The IT profession

Honestly I hate people that got a matric and then just get a IT job handed to them, as a couple of years ago I struggled to find work after finishing my studies...
I have now been in the IT industry for 4years and only now got a decent job with a company that actually wants me to study further and acomplish something in life.
And today still I see ignorant people without prior experience nor any qualifications getting work that pays double of what mine does allthough I had to work my a$$ off to get where I am now?!?!
My honest opinion is that the IT industry is to political/buddy related when it comes to recruiting new staff.....

Also I have seen that the youth of today thinks that a IT related job is all about playing games the whole day, and thus we get a flooded IT marked with unenthusiastic ignorant brats that just got a qualification with their parents hard worked cash, and have absolutely no intention of actually working for their money, and would still be arogant to want a high paying salary?!?

They way of the IT market is basically working your a$$ of for peanuts for the first 3/4 years of employment and then hopefully you might get a job with a company that actually looks after their emplyees..... And qualification or no qualification, you will still earn the same regarless, when you start out
 
It would be great if there was even an IT qualification one could recommend that would effectively guarantee that said person could successfully run an IT project. Right now I don't see anything that exists like that, so it seems mighty premature to start jumping up and down demanding it be the only legal way to do IT.
 
This is a problem with which the computer Society has unsuccessfully wrestled since the 70's.

IMHO there are a few reasons for project failure.

Most business projects are run by non-IT qualified persons. Most business projects are designed by non-IT qualified persons. The result is that an essentially unworkable solution is attempted.

There are too many so called Universities run by suppliers. These Universities qualify you in the latest version of some product or other and when the next version comes out you need to take some expensive course or exam in order to remain qualified. This is 100% how a University should not work.

Universities teach understanding and the ability to do your own research. Knowledge of some tick box in a product does not construe such understanding.

Unfortunately, IT has become to be seen a commodity item - anyone can go to a store and buy a computer. Some manage to learn the basics of a spread sheet program, which they use for all their solutions, and are then considered computer programmers by their peers and then go on to run the IT department!

How to fix the problem? The first step would be for some sort of entrance exam. Something which would test both IT and Business knowledge. A hot shot DBA who has no understanding of business requirements is just as useless as a hot shot MBA who has no knowledge of database.
 
I know this piece is very old, but I still think its true 90% of the time.... and this IS why you cannot compare IT to other industries...

Arhictect said that if the world was build the way software was, then the first little breeze will collapse the world - programmer respondes

Dear Mr. Architect,

Please design and build me a house. I am not quite sure of what I need, so you should use your discretion.

My house should have between two and forty-five bedrooms. Just make sure the plans are such that the bedrooms can be easily added or deleted. When you bring the blueprints to me, I will make the final decision of what I want. Also, bring me the cost breakdown for each configuration so that I can arbitrarily pick one.

Keep in mind that the house I ultimately choose must cost less than the one I am currently living in. Make sure, however, that you correct all the deficiencies that exist in my current house (the floor of my kitchen vibrates when I walk across it, and the walls don't have nearly enough insulation in them).

As you design, also keep in mind that I want to keep yearly maintenance costs as low as possible. This should mean the incorporation of extra-cost features like aluminum, vinyl, or composite siding. (If you choose not to specify aluminum, be prepared to explain your decision in detail.)

Please take care that modern design practices and the latest materials are used in construction of the house, as I want it to be a showplace for the most up-to-date ideas and methods. Be alerted, however, that kitchen should be designed to accommodate, among other things, my 1952 Gibson refrigerator.

To insure that you are building the correct house for our entire family, make that you contact each of our children, and also our in-laws. My mother-in-law will have very strong feelings about how the house should be designed, since she visits us at least once a year. Make sure that you weigh all of thses options carefully and come to the right decision. I, however, retain the right to overrule any choices that you make.

Please don't bother me with small details right now. Your job is to develop the overall plans for the house: get the big picture. At this time, for example, it is not appropriate to be choosing the color of the carpet. However, keep in mind that my wife likes blue.

Also, do not worry at this time about acquiring the resources to build the house itself. Your first priority is to develop detailed plans and specifications. Once I approve these plans, however, I would expect the house to be under roof within 48 hours.

While you are designing this house specifically for me, keep in mind that sooner or later I will have to sell it to someone else. It therefore should have appeal to a wide variety of potential buyers. Please make sure before you finalize the plans that there is a consensus of the population in my area that they like the features this house has.

I advise you to run up and look at my neighbor's house he constructed last year. We like it a great deal. It has many features that we would also like in our new home, particularily the 75-foot swimming pool. With careful engineering, I believe that you can design this into our new house without impacting the final cost.

Please prepare a complete set of blueprints. It is not necessary at this time to do the real design, since they will be used only for construction bids. Be advised, however, that you will be held accountable for any increase of construction costs as a result of later design changes.

You must be thrilled to be working on as an interesting project as this! To be able to use the latest techniques and materials and to be given such freedom in your designs is something that can't happen very often. Contact me as soon as possible with your complete ideas and plans.

PS: My wife has just told me that she disagrees with many of the instructions I've given you in this letter. As architect, it is your responsibility to resolve these differences. I have tried in the past and have been unable to accomplish this. If you can't handle this responsibility, I will have to find another architect.

PPS: Perhaps what I need is not a house at all, but a travel trailer. Please advise me as soon as possible if this is the case.
 
BravoDrie said:
I know this piece is very old, but I still think its true 90% of the time.... and this IS why you cannot compare IT to other industries...
Click to expand...

And it's also why projects fail.

The difference is that no architect would accept the brief. In the IT industry they will kill each other to get the contract ...
 
Drake2007 said:
Frthermore bridge failure is not an option, peoples lives are at stake and engineers can end up being liable for manslaughter in such a case (including during construction).IT has no such dire consequences.
Click to expand...
This is complete rubbish. People's lives most definitely do depend on certain IT infrastructures - more so every day that goes by.

I would fully support some kind of accountability for the IT industry. I would say that some kind of extension of the current controls on the engineering profession would be ideal. Already many of the 'IT Professionals' in top positions have an engineering background of some sort.

It is not about stopping untrained people from entering the industry. The building of a bridge requires the labour of many low skill (less than matric) workers. What IS required is that someone which suitable ability is at the top of the pecking order and is able to put their proverbial on a block.

I don't think you can compare the ability of a fresh graduate vs a developer who has been coding since they left high-school. In this case experience almost always wins. It is about the 'professionals' that are heading up these projects and their accountability.

km2 said:
It would be great if there was even an IT qualification one could recommend that would effectively guarantee that said person could successfully run an IT project. Right now I don't see anything that exists like that, so it seems mighty premature to start jumping up and down demanding it be the only legal way to do IT.
Click to expand...
There are branches of engineering that are now targeted directly towards this already. If you look at the current industry however - engineers of any specialisation are often capable.
 
ambo said:
There are branches of engineering that are now targeted directly towards this already. If you look at the current industry however - engineers of any specialisation are often capable.
Click to expand...

Oh I know there are branches "targeted" to it. What I'm saying is the majority of people who step out of university from a project management/"IT engineering" stream still mess up many of their projects when they enter the business world of vague requirements/limited budget/time constraints.

So I'm saying point me to some kind of course that actually solves the problem described in the article, rather than just hand waving and saying "well they'll be sort of better, I mean they can't be any worse". If I was seeing results from current courses where near 100% of IT projects by qualified engineers succeed, similar to results in civil engineering where near 100% of bridges built by qualified engineers work out, then I'd be all for it.
 
As long as companies fail to see planning and design as the most important aspect of IT projects, they will continue to under-deliver and fail.
I agree completely, a legally backed 'board' type of organization which developers must be registered with (and which has stringent entry requirements) would be one big improvement. I would see unionising of the IT industry as another benifit of this sort of movement. Of course in reality, this would just drive the price of IT up (even if quality did go up as well) so we would just end up losing contracts to other countries with cheaper, unregulated IT industries.. catch 22.
 
Flint said:
As long as companies fail to see planning and design as the most important aspect of IT projects, they will continue to under-deliver and fail.
I agree completely, a legally backed 'board' type of organization which developers must be registered with (and which has stringent entry requirements) would be one big improvement. I would see unionising of the IT industry as another benifit of this sort of movement. Of course in reality, this would just drive the price of IT up (even if quality did go up as well) so we would just end up losing contracts to other countries with cheaper, unregulated IT industries.. catch 22.
Click to expand...
O so true.. because thenfrom business : " but they can do it for cheaper, why can't you be cheaper? We don't care about quality, we just need it NOW."

And when the system fails it's too late.

My opinion.. with a bridge... it can be built in a few ways.. but someone design and accepts. In IT... you have 10 different people in the company.. and EVERYONE wants to give input and MUST be implemented. Now you have to cater for 100 more scenarios (I work with the crap everyday).

So if an engineer who builds the bridge.. will he listen to everyone who contracted him and build according to their specs and If he says no, the project gets canned or goes to another engineer..(get my drift?)
 
km2 said:
So I'm saying point me to some kind of course that actually solves the problem described in the article, rather than just hand waving and saying "well they'll be sort of better, I mean they can't be any worse". If I was seeing results from current courses where near 100% of IT projects by qualified engineers succeed, similar to results in civil engineering where near 100% of bridges built by qualified engineers work out, then I'd be all for it.
Click to expand...
Its not really about the qualifications at the end of the day. Graduate Engineers do not build bridges - PrEng's build bridges. There is a level of accountability required to become a PrEng and this is in fact where the distinction lies. A degree is one one of the tickboxes on the road to becoming a PrEng but it is most definitely not the ultimate requirement.

Someone needs to stand up and be willing to take the credit (or discredit) for IT projects in the same way and be held accountable legally when they cause/allow harm through their projects.
 
EtienneK said:
IT is a lie.

What they teach you in varsity and what you do in the real world are two different things.

Varsity IT work is fun, challenging and you actually learn new and exciting things. IT at work is boring, mundane and thankless.

Wish I studied something else to be honest...

</rant>
Click to expand...
Thankless is the understatement of the year.
 
ambo said:
Its not really about the qualifications at the end of the day. Graduate Engineers do not build bridges - PrEng's build bridges. There is a level of accountability required to become a PrEng and this is in fact where the distinction lies. A degree is one one of the tickboxes on the road to becoming a PrEng but it is most definitely not the ultimate requirement.

Someone needs to stand up and be willing to take the credit (or discredit) for IT projects in the same way and be held accountable legally when they cause/allow harm through their projects.
Click to expand...

Ah, so you want it more as a legal formality. It doesn't matter if they're being taught anything that makes them significantly better at developing systems, but if they mess up they lose their license and hopefully that makes them more careful.

So in theory if a licensed engineer isn't pretty sure he can deliver the product correctly for the budget/time specified he won't sign off on it.

You do realise that this doesn't necessarily raise the quality of all IT projects, it just reduces the number of IT projects in play so that only quality ones are allowed to progress (i.e. ones where the engineer has full confidence it will work). It's like claiming to solve poverty by just killing all the poor people. This isn't a method to uplift projects so that they're all done well, it just prevents the poor ones from starting, where the cost/benefit is no longer worth going through all the added hoops.

There are plenty of software developments out there done by unqualified people that still provide far more of a business benefit than the risk involved. Sales people who produce simple Visual Basic applications to automate repetitive tasks, but that can't justify the tens of thousands of rands involved in the full software project cycle. Trying to remove these tools from their hands is seriously disempowering, and decreases the overall efficiency of the business. Sure, a professionally designed application may be more future-proof, more reliable, and easier to maintain. But that's no help if it never happens because it's just too expensive to begin with.

I totally agree that for critical systems one needs certification i.e. Nuclear Reactors, Airplanes, Medical Systems. And you know what, those already are done by certified engineers. But it's utter nonsense to tell me that the KFC drive-through ordering system needs to be certified 1) adding additional costs passed through to the consumer and 2) turning IT into an even more snobby little club than it already is.
 
ha ha would pay to see them implement this....IT industry wont accept it. Purely because it would increase the price on the "bla bla certified oke". Did my degree in information systems and trust me wasted my time, the real world is way more dynamic than anything a pen and paper can teach you. And sure its an ungrateful job, but I for one couldn't care less whether I'm liked by an admin lady.
In short, the oke writing this was smoking something, and obviously has vague ideas of an idealistic system where everything runs clock work.
 
ponder said:
If only you knew how many times they screwed up my order :D
Click to expand...

I can imagine ;) Perhaps they need a similar qualification program for other fields. "Food Preparation Technician". Mess up customer orders too often and you lose your license, and are never allowed to work in a restaurant again. That'll teach 'em to be more careful.
 
Like i have stated in other posts, getting a degree for your every day run of the mill development job wont come in handy, unless you are going to get involved some very technical aspects of the development, i.e. writing compilers, code generators, algorithms, intense computational maths. Like having a degree or B.Com in accounting will definitely aid you in developing an accounting package. You decide to go into the game industry(i use that as my example, as that was my reasoning), they teach you all the math and different formula, which you will not get from an IT diploma, or matric.
 
<moLe> said:
And sure its an ungrateful job, but I for one couldn't care less whether I'm liked by an admin lady.
In short, the oke writing this was smoking something, and obviously has vague ideas of an idealistic system where everything runs clock work.
Click to expand...

Let's not forget the world runs on software - it is as pervasive and critical as electricity. Not too shabby for a "broken" IT industry, me thinks.

I salute all the coders in the world who seldom get the thanks and the appreciation they deserve.
 
The problem with IT is that it's sexy, which attracts a lot of time-wasters and pretenders. It's also very easy to talk BS and have people believe you. The most dangerous figure is someone who didn't have an IT background and discovered it late by a short course and tries to apply it from a high position. A recipe for calamity.
 
Problem with IT currently is there are too many shortcuts to get to the same job, so u can go to university and study for 5yrs and come out with an honors degree but in the 5 yrs you lost out on 3 or 4yrs experience the IT diploma guy got and then i'f that's not bad enough, u will struggle more than him to find a job as he is more employable with past experience. Thus degree people are kinda forced into doing management crap.

What i am saying is this, IT diploma stuff is the real culprits. Think back 9 or 10yrs ago when mcse came out how every single college was promo'ing it, R30k, 6months and you earning more than a degree'd person. heh.. i guess the consequences is now being felt.
 
krycor said:
Problem with IT currently is there are too many shortcuts to get to the same job, so u can go to university and study for 5yrs and come out with an honors degree but in the 5 yrs you lost out on 3 or 4yrs experience the IT diploma guy got and then i'f that's not bad enough, u will struggle more than him to find a job as he is more employable with past experience. Thus degree people are kinda forced into doing management crap.

What i am saying is this, IT diploma stuff is the real culprits. Think back 9 or 10yrs ago when mcse came out how every single college was promo'ing it, R30k, 6months and you earning more than a degree'd person. heh.. i guess the consequences is now being felt.
Click to expand...

I'm looking to hire an IT technician currently, and strangely enough I'm not interested that much in qualification or even experience. I'm looking purely for a bright kid willing to climb the ropes and a keeness for the job.Because what differs technicians from ""technicians"" is attitude. Obviously a diploma/degree even certification proves that you are commited, but just a piece of paper does not equate to a good employee...the guys that give IT a bad name is the guys that heard from their grandparents friends IT is were the bucks are at, they are the guys that just see it as a job. As were the IT oke thats passionate about it doesnt need jack because he's been at it since 5th grade at some level or another....and lastly my advice for adspirring IT guys....work+study part time
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X