The Huawei B593 LTE discussion thread

[liquidskies]

Yes, been work 100% for a couple of weeks

 

[K-Tech]

LTE Antenna Install

Hi all,

Long time not posting but I see the forum is growing meaning more ppl get LTE education, now we just hope the minister of comms also get LTE wise... (unless he has fiber to his house - grin)

Great write-up on antennas for the non technical ppl.

Sorry non technical ppl, many of us are sometimes ignorand about the fact that technical stuff comes easy to us.
My mother still ask me how to do internet banking after showing her for the past two years+.... Some ppl are just not made to understand or remember the technical stuff.

As a technical person I would recommend that all new B593 users first do some playing around with their new modems before obtaining "stronger" "external" "indoor or outdoor" antennas and maybe save the money for data.

Drive around in your area to search the closest tower and do some signal tests on your cell phone.
I say this as most 3G towers has been upgraded with new LTE panels in LTE areas or contact your ISP for info or free survey.

Also note that moving/turning your modem as little as a few milimeters to the left or right can make a big difference if "build-in" antannas are used. I have done many of these sorts of fine tuning in my clients homes and save them money.

I am very thankful that I am very close to a tower and if I had to move I will make sure I have a tower close by in line of sight.
As I am still not fully convinced that these fancy mentioned antennas from poynting are worth the money
or are worth the effort of self install.

Users to far from towers/or no/little line of sight need external outdoor antennas installed by professionals with testing/metering equipment. (Quality installations comes with a guarantee)
Users can try doing it them self but it takes "FINE TUNING" to get true results. (Like installing a dish for dstv)

And while you on the roof make sure you have a safety rope around you... we do want you to report back on self installs.

Oh yes, also remember the stronger the antenna, the more noise it can pick up if not installed properly.
(So outdoor antennas can make matters worse)

Ask Azimuth, read about his efforts and time spend on fine tuning and investment on different antennas / different directions.

Otherwise enjoy LTE

 

[sajunky]

Good post. Most of people don't need external antennas. If they get 15Mbps straight out the box, what is a reason to hunt for 30Mbps at extra R3000+? To post speed test results?

No, Azimuth is not about different antennas. Azimuth is about Poynting antennas. I think everybody understands it while reading just few posts. Sort of marketting drivel on MyBB, getting people to buy Poynting antennas.

 

[K-Tech]

Hi, sajunky...

I meant different models from poynting...

I agree, marketing!

And to be honest every install is different so one can not say a outdoor antenna will double speed...
I am on the tower with only 25Mbps.... d/l
I think I still have the best signal here? hahaha but that is naturaly due to the fact that I live on the tower...

 

[Azimuth]

Let's split up the discussion to appropriate sections? B593 discussion can remain here. I've asked a moderator to tidy up.

Resources:

The Poynting antenna discussion thread

Antenna installation and alignment

 

[Azimuth]

I have a B593s-601 and extremely slow upload. Speeds like 20/0.5 d/u

I was impressed and got router at TelkomDirect for R1499 once-off !!!! I was speechless about price.

Any setting I can tweak?

Poor Firmware. Had routers with much more:
- multiple supported DynDNS services
- VPN support
- Guest network
- 2.4/5Ghz networks
- file browser for usb devices
- fixed IP addresses for devices

Unfortunately there aren't any settings to "tweak". The device is what it is, a signal receptor. Let's tackle this in the appropriate section about antennas.

Note the B593 does have support for VPN, guest access, USB file server and IP address reservation.

 

[K-Tech]

LTE Internet service provider v.s. Signal quality / Speed v.s. tower used

Seeing that we now have more discussion threads on LTE,
I hope this posting fits in here for now as it involves all the threads...

There are lots of discussion and testing etc re: B593 LTE / Antenna / Install etc.

My question(s) here is:

Q1. Are there any relating factors if "I.S.P. x" (internet sp only) uses a tower from "Network z" ?
- Do they only share the same tower? or
- Do they share the same radio panels?
(I would think and hope that every I.S.P. has their own radio panel/equipment and backbone)

If not this change each factor involved (signal quality / speed / data cost) and brings new questions.

Q2. Which "Internet service provider" is best for:
- Signal quality?
- Speed?
- data cost?

If I can remember / understood correctly from a older posts...

Q3 Someone post that LTE are not effected by weather...??? please explain...
(not talking about lightning strikes and ext. outdoor antennas)

Q4 Someone post that LTE speeds are not effected by busy networks...??? please explain...

My appologies if I miss some detail on Q3 + Q4

In other news, I have started a war with TM re: my slow speed v.s. fantastic signal.
Will update once I know WHY???

Edit:
I am still convinced that speeds vary from area to area (The TM devil)
... and demand has something to do with it (Q4)

 

[Derrick_SA]

Have the B593 act as "Modem

Hi There all,

So I am also interested in the B593 telkom deal. but look at the moment it is pretty lowkey as a router.

Can I use this to only supply highspeed internet to my network router. so have it actually act as a "modem" to my network only.

the router can only handle 10/100 on the LAN ports, to slow. no DDNS, etc... so if my netgear could still manage the network with the B593 giving LTE speeds, it would be really nice.

anyone knows?

thanks,
Derrick

 

[K-Tech]

Hi Derrick,

Welcome.

If you are happy with your current router, yes you can use the B593 as a modem only.
There are some IP/Gateway settings involve, sure you know.
Also remember to disable B593 wi-fi settings if not used (otherwise you could use it for wi-fi phones only)

But play around with the B593 router UI first before you decide...

Please give us feedback once you up and running...

Btw which Telkom Mobile deal are you going for? Price?

Enjoy

 

[jcheek]

Just out of interest...
What is the db gain on the built-in antennas of the B593 itself?
Anyone tested yet?

Not specified anywhere in the B593 docs, unfortunately. Documentation's not Huawei's strongpoint.
And I doubt any one of us users has the means to test them conclusively.
In my own experience, they're actually pretty good - they seem to perform better than the included flat whip antennas. Comparable wideband whips are usually about 2dBi.

We could ask a competent local company to test it of course ... but that might be seen as marketting (sic) drivel ;-)

 

[K-Tech]

Thank you jcheek...
Was asking because I am looking at external outdoor antenna's db's
But I am pretty sure the expense might be a waste.
Also now trying everything to get higher d/l speeds

 

[Azimuth]

Have you seen the success myself, jcheek and others have had with outdoor antennas? It's no longer a fallacy but real, the before and after results have been published.

The Poynting antenna discussion thread

Antenna installation and alignment

 

[K-Tech]

Have you seen the success myself, jcheek and others have had with outdoor antennas? It's no longer a fallacy but real, the before and after results have been published.

The Poynting antenna discussion thread

Antenna installation and alignment

Thanks Azimuth, I just can't understand it, I am on the tower with good signal...
That's why I am also now looking at outdoor antennas, but sad for only about 500m



Edit: Maybe we are just greedy fighting for speed but thats why we invest in LTE
If we are now already fighting for 50Mbps, how much more investment for 100-150Mbps

eish.

 

[Azimuth]

Seeing that we now have more discussion threads on LTE,
I hope this posting fits in here for now as it involves all the threads...

There are lots of discussion and testing etc re: B593 LTE / Antenna / Install etc.

My question(s) here is:

Q1. Are there any relating factors if "I.S.P. x" (internet sp only) uses a tower from "Network z" ?
- Do they only share the same tower? or
- Do they share the same radio panels?
(I would think and hope that every I.S.P. has their own radio panel/equipment and backbone)

If not this change each factor involved (signal quality / speed / data cost) and brings new questions.

Q2. Which "Internet service provider" is best for:
- Signal quality?
- Speed?
- data cost?

If I can remember / understood correctly from a older posts...

Q3 Someone post that LTE are not effected by weather...??? please explain...
(not talking about lightning strikes and ext. outdoor antennas)

Q4 Someone post that LTE speeds are not effected by busy networks...??? please explain...

My appologies if I miss some detail on Q3 + Q4

In other news, I have started a war with TM re: my slow speed v.s. fantastic signal.
Will update once I know WHY???

Edit:
I am still convinced that speeds vary from area to area (The TM devil)
... and demand has something to do with it (Q4)

A1: We know that MTN and Telkom are finalising a network sharing deal but right now, their equipment on the towers, as far as I know, is separate.

Yes they share the same tower.
No, they don't share GSM or LTE directional panels (I stand to be corrected).

I still have to study this further but my local MTN tower lacks distance (radio power output?) compared to Telkom Mobile. It may also be a 2300MHz vs 1800MHz thing, I'm not entirely sure. TM, on my tower at least, transmits much stronger than MTN.

A2: "It depends". What is available to you? Who has the best signal? Choose from there.

A3. I posted that. I observed very keenly what the effects are on LTE, if any. I found that compared to 3G, LTE doesn't seem to be affected by weather. An RF engineer might have to step in to explain but that is my finding.

With wind, rain, etc, 3G can nosedive badly. With LTE, it's business as usual.

A4: I've been making this claim based on UK LTE user feedback. The assumption is that LTE uptake is much greater there and there are many more users on LTE there, than here. Users there do not experience congestion issues like here.

I realise backhaul might be far superior. Maybe there's even multiple backhauls. So my remarks have to be proven. Common sense does seem to indicate that the more wireless clients per wireless device, quality of service will go down. At this stage I'm not sure how it works and what's different in the UK compared to here.

 

[jcheek]

Hi There all,

Hey Derrick_SA - welcome !

but look at the moment it is pretty lowkey as a router.... at the moment it is pretty lowkey as a router.

Not sure what you mean by that ?
The B593 doesn't have the best feature-set when compared to a purpose-specific router, agreed.
As with any multi-purpose device, the "secondary" features of the B593 (Wi-Fi, advanced routing etc) are not that great. But it has the basics.
Use it primarily as a solid, reliable LTE modem and you won't be disappointed.

Can I use this to only supply high-speed internet to my network router. so have it actually act as a "modem" to my network only.

In principle, absolutely. How you do it in practice depends on what router you have and whether it supports an external WAN connection. (If it's a true standalone router, it has to).

The B593 has 4 x 100Mbps Ethernet LAN ports and any one of those can be fed into a Gigabit LAN port on your "main" router or a plain switch. The B593 will function as a gateway and provide internet access on the LAN side at a designated local IP address.

You don't mention what specific Netgear device you're using. Is it really just a router with a WAN port and a 4-port LAN switch, or does it have other functions, like an integrated ADSL/3G modem or built-in Wireless Access Point ?
In the former case, just disable the built-in modem on the Netgear and let the internet come from the B593.
In the latter case, perhaps disable Wi-Fi on the B593 and let the Netgear continue to handle wireless access.

the router can only handle 10/100 on the LAN ports, too slow, no DDNS, etc... so if my netgear could still manage the network with the B593 giving LTE speeds, it would be really nice.

That's true, the B593's LAN ports are only 100Mbps. It does support DDNS, by the way - at least, the B593s-601 does.
You will probably want to avoid the B593's ports for LAN switching and rather use the Gigabit ports on your Netgear router (or on another downstream switch) to preserve intra-LAN speed.


Note: If you want to have multiple connections to the internet at the same time, like LTE and ADSL together, it gets a little more complicated. In that case you'll need a dual-WAN router that can intelligently direct traffic to one or both of the WAN ports, typically in a failover or load-balancing mode.

So I am also interested in the B593 telkom deal.

A last thought : if you get your B593 from Telkom, you will likely get the B593u-91, which only supports one operating mode (TDD 2300/2600MHz) and will effectively lock you in to Telkom.

You could consider getting the B593s-601, which supports Telkom TDD2300 but will give you the option to use some of the other network operators as well - see model detail in this post.

 

[jcheek]

...
Q3 Someone post that LTE are not effected by weather...??? please explain...
...

I can perhaps comment a little on one of those aspects.

On a "conventional" radio system (like 3G), you only have one antenna at both ends, so you only ever have 1 "copy" of the data arriving at the receiver at a time. If external interference (like bad weather) corrupts that copy, then the receiver has to ask for it to be sent again, and throughput suffers. If the interference is so bad that the signal is continuously affected, then the link goes down.

On an LTE system you have two antennas on the transmitter. For best results, you also want two antennas on the receiver. At the receiving end, the antennas are specifically arranged so that they receive signals emanating from the two transmitter antennas as "distinctly" as possible. This is "diversity" and there are a couple of ways to achieve it with your antenna system.

If both signals arrive in good shape, then the link can effectively use both signal paths in parallel and get more throughput (ie higher data rates). This is "high speed" mode.

However, if weather conditions (or any other kind of interference) start to compromise the link integrity, the chance of both signals being affected at the same time is much smaller than in the single-antenna (3G) case. In that case, the link can switch over to "high reliability" mode, effectively using two different copies of the same data to rebuild the original signal. There is no need to ask for a re-transmission and throughput can be preserved. Data rates may not be quite as high as in the "high speed" mode, but the link will stay up despite the interference.

So while an LTE link will still be somewhat affected by adverse conditions, it is much more robust.

 

[Derrick_SA]

Hi there, thanks for the welcome. he he.

K-Tech, jcheek I appreciate the detailed answers. thanks very much.

Yes, I want my NETGEAR Router with 1Gbps to do the heavy lifting inside my network (when I come back from shooting I often have 200GB-500GB+ to transfer, he he, and at 100Mbps it takes a while). and my wifi streaming etc... works well also, so (ek wil nie krap waar dit nie juk nie). I do have WAN port on my NETGEAR.

so basically I want the 601 model (That they offer) to give me a good speed internet to my existing Network setup so I can retain 1Gbps wired. (beating my current 3G/adsl speeds hopefully)

Bluetec phoned me offering me the telkom 601 version (they checked). at R469 for two years with 20GB per month. Any better offers you guys think I should rather take? I would actually prefer to buy the LTE device outright and get a nice data bundle deal, but they don't seem to offer that?

thanks again for the help,
Derrick

 

[jcheek]

If Telkom are offering you the '601, then all good.

If you prefer to get the B593 outright, try Makro. Not so long ago they were selling the '601 for R1999, check out this post. You may still find them around.

As for data bundles ... take your pick. A lot of us use the current Telkom Mobile prepaid deal : 60GB for R1800 valid for a year, with another 60GB thrown in to be used in the wee hours of the morn. Telkom also have good monthly deals if you prefer. Also check out Afrihost LTE data-only deals (which operate on MTN's LTE network).

Let us know how you do !

 

[Azimuth]

I just wanted to say, I sourced my last B593s-601 from a Telkom store @ R2,649.

The Makro deal is over and I think it's R2,400, so still the cheapest.

Regards mobile data, don't forget Afrihost Mobile. I'm paying R497pm for 20GB. Just note that the deal is only valid until tomorrow.

 

[Azimuth]

I can perhaps comment a little on one of those aspects.

<snip>

/bows