who was wilfully breaking the law.

"He won't get any co-operation, apart from the fanatics around him… the attorney general won't sit there quietly while this happens.

Full details at https://news.sky.com/story/boris-jo...rexit-says-former-prosecutions-chief-11804290

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Boris Johnson – Brexit Hero in the Making or Goat?

This week’s Brexit drama was vitally important for Boris Johnson. And intentional or not he has maneuvered events to a very interesting inflection point.

.....................................................

But, back to this week’s events and what led up to them.

• Boris Johnson comes into power without a political mandate, thanks to the British people’s hardening around getting on with Brexit.
• Jeremy Corbyn didn’t call for a Vote of No Confidence in Theresa May’s government because Labour would lose.
• To stave off the surge from Nigel Farage and the Brexit Party Johnson forms a Euroskeptic cabinet sure to panic Remainers.
• He then steps up the rhetoric of a No-Deal Brexit on Halloween come what may.
• Farage smartly sees what Boris is doing and steps up plans for the Brexit Party to challenge a General Election fully to scare Johnson into delivering on his promises.
• Johnson then prorogues Parliament but not past the 31st of October because that would tip his hand about a No-Deal which could risk alienating too many voters.
• This forces the Remain camp to harden in its rhetoric and actions to stop the dreaded No-Deal Brexit, because they see the opportunity to do so.
• They take it and introduce the Benn-Burt Bill to force Johnson to accept an extension to Article 50. [Key point]
• He offers Parliament a General Election before the Brexit date, after the bill passes the House of Commons and sacks 21 members of his party for voting against him.
• They refuse because they would lose their majority that want to Remain in the EU.
• Then the Tories end the filibuster in the House of Lords paving the way for Johnson to swallow the bill and go to the Queen for Royal Assent.

This is the timeline. Now, this puts Johnson in charge of the situation completely. Remain has played their hand. Their cards are on the table.

Here’s the rub. The following is why Johnson can still raise the pot.

"Parliament is a law-advising body. The Government proposes legislation: The Houses discuss and amend it and send it back to the Government, which then presents it to the Sovereign — the Queen — to put into law.
… when Parliament seizes control of the floor, any legislation it forces onto the government still has to be taken by the government to the Queen. If the government refuses, it opens itself up to a vote of no confidence and the government could fall in a general election.
… Parliament doesn’t represent the current polling. The opposition is the one without the mandate and they know it. Otherwise they would have agreed with the government’s bill to call an election before the Article 50 deadline of Halloween to seize power and stop Brexit.
So, Parliament putting forth a bill that the government doesn’t agree with but who still has the confidence of the House of Commons is under no obligation to present the bill to the Queen. Johnson can simply sit on it and dare Corbyn, et al., to remove him from office.
That’s the key."

 

[Dave]

Boris Johnson – Brexit Hero in the Making or Goat?

If he pulls it off (and it’s successful) he’ll be a hero, if it crashes and causes the problems many are forecasting he’ll be viewed as a bigger failure than Chamberlain.

If he chickens out he’ll be a pub quiz answer...

 

[rietrot]