The Elections Thread - 7 May 2014

[STS]

While in my opinion I dont think this helps the country as a whole, why cant people realise that this is your right living in our democracy?

And the only thing that calling you an idiot will achieve is probably an entrenchment of your views.

it's a system that could work too, it works in plenty of countries, the problem here is that it won't work, for a long time. here voting has as much power as signing a petition. people are alienated from each other here, people are afraid, people assume that people vote for a corrupt government because they're also corrupt voters, when they forgo all the benefits of a top class education, constant internet access, transport to get home sooner to have more time to read, people(strangers) willing to be patient enough to engage with them and help them to understand, etc.

if i sit around a table with intellectuals and i need to vote for a boss, i will vote. if i sit around a table with idiots where half are voting for somebody that can't do a job and the others are threatening me to vote for their candidate because he has the highest odds of winning, then i don't want to be part of that system

 

[Garson007]

View attachment 109726.

Nightmare fuel.

 

[manu55]

Voting for the stoner's party

 

[GreGorGy]

Voting for the stoner's party

Which is that?

 

[DarthCat]

it's a system that could work too, it works in plenty of countries, the problem here is that it won't work, for a long time. here voting has as much power as signing a petition. people are alienated from each other here, people are afraid, people assume that people vote for a corrupt government because they're also corrupt voters, when they forgo all the benefits of a top class education, constant internet access, transport to get home sooner to have more time to read, people(strangers) willing to be patient enough to engage with them and help them to understand, etc.

if i sit around a table with intellectuals and i need to vote for a boss, i will vote. if i sit around a table with idiots where half are voting for somebody that can't do a job and the others are threatening me to vote for their candidate because he has the highest odds of winning, then i don't want to be part of that system

That is why I also do not vote

 

[blunomore]

What are the objective chances that the DA can take Gauteng?

 

[SauRoNZA]

While in my opinion I dont think this helps the country as a whole, why cant people realise that this is your right living in our democracy?

And the only thing that calling you an idiot will achieve is probably an entrenchment of your views.

it's a system that could work too, it works in plenty of countries, the problem here is that it won't work, for a long time. here voting has as much power as signing a petition. people are alienated from each other here, people are afraid, people assume that people vote for a corrupt government because they're also corrupt voters, when they forgo all the benefits of a top class education, constant internet access, transport to get home sooner to have more time to read, people(strangers) willing to be patient enough to engage with them and help them to understand, etc.

if i sit around a table with intellectuals and i need to vote for a boss, i will vote. if i sit around a table with idiots where half are voting for somebody that can't do a job and the others are threatening me to vote for their candidate because he has the highest odds of winning, then i don't want to be part of that system

Believe it or not I can actually agree with that.

Problem is that the vast majority who don't vote do so either from pure lack of interest and/or ignorance or from being utterly lazy and seeing it as a massive chore even though they get a day off to go voting.

If you genuinely 100% are not voting because you feel you are excluding yourself from a system that you don't want to partake in, then I can respect that and will reverse my statement calling you can idiot.

Sadly by default I have to throw you in with all the others who just couldn't be bothered...but at the same time want to complain endlessly about the state of things.

 

[Nanfeishen]

That "Other" option is really worrying.

I guess all the lazy non voters or idiotic ballot spoilers are in that box.

What other choice do they have ?

Is there a box marked " None of the Above" - No !

Is there a box marked " No Vote " - No !

Is there a box marked "Abstain " - No !

Is there a box marked " No Confidence in any Party" - No !

etc etc

Dont call people idiots if there is no choice other than to spoil their ballot paper.

 

[Wyzak]

What other choice do they have ?

Is there a box marked " None of the Above" - Yes !

Is there a box marked " No Vote " - Yes !

Is there a box marked "Abstain " - Yes !

Is there a box marked " No Confidence in any Party" - Yes !

etc etc

Dont call people idiots if there is no choice other than to spoil their ballot paper.

FTFY, it's called not voting at all. Why would you even bother to pitch up to spoil your ballot then? Don't waste your time and don't waste their time. Sadly, voting isn't compulsory in SA.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

where have i argued at all about SMSes or phone calls? i've never received a phone call in my life from ANY party? i haven't even bitched about the alcohol limitations because it's storm in a tea cup.

Sure, that was more aimed at others who whinge about it. Apologies for not making it clearer. You haven't provided a proper argument as to why you're not voting, or more specifically not voting DA or ANC or IFP or Agang, though.

this is my point, it's like whenever politics is raised everyone becomes rabid witch-hunters and finger-pointers. the only thing i have complained about is Ghoti's attitude on the forum and everyone's irrational conclusions they come to, such as i am not voting, therefore i'm supposed to shut up.

your argument is also flawed - i am not going to find a partner i agree with 100%, true. so i can choose between the whiney psychobitch or the cheating overweight thief? and i don't get to choose which one i want, i have 9 other people who are going to choose one for me anyway based on majority vote?

See, there's that false equivalence again. They're demonstrably not the same.

abstaining is removing myself from the system. i'm not voting for the ANC, or anyone else. i never agreed to the rules, i don't believe in the process, i manage myself quite fine. if i want to change the country, i engage people in daily life and try to improve their life, not whine on a forum and blackmail people into not speaking again

That's the thing, you're not removing yourself from the system. You're only removing your voice in the system. You're still very much a part of it, whether you'd like to be or not. You and me and everyone else will continue to be affected by the decisions we all make. You're wilfully deciding not to choose a better option because of your disillusionment over the 'system', because democracy is in reality not the idealised version you want it to be.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

FTFY, it's called not voting at all. Why would you even bother to pitch up to spoil your ballot then? Don't waste your time and don't waste their time. Sadly, voting isn't compulsory in SA.

Ballot spoiling is preferable to non-votes. If there is a large enough number of spoilt ballots that in itself signifies something worth knowing.

 

[Wyzak]

Sure, that was more aimed at others who whinge about it. Apologies for not making it clearer. You haven't provided a proper argument as to why you're not voting, or more specifically not voting DA or ANC or IFP or Agang, though.

And there you are again with your DA, ANC, IFP, Agang or nobody else attitude.

 

[daveza]

FTFY, it's called not voting at all. Why would you even bother to pitch up to spoil your ballot then? Don't waste your time and don't waste their time.

Why should anyone be forced to support something they don't agree with ?

There's nothing wrong with a protest vote ie spoilt vote.

 

[Wyzak]

Why should anyone be forced to support something they don't agree with ?

There's nothing wrong with a protest vote ie spoilt vote.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with their actions. I'm asking why they even bother to waste their own time, the time of those waiting behind them in the queue and the time of those counting the votes. If you look at past elections it's really a negligible amount of spoiled votes, and it's probably people who don't understand that you only have one vote etc.

Or are you talking about the compulsory to vote part?

 

[Nanfeishen]

FTFY, it's called not voting at all. Why would you even bother to pitch up to spoil your ballot then? Don't waste your time and don't waste their time. Sadly, voting isn't compulsory in SA.

Its about giving a voter the right to voice their displeasure, or lack of belief that any of the parties involved show any merit or worth.
Its also means that their is a specific category showing lack of confidence in any party.
Having a specific " no Vote " category means those will be counted as such and not dismissed as spoilt.
Nor will they be added to any political parties count.

 

[Sherbang]

FTFY, it's called not voting at all. Why would you even bother to pitch up to spoil your ballot then? Don't waste your time and don't waste their time. Sadly, voting isn't compulsory in SA.

How would making voting compulsory help?
I would still spoil my vote.

The reason one would bother to pitch up to spoil their ballot is simple: to show disapproval of all the candidates available.
It's a valid form of protest.
Simply not voting doesn't mean anything, intentionally spoiling your vote means you are voting that nobody is worth voting for.
In this country spoilt votes are counted so if there is a high proportion of spoilt votes it indicates to politicians that they are not representing the needs of people and change from the political status quo is needed.

 

[Wyzak]

Its about giving a voter the right to voice their displeasure, or lack of belief that any of the parties involved show any merit or worth.
Its also means that their is a specific category showing lack of confidence in any party.
Having a specific " no Vote " category means those will be counted as such and not dismissed as spoilt.
Nor will they be added to any political parties count.

Is there a specific "no vote" category? I can't recall one off-hand.

Your whole paragraph can be said for non-voting as well.
By not voting you voice your displeasure - check
by not voting you show your lack of believe in any parties - check
by not voting it also won't be added to any party - check
it's not really a specific category because there are other reasons as well why a ballot can be spoiled.

 

[Nanfeishen]

Is there a specific "no vote" category? I can't recall one off-hand.

Your whole paragraph can be said for non-voting as well.
By not voting you voice your displeasure - check
by not voting you show your lack of believe in any parties - check
by not voting it also won't be added to any party - check
it's not really a specific category because there are other reasons as well why a ballot can be spoiled.

Spolied ballots are percieved as being done by mistake or people who dont understand what they are doing.

Having a specific category marked, shows the voter has weighed up the options and specifically chosen to voice their opinion and place their vote accordingly.

 

[Sherbang]

Is there a specific "no vote" category? I can't recall one off-hand.

Your whole paragraph can be said for non-voting as well.
By not voting you voice your displeasure - check
by not voting you show your lack of believe in any parties - check
by not voting it also won't be added to any party - check
it's not really a specific category because there are other reasons as well why a ballot can be spoiled.

That makes no sense. You can't 'voice' your displeasure by not 'voicing' your displeasure.
You can't show your lack of belief in any parties without showing anything.

Many reasons one might not vote, maybe you didn't vote because you got sick, had no transport, forgot, are not interested, are lazy, lost your ID, etc. It's impossible to tell why people don't vote. Might have nothing to do with voicing your displeasure, your lack of belief in any parties, etc. Spoilt votes are counted while non-votes are not.

While it is possible to unintentionally spoil a ballot, intentionally spoiling your vote (or using the "no vote" category in countries where this option is available, not here) is the only way to voice your displeasure and show your lack of belief in any parties.

 

[Wyzak]

Spolied ballots are percieved as being done by mistake or people who dont understand what they are doing.

Having a specific category marked, shows the voter has weighed up the options and specifically chosen to voice their opinion and place their vote accordingly.

Yes if there was such a category, which there isn't, I would be able to understand the point of expressing your views. But there isn't at the moment, so I don't really see why somehow would go through all of the hassle to vote just to spoil their votes anyway and be lumped into the same group as those who don't understand that you should only vote once.