The Elections Thread - 7 May 2014

[supersunbird]

I dont remember seeing that. Perhaps you could link to it?

I will say, they seriously under performed. I was expecting 10%

For a 9 months old party?

 

[Falco]

Also remember in 2009, Cope managed near 8% of the total vote after only being around for 4 months. A lot of that vote will have gone DA this year, but the total gains of the EFF and DA and the loss of the ANC don't match entirely, so I'm quite sure there have been some more people voting this year who would not have voted for any of the above parties before.

There are more voters this year for sure

 

[air]

There are more voters this year for sure

Don't agree, while the number of registered voters has increased (10%), I reckon voter apathy will result in 2014 'Votes Counted' being slightly higher than 2009 (imho)

 

[Noseworthy]

There are more voters this year for sure

Yeah. The free borns that have no idea what a ballot paper is

 

[sox63]

Time to go back and have a good look at which policies of the ANC would require changes in the constitution. Somehow I dont think EFF wont support them if the right amount of incentive is placed before them.

But I have a feeling the inflated ego of Zuma would prevent him dealing with Julius until he desperately needs it.

 

[Dames]

Time to go back and have a good look at which policies of the ANC would require changes in the constitution. Somehow I dont think EFF wont support them if the right amount of incentive is placed before them.

But I have a feeling the inflated ego of Zuma would prevent him dealing with Julius until he desperately needs it.

The other thing people forget is that there are only certain elements of the constitution which you need 2/3 to change. All the FUNDAMENTAL pillars of the constitution (section 1) require a 75% majority vote to be changed.

"Chapters 3 to 7 detail the country's democratic system of government, one characteristic of which is the stress on interaction between the national, provincial and local levels through the mechanism of co-operative governance. Other important characteristics are those generally considered essential to democracy, such as the specification of the manner in which representatives are elected, limitations on terms of office, and the majorities required to pass legislation.

Section 74 (2) states that Bills amending the Constitution require a two-thirds majority in the National Assembly as well as a supporting vote of six of the nine provinces represented in the National Council of Provinces - these being the two houses that comprise South Africa's Parliament. Preceding that is the requirement that a Bill amending Section 1 of the Constitution, which sets out the state's founding values as described above, requires a 75% majority in the National Assembly and agreement from six of the nine provinces in the National Council of Provinces.

Serious violation of the Constitution is one of the grounds on which the President may be removed from office, also on a two-thirds majority."

Read more: http://www.southafrica.info/about/democracy/constitution.htm#.U2yM8fmSz_M#ixzz31ChTRr96

 

[Priapus]

The other thing people forget is that there are only certain elements of the constitution which you need 2/3 to change. All the FUNDAMENTAL pillars of the constitution (section 1) require a 75% majority vote to be changed.

"Chapters 3 to 7 detail the country's democratic system of government, one characteristic of which is the stress on interaction between the national, provincial and local levels through the mechanism of co-operative governance. Other important characteristics are those generally considered essential to democracy, such as the specification of the manner in which representatives are elected, limitations on terms of office, and the majorities required to pass legislation.

Section 74 (2) states that Bills amending the Constitution require a two-thirds majority in the National Assembly as well as a supporting vote of six of the nine provinces represented in the National Council of Provinces - these being the two houses that comprise South Africa's Parliament. Preceding that is the requirement that a Bill amending Section 1 of the Constitution, which sets out the state's founding values as described above, requires a 75% majority in the National Assembly and agreement from six of the nine provinces in the National Council of Provinces.

Serious violation of the Constitution is one of the grounds on which the President may be removed from office, also on a two-thirds majority."

Read more: http://www.southafrica.info/about/democracy/constitution.htm#.U2yM8fmSz_M#ixzz31ChTRr96

Thanks for the info. Never knew that. ANC + EFF doesn't go anywhere near 75%. So that's good.

 

[Wyzak]

Is taking farms without paying for them a founding value of the constitution? probably not, so only 2/3 required - check, and 6/9 check.

 

[Dames]

Is taking farms without paying for them a founding value of the constitution? probably not, so only 2/3 required - check, and 6/9 check.

Except that this is in section 1 of the constitution.

"25. Property.-(1) No one may be deprived of property except in terms of law of gen-
eral application, and no law may permit arbitrary deprivation of property.
(2) Property may be expropriated only in terms of law of general application--
(a) for a public purpose or in the public interest; and
(6) subject to compensation, the amount of which and the time and manner of
payment of which have either been agreed to by those affectid or decided or
approved by a court."

http://www.gov.za/documents/constitution/1996/a108-96.pdf

 

[Wyzak]

Except that this is in section 1 of the constitution.

"25. Property.-(1) No one may be deprived of property except in terms of law of gen-
eral application, and no law may permit arbitrary deprivation of property.
(2) Property may be expropriated only in terms of law of general application--
(a) for a public purpose or in the public interest; and
(6) subject to compensation, the amount of which and the time and manner of
payment of which have either been agreed to by those affectid or decided or
approved by a court."

http://www.gov.za/documents/constitution/1996/a108-96.pdf

Ah, excellent news. Thanks Dames.

 

[lilggg]

Why does the number voting districts reporting keep changing? It was at 22299 now at 21318 and last night i think it was the same.

 

[Dames]

Ah, excellent news. Thanks Dames.

I think everyone should take a glance through the constitution, it certainly helps to have a better knowledge of it (I'm not claiming I know it well at all, but a lot of the issues people have been bringing up here aren't really a problem if you realise how it all pieces together).

That document is so important to our country.

 

[Dames]

Why does the number voting districts reporting keep changing? It was at 22299 now at 21318 and last night i think it was the same.

That can't be possible as there are only 22263 districts in total?

 

[Wyzak]

Why does the number voting districts reporting keep changing? It was at 22299 now at 21318 and last night i think it was the same.

I haven't seen that, it's always increasing on the news24 site when I check.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Except that this is in section 1 of the constitution.

"25. Property.-(1) No one may be deprived of property except in terms of law of gen-
eral application, and no law may permit arbitrary deprivation of property.
(2) Property may be expropriated only in terms of law of general application--
(a) for a public purpose or in the public interest; and
(6) subject to compensation, the amount of which and the time and manner of
payment of which have either been agreed to by those affectid or decided or
approved by a court."

http://www.gov.za/documents/constitution/1996/a108-96.pdf

No, that's in the Bill of Rights, which is in Chapter 2.

And it contains the following provisions:

(4) For the purposes of this section-
(a> the public interest includes the nation’s commitment to land reform, and to
reforms to bring about equitable access to all South Africa’s natural resources;
and
(6) property is not limited to land.

(6) A person or community whose tenure of land is Iegally insecure as a result of past
racially discriminatory laws or practices is entitled, to the extent provided by an Act of Parlia-
ment, either to tenure which is legally secure or to comparable redress.
(7) A person or community dispossessed of property after 19 June 1913 as a result of
past racially discriminatory laws or practices is entitled, to the extent provided by an Act of
Parliament, either to restitution of that property or to equitable redress.
(8) No provision of this section may impede the state from taking legislative and other
measures to achieve land, water and related reform, in order to redress the results of past racial
discrimination, provided that any departure from the provisions of this section is in accordance
with the provisions of section 36 (1).
(9) Parliament must enact the legislation referred to in subsection (6)

 

[lilggg]

It was above the total like 20mins ago On the news24 site, wait till it reaches max then it will drop again. So nobody saw it at 22000+?

 

[Dames]

No, that's in the Bill of Rights, which is in Chapter 2.

And it contains the following provisions:

(4) For the purposes of this section-
(a> the public interest includes the nation’s commitment to land reform, and to
reforms to bring about equitable access to all South Africa’s natural resources;
and
(6) property is not limited to land.

(6) A person or community whose tenure of land is Iegally insecure as a result of past
racially discriminatory laws or practices is entitled, to the extent provided by an Act of Parlia-
ment, either to tenure which is legally secure or to comparable redress.
(7) A person or community dispossessed of property after 19 June 1913 as a result of
past racially discriminatory laws or practices is entitled, to the extent provided by an Act of
Parliament, either to restitution of that property or to equitable redress.
(8) No provision of this section may impede the state from taking legislative and other
measures to achieve land, water and related reform, in order to redress the results of past racial
discrimination, provided that any departure from the provisions of this section is in accordance
with the provisions of section 36 (1).
(9) Parliament must enact the legislation referred to in subsection (6)

You're correct, I was completely wrong!

 

[thestaggy]

What are the chances of Malema being enticed back onto the gravy train, giving the ANC a two-thirds majority?

I must say, looking at the numbers, the 2016 Municipal elections could see some serious changes. The CoJ could very well change hands. This will entail two more years of the ANC pulling it through their arse, but hey, there may be a light at the end.

 

[Wyzak]

You're correct, I was completely wrong!

Great, so we are boned after all then

What are the chances of Malema being enticed back onto the gravy train, giving the ANC a two-thirds majority?

I must say, looking at the numbers, the 2016 Municipal elections could see some serious changes. The CoJ could very well change hands. This will entail two more years of the ANC pulling it through their arse, but hey, there may be a light at the end.

Quite high I'd say. Vote with us on this and this matter that we both feel the same way about it and we'll drop all charges against you and give you 20 mill on the side. Do you think he's going to say no, that's against my principles?

 

[JStrike]

What are the chances of Malema being enticed back onto the gravy train, giving the ANC a two-thirds majority?

I must say, looking at the numbers, the 2016 Municipal elections could see some serious changes. The CoJ could very well change hands. This will entail two more years of the ANC pulling it through their arse, but hey, there may be a light at the end.

The ANC had a 2/3 majority for many years, and even after it lost it, it still had the extra vote it needed from friendly parties. Nothing has changed regarding that