The End.

[Tassidar]

As I explained earlier, there is no such way that there will be a cheap way of splitting hydrogen. There is still a certain amount of energy that goes into the process that CANNOT be bypassed - it is as simple as that. That amount of energy is at least the amount of energy that is released when hydrogen is burned to form water. Finished and klaar. Anything else violates the first law of thermodynamics which states that energy can't be created or destroyed.

Simply put, if there was a cheap and easy way of doing it, you could burn hydrogen to power a process that split more hydrogen and power cars at the same time - clearly impossible.

Incidentally, you wouldn't even be able to burn hydrogen to split hydrogen in an energy neutral process, as this would violate the second law of thermodynamics - that entropy always increases (in other words that perpetual motion machines are impossible).

Don't even bother contemplating it.

 

[StrongTurd]

Yup, there's no denying that.

 

[boramk]

Zeitegeistnomics...

 

[MidnightWizard]

Warp Drive

As I explained earlier, there is no such way that there will be a cheap way of splitting hydrogen.
Thermodynamics - that entropy always increases (in other words that perpetual motion machines are impossible).
Don't even bother contemplating it.

Ja and they said that heavier than air manned flight was IMPOSSIBLE -- by learned Professors nogal

MW

 

[BCO]

@ aeron - good thing that "cheap" extraction of hydrogen from water breaks the laws of physics then. Puts paid to that conspiracy.

 

[boramk]

Ja and they said that heavier than air manned flight was IMPOSSIBLE -- by learned Professors nogal

MW

There's a difference between known physics and 18th Century conundrums.

 

[MidnightWizard]

Levitation

There's a difference between known physics and 18th Century conundrums.

Ag no man I am not talking about ICARUS -- talking twentieth century.

Prof Langley and the Wright Brothers
After Wilbur's death in 1912, Orville became passionate about defending the Wright Brothers standing as inventors of the airplane.
When Smithsonian officials displayed one of Secretary Langley's "Aerodromes," as Langley called his airplanes,
with the label stating that Langley had constructed a machine “capable” of flight before the Wright Brothers successful flight, Orville was not happy.
Because of this, in 1925, he loaned the Wright 1903 Flyer to the London Science Museum, promising that it would not return to the United States until the Smithsonian renounced its claim.
It is not until 1944 that Smithsonian Secretary Charles G. Abbot and Orville Wright came to terms.
The Wright 1903 Flyer was placed on display in the Smithsonian's Arts and Industries Building on December 17, 1948.

I suppose Aeroplanes just "levitiate" and it has nothing to do with PHYSICS

MW

 

[BCO]

Ag no man I am not talking about ICARUS -- talking twentieth century.



I suppose Aeroplanes just "levitiate" and it has nothing to do with PHYSICS

MW

???

To produce hydrogen cheaply and with a nett energy gain is a violation of the laws of thermodynamics. Airplane flight is not a violation of any physical laws. Therein lies the difference.

 

[Rubberpigg]

.......

Is a strong turd a turd with mega fibre,as compared to weak turd that has minimal or no fibre??
Just curious about the name.

 

[StrongTurd]

Is a strong turd a turd with mega fibre,as compared to weak turd that has minimal or no fibre??
Just curious about the name.

LMAO! Good one, dude! I'm sitting in a hotel room at the moment and that remark did wonders for my miserable mood. Thanks!

 

[MidnightWizard]

Physics

???
To produce hydrogen cheaply and with a nett energy gain is a violation of the laws of thermodynamics.
Airplane flight is not a violation of any physical laws. Therein lies the difference.

Laws of Physics
Oh, I know – you’re going to say that physics comes into play here!
It’s just not possible! Right.
And neither is nuclear fusion, superconductivity, and of course, the internet doesn’t exist at all!
My point is that engineers and scientists are in the business of finding ways around physical laws as we understand them,
and/or discovering or refining old laws to more accurately reflect reality.
Because let’s face it, we don’t even understand how gravity works for god’s sake.
So don’t quote me any physics text books, please.

Sort of what I wanted to say -- about Physics and the "END" -- but I am not a scientist

MW

 

[Tassidar]

Sort of what I wanted to say -- about Physics and the "END" -- but I am not a scientist

MW

So tell me, which laws of physics did flight violate?
Which laws of physics did Nuclear Reactions supposedly violate?

Sure Newton's Laws aren't entirely accurate, but they are only inaccurate when dealing with special relativity, but that has little application on earth.

Besides which, the laws of thermodynamics are pretty fundamental, and if nothing else make good sense - you can't manufacture something out of nothing, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

For thousands of years people have tried to come up with a perpetual motion machine and to date no one has managed.

So please explain to me, how CAN you manufacture energy from nothing (keep your argument to chemical equations involving hydrogen and oxygen anything else lies outside of the scope of this argument).

 

[Rubberpigg]

LMAO! Good one, dude! I'm sitting in a hotel room at the moment and that remark did wonders for my miserable mood. Thanks!

 

[Pilgrim]

I found some canned food in my cupboard that I stashed there when I heard the world is ending.

Is the world still ending, or can I eat them canned food now?

 

[genetic]

It's the end of the world as we know it... and I feel fiiiine...

 

[Alan]

It's been nearly a year since 'turd started this thread. Getting rather tired of waiting now.

 

[StrongTurd]

I found some canned food in my cupboard that I stashed there when I heard the world is ending.

Is the world still ending, or can I eat them canned food now?

Ummm, I couldn't really care - whatever floats your boat, I guess. Why, should I in any way be concerned about your well-being?

Now that you've raised the subject, a short update might be in order:

Contrary to what might be the logical assumption, I am probably rooting harder for an economic recovery (albeit a temporary one) than almost any of the cornucopians on this forum. That might sound counter-intuitive, given my propensity for posting consistently grim facts but the reasons should be obvious: Firstly (and this is a point that I'm reiterating), I am in no way looking forward to a systemic collapse. Secondly, a financial respite, however brief, gives me more time to prepare for the inevitable. To be perfectly honest, I am not even remotely close to the level of preparedness that I would consider to be a minimum level necessary to face the impending collapse of complexity. I would really, really be ecstatic if we could squeeze another 5 to 10 years out of the system. Realistically, however, things might implode sooner that that, I'm afraid.

It is now a well known fact that the system came to within days of a total collapse in the last quarter of 2008 (in fact, some analysts say mere hours) so I would advise at least a fair measure of humility to go with your smugness about our apparent recovery. Sadly, the trillions of dollars of fiat currency that was created in order to save the financial institutions merely compounded the inevitable. Without exception, any fiat currency that has ever been created over the last 1000 years has eventually collapsed due to the ravages of inflation. Even the most casual observer will instantly recognise the "hockey stick" shape of an exponential curve when plotting the US inflation figures since 1665. Exponential curves have a tendency not to have happy endings...

The USA (and likewise most of the Western world) now carries a debt burden that it has no realistic way of ever repaying. What is it sitting at now? 55 Trillion or thereabouts? In fact, if the USA was to raise taxes so as to seize 100% of all wages, salaries and corporate profits, it still would be showing an annual deficit using GAAP accounting on a consistent basis! WOW!

Unfortunately if you combine this fact with our current fiat currencies you've got absolutely no way of averting inevitable insolvency for the USA and its major Western trading partners like the UK. Clever tricks by the Fed will only postpone the day of reckoning.

Another interesting fact from the IEA's 2008 World Energy Outlook and this in response to the recent front page article in the New York Times about the apparent glut of new oilfield discoveries during the last year or two: Should world economic growth resume, then we'll need the equivalent of SIX TIMES the total crude oil production of Saudi Arabia to be added to the world's total production by 2030 in order for supply to keep up with demand. Even if economic growth was to stall completely until 2030, then we'll need FOUR NEW Saudi Arabias just to compensate for the decline in production from existing fields!

Think about that for a while and then tell me where this oil is going to come from considering the fact that the total eventual projected production from all these supposed massive new oil finds might barely flow more than 1 mbpd (flow rate is far more important than ultimately recoverable reserves) and that is even when you disregard the fact that almost all of these new finds are in deepwater fields etc. Add to this the fact that oil extraction and refining infrastructure investment had almost collapsed at the end of 2008 and you have the recipe for a massive peak oil induced economic collapse. Happy times indeed.

 

[StrongTurd]

Dead government walking

I've just stumbled across a very good article that elaborates on the main points from my previous post. Of particular interest is the graph on page 3 listing total US government obligations including the dreaded "unfunded obligations" namely social security and healthcare that I've addressed in a previous post.

If anything, it appears that the number that I quoted in my previous post for the total US government debt, namely $55 trillion, is very conservative. Depending on which accounting model you prefer to believe namely the US government's own figures or GAAP figures (the latter is what any publicly traded company would have to use), then the total US government debt is $74 trillion or $114 trillion respectively!

To put that number into perspective: If you were to use the lower figure and divide it per capita for the total US population (and provided my calculations are correct given the frightening number of zeros), then you get a staggering figure of $246000 per capita! Note that this number is not calculated for the productive population of the USA but for the entire US population including children, students, pensioners, housewives and the unemployed. When calculated for the productive population alone then that number would be far, far higher.

The following quotes sum this article up very well:

the United States Government is on a trajectory to default on their obligations. In its current financial condition, it will not be able to fund its forecasted budget deficits and unfunded Social Security and Medicare promises on top of its current debt obligations. This isn’t official yet, and
we don’t know when the market will react to it, but there is no longer any doubt about the extent of their trajectory. There simply isn’t enough taxing power, value creation or outside capital willing to support its egregious spending.

We believe the US government’s current trajectory presents one of the greatest macro-economic risks at play today. The Federal Reserve and the US government have assumed the toxic financial trash that brought the banking system to its knees a year ago. By monetizing debt to support their
budget deficit and ‘save the system’, both entities have chosen to walk a well worn path traveled by so many governments before them. Like dead men walking, the US government is merely biding its time until the moment of truth. Unlike Fannie Mae, General Motors or Citigroup, however, there is no
one left to grant a reprieve.

The FDIC ‘fund’ merely consisted of IOU’s from the general revenues accounts. And now that the Deposit Insurance Fund balance as of September 30, 2009 is negative 13 the FDIC wants the institutions to prepay their assessments for all of 2010, 2011 and 2012. In effect, the FDIC wants to borrow money from the banks it provides insurance for. Does this not strike you as surreal? Why would anyone have any confidence in anything the FDIC guarantees?

Of equal concern is that this scenario applies to most of the Western economies:

We do not mean to pick on the United States alone. The proclivity to overspend has spread to most governments throughout the developed world. According to recent estimates, the countries that make up the G20 will face a combined budget deficit of 10.2% of GDP in 2009, the biggest since World
War II. The US leads this ‘rogues gallery’ of government spending on a percentage of GDP basis at 13.5%, followed closely by Britain and Japan at 11.6% and 10.3%, respectively. If governments choose to continue down this path, it must be questioned where all their funding will come from, not
to mention the impact it will have on their respective currencies.

 

[Turtle]

Granted, maybe I don't. However, you've got to ask yourself if someone that calls the current financial crisis and the fact that almost every major economy in the world is now in recession "mundane" knows any better.

Yes, because look, it's almost a year later and we're all still alive. China as well as many other economies are still showing growth, even the US had a positive quarter ... job losses are somewhat bottoming out, inflation growth has long peaked, and the foundations of the global economy are still in pretty good shape -- better than they've been at almost any point in human history, save for a few years ago. Nobody is starving, relatively miniscule number of people lost their homes, and most people still live in pretty good conditions - movies, malls, video games, TV, electricity, what-have-you.

I told you it was relatively mundane. Recessions come and go. Sometimes big ones, sometimes small ones. It's not new that they're globally interlinked. But no, you just got swept up in hysteria. Seriously, you only need to *just look at* the global economy to see that we're not at some precipice of doom; there's never been so much economic activity, so many educated people, so much trade, so much technology and modernity, so much construction, so much infrastructure .. ever, ever on this planet. So chill out, ride the recession out, and make sure to put some savings away for the next one, because these things have cycles.

And sure the US might be printing money and borrowing like there's no tomorrow, but the global economy is much bigger than just the US; we could and would weather even a complete collapse of the US economy, even though it wouldn't be pretty, but that won't happen anyway.

 

[StrongTurd]

Japan Spirals into Bankruptcy?

"Markets are worried that Japan is going to hit a brick wall: the sums are gargantuan," said Albert Edwards, a Japan-veteran at Société Générale.

... Simon Johnson, former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), told the US Congress last week that the debt path was out of control and raised "a real risk that Japan could end up in a major default". The IMF expects Japan's gross public debt to reach 218% of gross domestic product (GDP) this year, 227% next year, and 246% by 2014.

No one knows exactly when a country tips into a debt compound trap. But Japan must be close, even allowing for the fact that liabilities of the state Loan Programme (FILP) have fallen by 40% of GDP since 2000. "The debt situation is irrecoverable," said Carl Weinberg from High Frequency Economics. "I don't see any orderly way out of this. They will not be able to fund their deficit. There will be a fiscal shutdown, a pension haircut, and bank failures that will rock the world. It is criminally negligent that rating agencies are not blowing the whistle on this."

Conclusion: There is a real solution, of course, one that would not be hard to implement. A private market-based gold and silver standard would provide a platform for real and sustainable growth. Asia (Japan and China) will learn this along with the rest of the world when the current global fiat money regime achieves the finality of the collapse it so richly, inevitably, deserves.

218% Debt to GDP ratio? There's no ways that this can have a happy ending.

History proves that every single fiat currency that was ever created eventually collapsed, generally leading to the collapse of the society that depended on it.

Source.