The IT profession

[semaphore]

That isn't an engineer, people use that word way to loosely.

a basic IT engineer is a guy that can build and troubleshoot both desktops and servers.

However there is a lot of dif areas you can specialise in like:
-networking(advanced and basic)
-servers(Linux, Unix, Windows, Citrix)
-desktops/notebooks(Apple,Hp, Dell, IBM)
-Callcentre
-application owners
Etc......

 

[semaphore]

UJ offers a course where you get 2 degrees in 4 years: An engineering degree (either Mechanical, Electric or Civil) AND an IT degree.

I think this is what he is referring to.

UJ heh.. i wouldn't send my worst enemy there

 

[EtienneK]

Hello Guys..

Nowadays the IT is on high and also it stays on high position in the market..
I am also choosing the IT profession because in market there are so much demand for IT thats why i am doing IT Engineering..
Its really a very huge market no one can unemployed with IT degree....

Dude, DON'T go into IT for the money. Like I've stated earlier: It's a thankless job. They expect you to work very long hours with no overtime. You must also be on call most of the time.

Think of it as being a doctor. You're on call all the time... only problem is you don't get paid like a doctor!!

 

[EtienneK]

UJ heh.. i wouldn't send my worst enemy there

I don't know how they are now, but I graduated from my honours degree at UJ in 2006. I've had a chat with some of the other graduates from other varsities and the UJ IT degree is on par with the best.

It really is (was??) a good university for IT.

 

[Th0r]

That isn't an engineer, people use that word way to loosely.

So if I am a master ASE in procurve, you would not ref to me as a engineer?

 

[vodacom3g]

Dude, DON'T go into IT for the money. Like I've stated earlier: It's a thankless job. They expect you to work very long hours with no overtime. You must also be on call most of the time.

Think of it as being a doctor. You're on call all the time... only problem is you don't get paid like a doctor!!

How long have you been in IT?

IT is one of the best paying jobs and definitely pays better than what the average GP gets. And for less effort in obtaining a qualification.

The big problem is guys want to come straight out of school / technicon / varsity and expect a big salary. This is not going to happen.

But if you put your nose down and work had and don't complain about working long hours and be (very) good at what you do, you'll also get the big money.

 

[Th0r]

How long have you been in IT?

IT is one of the best paying jobs and definitely pays better than what the average GP gets. And for less effort in obtaining a qualification.

The big problem is guys want to come straight out of school / technicon / varsity and expect a big salary. This is not going to happen.

But if you put your nose down and work had and don't complain about working long hours and be (very) good at what you do, you'll also get the big money.

+1

 

[moosag]

There's one main reason why IT will never be regarded as a profession and will always contain failed elements and weak programmers. The simple reason is that the people who have the power to create a profession out of it and regulate it correctly are the academics and lawyers. These people do not have a clue from a technical perspective that is why they shy away.

In short what I am trying to say that because IT is so "Technical" whether you networking or writing a web based application. Other than programmers themselves, no one else knows what we do or how we do it. That's why IT people make a lot of money and projects are expensive and because of the lack of regulation and accountability many projects fail. And the guys in IT who could help the laywers and such people are too busy with projects to sit and write up guidelines. And imagine the war over programming guidelines from a SA perspective from developer to developer??? We can barely agree on SOA vs REST let alone industry standards.

I have been in the IT Industry for 7 years. I am a developer by trade. The formula is simple. There are developers out there who just suck and are clueless. And there are developers out there who rock. Whether they be 17 or 71 is irrespective. The IT Industry is a business. The reality is that there is no regulation and accountability.

If your a good developer then you'll have no problems landing a job, starting your own company and delivering the goods. If you suck as a developer and always end up dodging the bullet and jumping from 1 company to the next, it will catch up with you at some point in time ! Guaranteed!

In IT you either deliver or you dont. There's no in-between. You app works or it does not. Binary chaps, 0 or 1. It's not rocket science. Unfortunately there are people out there who promise the world, charge an arm and a leg and give you 4kol in return. These are dishonest business people who exist in every sector of every industry. Its called milking the cow.

The responsibility lies with the stakeholder to choose a competent and honest solutions provider. As far as I am concerned if a Manager chooses a cheaper and faster option for a custom piece of software and gets screwed in the end, then he deserves it. Why should we as "IT Professional's" be held responsible for bad business decisions made by bad business people.

There's also one very important reality everyone is forgetting. As "IT Professionals" we always argue and never come to common ground. i.e.

-> The argument of is a degree necessary still rages on till today.
-> I know guys who argue that classic asp makes more business sense than asp.net
-> I know guys who die by php and hate asp and vice versa. Again the argument will rage on for years to come
-> MVC or Webforms?
-> TDD or normal development?
-> Agile or [Insert your favorite methodology here]

My point is that we will always argue, and it this rebellious behaviour that is built into us that we will create new ways of doing things, foster innovation and is the net result of all the different types of technology that is being thrown at us from all angles and providers.

The nature of the beast is to large to be controlled and regulated by any man, body or government. Look at Microsoft. Till today they struggle to deliver their sh*t on time. Personally I dont feel too bad if I slip on a deadline, because MS does it too. Granted my reasoning has to be sound of course. Lazyiness is no excuse

So personally if IT is never regarded as a profession I am fine by that. I say if it aint broke dont fix it. And to those people whose projects keep on failing. Buck up, educate yourself in areas you dont know about, get your head in the game and try to figure out whether you being screwed or not. Alternatively sit in your corporate ivory tower, issuing orders and when the house of cards come tumbling down, you only have yourself to blame.

 

[Sackboy]

UJ offers a course where you get 2 degrees in 4 years: An engineering degree (either Mechanical, Electric or Civil) AND an IT degree.

I think this is what he is referring to.

Unless all the modules for the IT degree and the engineering degree overlap exactly, then I would say it's questionable. Is this an honours degree?

 

[Weasley]

No only the math overlap witch is big part of both and then the it is spread over 4 years instead of 3 and it includes all the main engineering subjects. so if you decide to do it be prepared to go 7 am to 9 pm class everyday of the week.

edit: i did my Bsc(IT) there the guys that did both basically had all my class except 2 witch is the 2 businesses subjects

 

[EtienneK]

Unless all the modules for the IT degree and the engineering degree overlap exactly, then I would say it's questionable. Is this an honours degree?

Like the poster above me stated...

It's two pre-grad degrees over 4 years. They do almost all the engineering and IT subjects that the normal guys do, except for the business related subjects.

It's the most intensive course at UJ. A friend of mine also did it and he had class for 12 hours every day for 2 years. After the 2nd year it loosens up a bit. But only a bit

I wish I did it. I would have had such a bigger choice of jobs. But the amount of work put me off.

 

[hyperian]

At UCT computer engineering is a mix between classic computer science and electrical engineering where you build microprocessors etc.

I worked at a medium sized software company with around 70 devs, and I think that only 3 or so didn't have a post-matric degree/diploma. What I got out of my degree wasn't how to write code. Out of the 9 full course credits I did in my undergrad, only 3.5 were in computer science. The rest were split between maths, physics, stats etc. And I always use the skills that I developed during these courses when I write code. Even my computer science modules were mostly not about coding. Out of 4 years of comp sci I never had one lecture in the lab; everything happened in the lecture room, and coding was something you did when you got home.

I think a bsc or beng degree teaches you how to solve problems using good methodology. A programming language is merely a tool to help you do this.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Dear god, not another engineer trying to use the old bridge argument. Not all engineers build bridges, and similarly an IT project failure won't kill people! Get your head out of the sand and realise that the world doesn't revolve around bridges.

The reason IT projects fail is because people don't see it as a necessity until something breaks. That's the price you pay for firstly trying to cut costs and hiring the first desperate moron you can find who's willing to accept minimum wage, and secondly for preference of qualification over experience.

 

[ambo]

I think a bsc or beng degree teaches you how to solve problems using good methodology. A programming language is merely a tool to help you do this.

Well said sir!

A degree is not about the formulas they teach you or the programming languages that you use. Its about developing a way of thinking.

 

[vodacom3g]

It's two pre-grad degrees over 4 years. They do almost all the engineering and IT subjects that the normal guys do, except for the business related subjects.

It's the most intensive course at UJ. A friend of mine also did it and he had class for 12 hours every day for 2 years. After the 2nd year it loosens up a bit. But only a bit

I wish I did it. I would have had such a bigger choice of jobs. But the amount of work put me off.

Dude, DON'T go into IT for the money. Like I've stated earlier: It's a thankless job. They expect you to work very long hours with no overtime. You must also be on call most of the time.

Notice the correlation?

Let me give you an example. About 12 years ago, I appointed a developer with little experience but the right attitude. Never said no to anything. Did whatever was asked of him and he was bloody good at what he did. Especially continually studying his subject. If he did not know the answer to something, he'd come back the next day with the answers after some overnight graft. Never heard him complain about 'too much work' or 'long hours'.

Bumped into him earlier this week and he still is doing development. Told me his CTT is now just a tad under R1M.

So, the point is: Anyone can earn a million Rand (or more) in IT. But the guys who do are those who first do their job and later worry about money, rather than the other way around.

 

[EtienneK]

Notice the correlation?

Let me give you an example. About 12 years ago, I appointed a developer with little experience but the right attitude. Never said no to anything. Did whatever was asked of him and he was bloody good at what he did. Especially continually studying his subject. If he did not know the answer to something, he'd come back the next day with the answers after some overnight graft. Never heard him complain about 'too much work' or 'long hours'.

Bumped into him earlier this week and he still is doing development. Told me his CTT is now just a tad under R1M.

So, the point is: Anyone can earn a million Rand (or more) in IT. But the guys who do are those who first do their job and later worry about money, rather than the other way around.

And who says I complain about the long hours to my bosses and co-workers? I promise you that that oke also goes home and complains to his family and friends about the long hours.

Just because we do it, doesn't mean we like it and it also doesn't mean the companies have the right to own us.

 

[vodacom3g]

And who says I complain about the long hours to my bosses and co-workers? I promise you that that oke also goes home and complains to his family and friends about the long hours.

Just because we do it, doesn't mean we like it and it also doesn't mean the companies have the right to own us.

It's not about who you complain to. It's about the fact that you complain in the first place. This means you don't really want to do the job. And this will come through in your work, attitude, reactions, etc. It's just human nature. But this will be seen and you won't move forward in the company. Result: You're stuck in a job you hate with no prospect of advancing. A self-fulfilling prophecy....

I happen to know he does not complain about anything related to his work.

Why?

Because he loves what he does.

And that is the point I'm trying to make:

First find out what you like in life, then make it your job. Suddenly you don't see it as hard work or long hours. It's now a 'passion'.

And the most amazing thing about being passionate (about anything) is that other people see it in you and they give you lots of money for it. (Be it golfing, racing, IT, medicine or whatever)

So again, love your job and do it well and the money WILL follow. But sit down and first figure out what job will pay how much (and how much work it is) and nothing but misery will follow...

What do you read at night when you go to bed? (Hint: This should probably be your job.)

 

[EtienneK]

It's not about who you complain to. It's about the fact that you complain in the first place. This means you don't really want to do the job. And this will come through in your work, attitude, reactions, etc. It's just human nature. But this will be seen and you won't move forward in the company. Result: You're stuck in a job you hate with no prospect of advancing. A self-fulfilling prophecy....

I happen to know he does not complain about anything related to his work.

Why?

Because he loves what he does.

And that is the point I'm trying to make:

First find out what you like in life, then make it your job. Suddenly you don't see it as hard work or long hours. It's now a 'passion'.

And the most amazing thing about being passionate (about anything) is that other people see it in you and they give you lots of money for it. (Be it golfing, racing, IT, medicine or whatever)

So again, love your job and do it well and the money WILL follow. But sit down and first figure out what job will pay how much (and how much work it is) and nothing but misery will follow...

What do you read at night when you go to bed? (Hint: This should probably be your job.)

Agreed. I don't enjoy what I'm doing. Like I've said in previous posts, IT at varsity is a lie. It's nothing like the real world IT. Real world IT is boring.

BUT, I am doing quite well for my age. The money isn't THAT bad, but the expectations are.

 

[vodacom3g]

Agreed. I don't enjoy what I'm doing. Like I've said in previous posts, IT at varsity is a lie. It's nothing like the real world IT. Real world IT is boring.

BUT, I am doing quite well for my age. The money isn't THAT bad, but the expectations are.

Change jobs. Best thing you can do for all involved.

 

[ambo]

Real world IT is boring.

Not in my experience. But then I think I have quite a passion for it

BUT, I am doing quite well for my age. The money isn't THAT bad, but the expectations are.

The business world is a stressful place - its not the exclusive domain of IT I challenge you to find ANY high paying job that does not have some kind of challenges attached.