The iPhone is pregnable

[SauRoNZA]

iCloud I see now, which to me is essentially the same thing, both Drive and iCloud are supposed to be secure.

And they are…neither was compromised here. Your WhatsApp was just synced to another device.

But you could easily see if they were by going to check the activity logs for either. But your password would also have been changed for both etc.

 

[my alt account]

You can’t restore an iPhone backup like that.

But WhatsApp would have synced the most recent conversations no problem since the iPhone was still “alive”.

It doesn’t need a backup or contacts if the other device is ready and willing to simply sync it across.

Basically what I tried saying... I guess

 

[SauRoNZA]

But also @NeonNinja now is a good time to go set a password on your WhatsApp accounts.

Then none of this would have been possible.

 

[Smiggles]

Yeah enable passkey support in Whatsapp.

 

[NeonNinja]

Honestly I think the simple answer is the obvious. Face ID was so good it unlocked while you were handing it to him. This is why he didn’t threaten you more to unlock it.

Slim possibility in my eyes. There were literally cars all around us. He was in a "rush" job, even if in my view it was locked he wouldn't have had that time to be asking passcodes or unlocking. He ran to the shadows, I doubt he had the cognizance or awareness to keep the phone on, as he was watching out for his surroundings and running.

And the handover wasn't pleasant. It was TAKE phone between thighs, give it off as soon as possible so this knife wielding scum can get away.

 

[NeonNinja]

But also @NeonNinja now is a good time to go set a password on your WhatsApp accounts.

Then none of this would have been possible.

Lesson learnt. I must do this. TA.

 

[NR7]

Slim possibility in my eyes. There were literally cars all around us. He was in a "rush" job, even if in my view it was locked he wouldn't have had that time to be asking passcodes or unlocking. He ran to the shadows, I doubt he had the cognizance or awareness to keep the phone on, as he was watching out for his surroundings and running.

That way is the only way I see possible for some skollie.

Nobody is cracking a 6 digit iPhone passcode in an hour.
And even with the sim to a new device, you can't get the old chats without iCloud signed in nor contacts saved to an account like your business account.


So he grabbed it, swiped up and ran off. It's not his first rodeo.

This is why I put secondary FaceID on my Whatsapp, calls and messages amongst others, with a password to install new apps from the store and notifications only showing the contents if it sees your face. That's means even if someone grabs your phone while unlocked they can't get into important things.

 

[NeonNinja]

That way is the only way I see possible for some skollie.

Nobody is cracking a 6 digit iPhone passcode in an hour.
And even with the sim to a new device, you can't get the old chats without iCloud signed in nor contacts saved to an account like your business account.


So he grabbed it, swiped up and ran off. It's not his first rodeo.

This is why I put secondary FaceID on my Whatsapp, calls and messages amongst others, with a password to install new apps from the store and notifications only showing the contents if it sees your face. That's means even if someone grabs your phone while unlocked they can't get into important things.

Thanks man. For the security suggestions. I

 

[SauRoNZA]

That way is the only way I see possible for some skollie.

Nobody is cracking a 6 digit iPhone passcode in an hour.
And even with the sim to a new device, you can't get the old chats without iCloud signed in nor contacts saved to an account like your business account.


So he grabbed it, swiped up and ran off. It's not his first rodeo.

This is why I put secondary FaceID on my Whatsapp, calls and messages amongst others, with a password to install new apps from the store and notifications only showing the contents if it sees your face. That's means even if someone grabs your phone while unlocked they can't get into important things.

Cracking isn’t possible at all due to Apple lock out…and even then like you say not possible in one hour.

So either the PIN was compromised (observed beforehand) or it was Unlocked when he grabbed it as you say.

However with the fallout being limited to WhatsApp and the mentioned pin-less SIM card (with the limited information we have otherwise) I don’t think the iPhone itself was compromised.

With the iPhone being “alive” until 22:00 hours it would have just synced any existing chats across to the new device, no backup required and the login verification went directly to the SIM card.

 

[NeonNinja]

Oh ya another thing. The phone was stolen and then only an hour later I get notifications on my Apple Watch like notifications I'd get if the phone was turned on and data. Like many notifications all at once. If that means anything.

Thats when I quickly rushes to the MacBook.

 

[Adenoid Hynkel]

You can’t restore an iPhone backup like that.

But WhatsApp would have synced the most recent conversations no problem since the iPhone was still “alive”.

It doesn’t need a backup or contacts if the other device is ready and willing to simply sync it across.

Nope, that’s not how it works.

If his WhatsApp was on the iPhone setup as the main device, and they removed the SIM to set up WhatsApp on another phone, it would’ve logged him out of WhatsApp on the iPhone right away, including any linked companion devices. So there wouldn’t be any recent chats showing on the new device.

You’re thinking of adding another device as a WhatsApp companion device, but thats only possible if you scan the QR code from the phone where WhatsApp is already active which was his iPhone.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Oh ya another thing. The phone was stolen and then only an hour later I get notifications on my Apple Watch like notifications I'd get if the phone was turned on and data. Like many notifications all at once. If that means anything.

Thats when I quickly rushes to the MacBook.

Most likely that was the first time you connected to WiFi with your Watch.

Remember it has no other means or sync except for Bluetooth and since the iPhone was gone that wasn’t possible.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Nope, that’s not how it works.

If his WhatsApp was on the iPhone setup as the main device, and they removed the SIM to set up WhatsApp on another phone, it would’ve logged him out of WhatsApp on the iPhone right away, including any linked companion devices. So there wouldn’t be any recent chats showing on the new device.

You’re thinking of adding another device as a WhatsApp companion device, but thats only possible if you scan the QR code from the phone where WhatsApp is already active which was his iPhone.

I mean it’s too much of a ballache to test this for me now, but I’m pretty sure I did exactly this only a couple of weeks ago deleting my “primary/main” WhatsApp and reinstalling it.

That’s just the thing I don’t think the concept of a primary/main device exists any more with the recent changes by WhatsApp.

I can delete WhatsApp entirely on my phone now and just carry on with other devices, which wasn’t the case in the past, there I can agree.

 

[NeonNinja]

Most likely that was the first time you connected to WiFi with your Watch.

Remember it has no other means or sync except for Bluetooth and since the iPhone was gone that wasn’t possible.

Ah yes!

My thinking is these guys continued to chat on WhatsApp (including business) as they texted recent people. Not people I haven't talked to in a while.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I mean it’s too much of a ballache to test this for me now, but I’m pretty sure I did exactly this only a couple of weeks ago deleting my “primary/main” WhatsApp and reinstalling it.

That’s just the thing I don’t think the concept of a primary/main device exists any more with the recent changes by WhatsApp.

I can delete WhatsApp entirely on my phone now and just carry on with other devices, which wasn’t the case in the past, there I can agree.

@Adenoid Hynkel I can confirm I just did it again deleting the app and skipping the backup.

All your chats EVER are there. Let me be clear the CHATS not their contents.

So exactly as I explained earlier someone would be able message and continue any old conversation without having the contacts.

Having just gone through it with absolute certainty my position is that nothing other than WhatsApp was compromised.

Likely the WhatsApp Business is simply
Linked to the same number for 2FA or recovery.



You are right however that there actually is no reliance on any other device. WhatsApp just syncs all the chats directly off server.

The lesson here is to put a PIN and password on your WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal and any other account that uses a phone number directly.

Or switch to an eSIM.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Ah yes!

My thinking is these guys continued to chat on WhatsApp (including business) as they texted recent people. Not people I haven't talked to in a while.

That’s what I’ve been saying all along.

They don’t need access to your contacts or backup.

All your chats you haven’t actively deleted would simply be on the new device for them to carry on a conversation and they likely just spammed from the top.

 

[Adenoid Hynkel]

I mean it’s too much of a ballache to test this for me now, but I’m pretty sure I did exactly this only a couple of weeks ago deleting my “primary/main” WhatsApp and reinstalling it.

That’s just the thing I don’t think the concept of a primary/main device exists any more with the recent changes by WhatsApp.

I can delete WhatsApp entirely on my phone now and just carry on with other devices, which wasn’t the case in the past, there I can agree.

Yeah I get what you mean, and you’re right about that part. You can delete WhatsApp from your main phone and still keep using it on linked companion devices.

But that’s a different thing from putting the SIM in a new phone and re-registering WhatsApp with the same number. Once you do that, WhatsApp logs you out everywhere, including the old phone and any linked devices.

So if they set it up as a new main WhatsApp device using his SIM/number, the iPhone would’ve been logged out and they would have zero chat history. And if they set it up as a companion device instead, they would’ve had to unlock his iPhone and approve/link it from the active WhatsApp on that iPhone.

 

[NeonNinja]

That’s what I’ve been saying all along.

They don’t need access to your contacts or backup.

All your chats you haven’t actively deleted would simply be on the new device for them to carry on a conversation and they likely just spammed from the top.

Insightful

 

[Adenoid Hynkel]

@Adenoid Hynkel I can confirm I just did it again deleting the app and skipping the backup.

All your chats EVER are there. Let me be clear the CHATS not their contents.

So exactly as I explained earlier someone would be able message and continue any old conversation without having the contacts.

Having just gone through it with absolute certainty my position is that nothing other than WhatsApp was compromised.

Likely the WhatsApp Business is simply
Linked to the same number for 2FA or recovery.

View attachment 1920431

You are right however that there actually is no reliance on any other device. WhatsApp just syncs all the chats directly off server.

The lesson here is to put a PIN and password on your WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal and any other account that uses a phone number directly.

Or switch to an eSIM.

On Android I can delete WhatsApp from my phone and it’ll ask whether I want to keep the data. If I say yes, then reinstall WhatsApp, all my chats are still there.

But that’s not the same thing as setting up WhatsApp on a completely different phone.

Set up WhatsApp on one phone and create a few chats. Then move the SIM to another phone, download WhatsApp, and register the same number again. You’ll see there’s no chat history on the new phone, and WhatsApp will log you out of the original device instantly.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Yeah I get what you mean, and you’re right about that part. You can delete WhatsApp from your main phone and still keep using it on linked companion devices.

But that’s a different thing from putting the SIM in a new phone and re-registering WhatsApp with the same number. Once you do that, WhatsApp logs you out everywhere, including the old phone and any linked devices.

So if they set it up as a new main WhatsApp device using his SIM/number, the iPhone would’ve been logged out and they would have zero chat history. And if they set it up as a companion device instead, they would’ve had to unlock his iPhone and approve/link it from the active WhatsApp on that iPhone.

Yes note I never said there would be Chat History as in actual chat data.

But every single chat that wasn’t delete shows up as blank and fresh and if you don’t sync contacts you’ll simply have their number showing (or their display name).

So anyone would just continue those hundreds of conversations…which is what happened here exactly.