The Brexit Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
So basically you've got your knickers in a knot over nothing at all. No surprises there, how very English of you.

The funniest thing about English people going on (and on and on) about the French all the time is how they seem to lack any self awareness, of the irony there. The English are constantly going on about how awful and immature the French are, for being French and not speaking English (for example), not realising how awful and immature they are being going on like that all the time :X3:And let's be honest, Brexit itself was the ultimate act of pettiness and immaturity so the English need to just get a mirror...
The English tourists generally don't cover themselves with glory in France - was quite funny observing them in the airport - loud, brash, overbearing - doing that thing that people do here as well ie when someone doesn't understand your language, shout louder, and speak very slowly...

Can't say I blame the French for not liking them though :ROFL: :ROFL:

Saw this in action in a restaurant too - peering at the menu - "none of that foreign muck for me - 'avent they got decent British food in this place"

This is of course a very broad brush I'm painting with here...

:ROFL:

Disclaimer: I have no skin in this game...
 
The English tourists generally don't cover themselves with glory in France - was quite funny observing them in the airport - loud, brash, overbearing - doing that thing that people do here as well ie when someone doesn't understand your language, shout louder, and speak very slowly...

Can't say I blame the French for not liking them though :ROFL: :ROFL:

Saw this in action in a restaurant too - peering at the menu - "none of that foreign muck for me - 'avent they got decent British food in this place"

This is of course a very broad brush I'm painting with here...

:ROFL:

Disclaimer: I have no skin in this game...
Remember them kicking off during the Euros in 2016, too. Had a real go of it just because it was in France. But the yobs do that no matter where in the world they go, it's unavoidable, really. Not all British are yobs, but all yobs are British, mind you.

Most recently, it was all because of WW2. The British didn't take kindly to their closest European neighbours throwing up the white flag to the Nazis so easily, and effectively dropping them deep into the war (because after France, England was the next target).
 
The English tourists generally don't cover themselves with glory in France - was quite funny observing them in the airport - loud, brash, overbearing - doing that thing that people do here as well ie when someone doesn't understand your language, shout louder, and speak very slowly...

I find the English are loud and brash all over, even when they come to your door. They remind of the male Afrikaner after a brandy or two!
 
I find the English are loud and brash all over, even when they come to your door. They remind of the male Afrikaner after a brandy or two!
Ahem.

Karate juice does change people. But some of us can handle more than others, though.
 
the EU court has no powers to enforce a damn thing at all anymore, there is no point to run to them, deal with it

No power other than the legal powers mandated in the Withdrawal Agreement and no point other than you being wrong?

Sometimes its best to just hold your hands up and say the article misled you, it’s better than continuing to dig when the water is already filling the hole you’re digging...

1615405012843.jpeg
 
No power other than the legal powers mandated in the Withdrawal Agreement and no point other than you being wrong?
oh silly naive rabbit, let's play this out ... a legal agreement, ruled on by a court with no standing, and the punishment is what?

a fine? why would they ever pay it?
sanctions? courts can't make those happen

what possible punishment can the EU court hand out to give the legal agreement ANY value WHATSOEVER?

yeah, that's right, none ;)
 
oh silly naive rabbit, let's play this out ... a legal agreement, ruled on by a court with no standing, and the punishment is what?

a fine? why would they ever pay it?
sanctions? courts can't make those happen

The same punishments and sanctions that were available to the court pre-Brexit. I seriously thought you were logical enough to understand the legal positions.

As far as Northern Ireland is concerned there is virtually no change in the jurisdiction of the European Court.

Just own the mistake and maybe don’t rely on ZeroHedge quite so much?
 
oh silly naive rabbit, let's play this out ... a legal agreement, ruled on by a court with no standing, and the punishment is what?

a fine? why would they ever pay it?
sanctions? courts can't make those happen

what possible punishment can the EU court hand out to give the legal agreement ANY value WHATSOEVER?

yeah, that's right, none ;)
They will force the UK to hand over their vaccines as punishment...oh wait...they already tried that.
 
@NarrowBandFtw @Dave

The Court of Justice of the EU (CJEU) interprets EU law. Although the UK has left the EU the CJEU will continue to have jurisdiction over some matters affecting the UK during the transition period, and beyond.

 
@NarrowBandFtw @Dave




I know it still has jurisdiction over the UK for various things for some time still, but in an effort to keep it simple kept the discussion to the Northern Ireland Withdrawal Agreement as that is what was being discussed in the (extremely flawed and incorrect) ZeroHedge article NBFTW posted.

A lot of legal minds are saying that the UK as a whole may be within the jurisdiction of the CJEU for the foreseeable future.
 
I know it still has jurisdiction over the UK for various things for some time still, but in an effort to keep it simple kept the discussion to the Northern Ireland Withdrawal Agreement as that is what was being discussed in the (extremely flawed and incorrect) ZeroHedge article NBFTW posted.

A lot of legal minds are saying that the UK as a whole may be within the jurisdiction of the CJEU for the foreseeable future.

Well, according to what I posted unless I am misunderstanding, the CJEU will only handle matters relating to EU law interpretion and violation of EU laws and clauses within the Withdrawal Agreement.

It does beg the question though much like @NarrowBandFtw stated, what real power with regards to punishment can the CJEU court hand down into UK? I would presume it would probably only be able to punish UK financially in order for UK to keep the Brexit deal intact, or totally cancel the Brexit agreement, or approach the international courts?
 
The English tourists generally don't cover themselves with glory in France - was quite funny observing them in the airport - loud, brash, overbearing - doing that thing that people do here as well ie when someone doesn't understand your language, shout louder, and speak very slowly...

Can't say I blame the French for not liking them though :ROFL: :ROFL:

Saw this in action in a restaurant too - peering at the menu - "none of that foreign muck for me - 'avent they got decent British food in this place"

This is of course a very broad brush I'm painting with here...

:ROFL:

Disclaimer: I have no skin in this game...

Had a pretty special export group here two years back.

 
Well, according to what I posted unless I am misunderstanding, the CJEU will only handle matters relating to EU law interpretion and violation of EU laws and clauses within the Withdrawal Agreement.

It will hold jurisdiction over anything relating to Northern Ireland, it’s in the Protocol on Northern Ireland I posted earlier.

Article 12.4

As regards the second subparagraph of paragraph 2 of this Article, Article 5 and Articles 7 to 10, the institutions, bodies, offices, and agencies of the Union shall in relation to the United Kingdom and natural and legal persons residing or established in the territory of the United Kingdom have the powers conferred upon them by Union law. In particular, the Court of Justice of the European Union shall have the jurisdiction provided for in the Treaties in this respect. The second and third paragraphs of Article 267 TFEU shall apply to and in the United Kingdom in this respect.

12.7

7. In cases brought before the Court of Justice of the European Union pursuant to paragraph 4:
(a) the United Kingdom may participate in the proceedings before the Court of Justice of the European Union in the same way as a Member State

Article 267 TFEU
Article 267

(ex Article 234 TEC)

The Court of Justice of the European Union shall have jurisdiction to give preliminary rulings concerning:

(a) the interpretation of the Treaties;

(b) the validity and interpretation of acts of the institutions, bodies, offices or agencies of the Union;

Where such a question is raised before any court or tribunal of a Member State, that court or tribunal may, if it considers that a decision on the question is necessary to enable it to give judgment, request the Court to give a ruling thereon.

Where any such question is raised in a case pending before a court or tribunal of a Member State against whose decisions there is no judicial remedy under national law, that court or tribunal shall bring the matter before the Court.

If such a question is raised in a case pending before a court or tribunal of a Member State with regard to a person in custody, the Court of Justice of the European Union shall act with the minimum of delay.

It does beg the question though much like @NarrowBandFtw stated, what real power with regards to punishment can the CJEU court hand down into UK?

Same as prior to Brexit, financially or via targeted sanctions or tariffs on goods.

Look at what was threatened when Hungary and Poland were supposedly in breach of EU rules.
 
Last edited:
It will hold jurisdiction over anything relating to Northern Ireland, it’s in the Protocol on Northern Ireland I posted earlier.

Article 12.4



12.7



Article 267 TFEU




Same as prior to Brexit, financially or via targeted sanctions or tariffs on goods.

Look at what was threatened when Hungary and Poland were supposedly in breach of EU rules.
The Poland thing quickly went away when they demanded reparations for WW2, though. Wonder if the UK can do something similar?
 
Same as prior to Brexit, financially or via targeted sanctions or tariffs on goods.

Look at what was threatened when Hungary and Poland were supposedly in breach of EU rules.
not the same at all, prior to brexit with most EU laws automatically inscribed in UK law it would become messy really quickly if the UK played hardball, hell the EU could take it to a UK court and win pretty quickly

post-brexit: the consequences of breaking contract comes down to diplomatic sanctions / recourse and whether the UK cares enough about the penalty applied to budge, the EU court has no real effect at all other than giving the EU parliament a piece of paper to justify any counter action they choose to take

though good effort on your part repeating that ZH angle ad nauseum when my initial post was based on the original article they quoted and none of their own words at all :ROFL:
 
A lot of very good points made in this opinion piece.
How Britain Became the Dumbest Society in the World

Not so long ago, Britain was the envy of the world. It had the world’s best healthcare system. You could walk down the street, go to the doctor, and literally have the world’s best healthcare on your doorstep. It had the world’s finest public broadcaster — the BBC. The middle class was expanding, growing in wealth and happiness. It was part of the world’s most successful political union, the EU — and Brits had the right to live and work across Europe, something that many Americans would kill for. Britain, too, had a special relationship, as it came to be called, with America — cousins in whiteness, in Anglo-ness, friends and allies and partners. Britain had one of the world’s highest qualities of life, period. It was a gentle, intelligent, warm, friendly, and wealthy society.
That was just…a decade or two ago. And now? Britain is a failing state. Don’t take it from me, take it from former Prime Minister Gordon Brown. It’s a nation that imploded into stupidity, ugliness, hate, brutality, ignorance, greed, racism — all of which were on vivid display as Meghan Markle recounted how badly she’d been treated.

So what happened to Britain? Nationalism did — it’s selfishness, arrogance, triumphalism. It’s bigotry, prejudice, and racism, too. Britain stopped wanting to be part of the modern world, an equal, a partner, a friend. It wanted to rule the world again. And so now…it isn’t part of the modern world, and it has no one left to rule, either.
The story goes like this. After the financial crisis in 2007, Britain had just elected a conservative government. They sold the population the foolish myth that they were “broke” — and now belts needed to be tightened. Never mind the fact that the correct way to respond to a financial crisis is to stimulate the economy. Instead, Britain began a savage course of austerity. All those famous public services — the NHS, the BBC, and so on — were slashed. And then slashed again. And then eviscerated.
And so soon enough, what was eminently predictable came to pass. One of the few trustworthy and useful findings in economics is that after financial crises, countries tend to swing hard, hard right: nationalism erupts. Why? Because governments usually respond the wrong way, choosing austerity over investment. People grow poorer. Their social contracts wither. They begin to live in anxiety, fear, and despair.

And before you know it, demagogues are blaming their woes on foreigners, immigrants, minorities — anyone remotely alien or other. “America First!” “Britain for the British!” Nationalism happens by way of financial crisis become economic ruin, via the invisible fist of austerity. And as people grow poorer, they grow more ignorant, violence, brutal, selfish, and careless.
So which minority did Brits scapegoat for their woes? In America, it was Mexicans and Latinos that Trump scapegoated for the problems of the “real” American. In Britain, incredibly, it was Europeans.
We put advantage and gain before friendship and community.” But none of that is true. What proves it? The EU does. It’s vastly more successful as a society than Britain or America. The European Miracle — people enjoying the highest living standards in history, in one lifetime — is powerfully real. It proves that nationalism is the biggest lie of all.
If you live in London, you might not know it, but you’re going to be getting American style healthcare bills soon. That’s because GP practices in London have been sold off to an American “health insurer.” That’s going to make Americans chuckle — because it’s crazy. Brits aren’t going to know what hit them when they get a bill for, say, $4000 for an X-ray. But of course that’s what’s coming, because American “health insurers” aren’t in it for human kindness, but for money. Who’s dumb enough to choose American style healthcare — despite having had the best healthcare system in the world? Britain is.
 
not the same at all, prior to brexit with most EU laws automatically inscribed in UK law it would become messy really quickly if the UK played hardball, hell the EU could take it to a UK court and win pretty quickly

post-brexit: the consequences of breaking contract comes down to diplomatic sanctions / recourse and whether the UK cares enough about the penalty applied to budge, the EU court has no real effect at all other than giving the EU parliament a piece of paper to justify any counter action they choose to take

So the same piece of paper that they could get pre-Brexit, and of course the threat of some form of sanctions is far more likely now than before Brexit.

though good effort on your part repeating that ZH angle ad nauseum when my initial post was based on the original article they quoted and none of their own words at all :ROFL:

I’m sure that makes sense in your mind.

/notes the mandatory use of a :ROFL: to confirm it’s a NBFTW post.
 
A lot of very good points made in this opinion piece.
How Britain Became the Dumbest Society in the World

Opinion (utter nonsense and tripe) dismantled.

I don't know where you're getting your "insider knowledge" of Britain but, with all due respect, many of the ideals that you seem to be pointing at in British society are in fact many of the reasons that Britons are taxed into utter extortion and therefore what is making our people unhappy. The EU - what you amusingly call "the world's most successful political union" - is both falling apart at the seams, is filled with unelected bureaucracy with which no country would optionally plague themselves (we didn't even have a say on what we could manufacture our pillows out of, and we even had a years-long dispute with the EU over whether we were still allowed to sell pints of milk - amazingly, we won). The NHS is a faulty and grossly inefficient behemoth of a tax-guzzler, with many of its costs going towards administrative costs rather than actual medicine, and the budgets for which inexplicably increase year on year. The BBC, another tax-guzzler, is neutral among all this. Yet, with all this considered, the average Briton will pay approximately one third of their income to taxes whilst also suffering salaries of approximately half of our American cousins.

Now, I do not know how you can jump from vague commentary about British society and straight into the monarchy. I will ignore that illogical jump, but let's be realistic: Britain has overcome many, many more racial and other discriminatory milestones not only than America, but for most of the modern world. We are held to extraordinarily high standards of equality and, again, thanks to our overarching tax system and insane amounts of government surveillance, racism is quite literally criminal. There is no freedom of speech for us in the same way as it is in America. Yes, people have been imprisoned for racist tweets.

I really want to write more about this and address your every point, but I also just really want you to know that all of the four points you (very uniquely) portrayed as "amazing" are not amazing at all and, in fact, the remainder of your article is genuinely propagandist tripe. I'm sure that you will be able to assure people in an echo chamber that they are right, but that's all. You have a clear demographic and, hats off to you, 1,100 of them have already sucked this nonsense up.

"Amazingly", the government responded with "more austerity" in 2007. I am not sure if you are quite aware of this, but the financial crisis affected governments too. Governments also hold their own portfolio of investments, they issue treasury bonds to the general public and to investors to encourage investment into the government. The UK Government, like most governments in the world, have debts to pay too. The only issue is simply how public all of our services are, and how reliant these services are on the government. You omitted the fact that taxes increased for us all, VAT increased even more, and in fact we are still taxed 20% on most items except most common groceries, baby clothes, cakes, and a few other obscure things.

"Amazingly", the left wing supported Brexit. I suppose that has shaken your notions that the "ultra-right bigots" were the only ones who opposed the European Union, as if being able to save half an hour on travelling into France is actually worth the unexplained billions of British money that we contribute to unknown causes within the EU, and for which we have no say. It's almost as if the EU is a completely unelected, undemocratic body of people you nor I have ever heard of, making decisions that nobody cares about, in a room far, far away from the real world.

And, no, it is not "amazing" that the British believed "the Big Lies of the Right". What is amazing is that you can associate an entire region of error to a political alignment, which says more about you than it does about the British public.

And, finally, no, we are not "amazed" at your bizarre claim that the government is "cooking the books" because "trade has become too costly". It hasn't. In fact, I would rather pay taxes towards paying the EU's begrudging levies, set only because they lost the second-strongest economic power in the EU out of twenty-seven, while the disintegrating EU suffers growing discontent from nations such as Italy and even Germany. I guarantee that, in our lifetimes, we will see the collapse of the European Union. Perhaps it will be replaced with something better, but the EU is not this social democratic paradise that you seem to think it is. The EU is, I think, much smaller than you're making it out to be, since it only comprises France, Germany, and other states which simply drag the EU down and take more than they give from it. While we're at it, you seem to think that our stockpiles "will run out" since the EU is "not trading with us", which is a fable. I can still go to my local Sainsbury's and buy a bottle of French wine. When's the last time you went to a British shop? Were the shelves as empty as you seem to be suggesting?

I think you're really out of your depth with this article, and your empty, emotional commentaries on what is happening in my country are completely unfounded and fuelled by left-wing fodder, and I imagine will be consumed by the same people who taught you how to write juvenile articles like this. There is clearly no economic nor political understanding here about the UK, Europe, and the complex interrelations forged by the EU which have been brewing for around seventy years.

Stop reading about why people irrationally love the EU, stop reading about why people irrationally hate the EU, and start reading rational reasons behind both. That's your ticket to success here.
 
Opinion (utter nonsense and tripe) dismantled.

I don't know where you're getting your "insider knowledge" of Britain but, with all due respect, many of the ideals that you seem to be pointing at in British society are in fact many of the reasons that Britons are taxed into utter extortion and therefore what is making our people unhappy. The EU - what you amusingly call "the world's most successful political union" - is both falling apart at the seams, is filled with unelected bureaucracy with which no country would optionally plague themselves (we didn't even have a say on what we could manufacture our pillows out of, and we even had a years-long dispute with the EU over whether we were still allowed to sell pints of milk - amazingly, we won). The NHS is a faulty and grossly inefficient behemoth of a tax-guzzler, with many of its costs going towards administrative costs rather than actual medicine, and the budgets for which inexplicably increase year on year. The BBC, another tax-guzzler, is neutral among all this. Yet, with all this considered, the average Briton will pay approximately one third of their income to taxes whilst also suffering salaries of approximately half of our American cousins.

Now, I do not know how you can jump from vague commentary about British society and straight into the monarchy. I will ignore that illogical jump, but let's be realistic: Britain has overcome many, many more racial and other discriminatory milestones not only than America, but for most of the modern world. We are held to extraordinarily high standards of equality and, again, thanks to our overarching tax system and insane amounts of government surveillance, racism is quite literally criminal. There is no freedom of speech for us in the same way as it is in America. Yes, people have been imprisoned for racist tweets.

I really want to write more about this and address your every point, but I also just really want you to know that all of the four points you (very uniquely) portrayed as "amazing" are not amazing at all and, in fact, the remainder of your article is genuinely propagandist tripe. I'm sure that you will be able to assure people in an echo chamber that they are right, but that's all. You have a clear demographic and, hats off to you, 1,100 of them have already sucked this nonsense up.

"Amazingly", the government responded with "more austerity" in 2007. I am not sure if you are quite aware of this, but the financial crisis affected governments too. Governments also hold their own portfolio of investments, they issue treasury bonds to the general public and to investors to encourage investment into the government. The UK Government, like most governments in the world, have debts to pay too. The only issue is simply how public all of our services are, and how reliant these services are on the government. You omitted the fact that taxes increased for us all, VAT increased even more, and in fact we are still taxed 20% on most items except most common groceries, baby clothes, cakes, and a few other obscure things.

"Amazingly", the left wing supported Brexit. I suppose that has shaken your notions that the "ultra-right bigots" were the only ones who opposed the European Union, as if being able to save half an hour on travelling into France is actually worth the unexplained billions of British money that we contribute to unknown causes within the EU, and for which we have no say. It's almost as if the EU is a completely unelected, undemocratic body of people you nor I have ever heard of, making decisions that nobody cares about, in a room far, far away from the real world.

And, no, it is not "amazing" that the British believed "the Big Lies of the Right". What is amazing is that you can associate an entire region of error to a political alignment, which says more about you than it does about the British public.

And, finally, no, we are not "amazed" at your bizarre claim that the government is "cooking the books" because "trade has become too costly". It hasn't. In fact, I would rather pay taxes towards paying the EU's begrudging levies, set only because they lost the second-strongest economic power in the EU out of twenty-seven, while the disintegrating EU suffers growing discontent from nations such as Italy and even Germany. I guarantee that, in our lifetimes, we will see the collapse of the European Union. Perhaps it will be replaced with something better, but the EU is not this social democratic paradise that you seem to think it is. The EU is, I think, much smaller than you're making it out to be, since it only comprises France, Germany, and other states which simply drag the EU down and take more than they give from it. While we're at it, you seem to think that our stockpiles "will run out" since the EU is "not trading with us", which is a fable. I can still go to my local Sainsbury's and buy a bottle of French wine. When's the last time you went to a British shop? Were the shelves as empty as you seem to be suggesting?

I think you're really out of your depth with this article, and your empty, emotional commentaries on what is happening in my country are completely unfounded and fuelled by left-wing fodder, and I imagine will be consumed by the same people who taught you how to write juvenile articles like this. There is clearly no economic nor political understanding here about the UK, Europe, and the complex interrelations forged by the EU which have been brewing for around seventy years.

Stop reading about why people irrationally love the EU, stop reading about why people irrationally hate the EU, and start reading rational reasons behind both. That's your ticket to success here.
Oliver Cawthorne, is that you?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X