The Middle East Conflict Thread

[semiautomatix]

Israel refuses investigations

Oh, where did you read that, pray tell?

 

[semiautomatix]

i think its the other way around .... you need to prove there were terrorists there ... The UN director according to his investigation said there were none ... we need an international non-biased party to investigate ... but Israel does not want this ...

EDIT: its like you shooting someone, you need to prove your life was in danger and thats why you shot the person ... same applies ...

Oh, where did you read that, pray tell?

 

[kryptik]

I agree with Tim, we're certainly going in circles here... At an anti-war protest this afternoon, I observed, amongst others, Christians, Jews and Muslims. It was heartening to hear the moulana standing next to me mentioning to a chap from the MDC that all he'd like to see is an end to the killing on both sides. A few minutes later a well-known local Jewish couple said the same thing when a reporter from a local radio station interviewed them. Not once did I observe anybody frothing at the mouth. Given this calibre of South African, I believe that there's hope for this country.

 

[Loop...]

Actually Israel doesn't need to prove anything. As long as they're getting their terrorists and their attack sites I'm quite happy. As long as Israel exists the terrorists are quivering in their boots, which is a good thing.

It is strange that these terrorists only attack Israel hey, people are quick to call what Israel is doing a war and quick to call the Palestinian resistance terror, i cant quite figure that out.

 

[semiautomatix]

I still have not received a viable answer: who started this whole conflict 60 years ago by attacking first?

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime :/

 

[adamr]

Actually Israel doesn't need to prove anything. As long as they're getting their terrorists and their attack sites I'm quite happy. As long as Israel exists the terrorists are quivering in their boots, which is a good thing.

no no no ... its an UN facility being attacked, with innocent people being murdered and according to a UN director and his investigation there were no Hamas militia in the area ...

and i think its only fair that an international party investigates to prove in Israels defence or not that this constitutes a War Crime. Israel refuses to accept ... I think they should if they have nothing to be afraid of ...

 

[Loop...]

So Hamas terrorists can shoot more soldiers?

If you are going to harbour terrorists you are going to get hurt. Full stop.

For me this debate is geting tired now, I've said what I needed to say on this topic.

 

[semiautomatix]

It is strange that these terrorists only attack Israel hey, people are quick to call what Israel is doing a war and quick to call the Palestinian resistance terror, i cant quite figure that out.

Please explain to me how going into a Tel Aviv restaurant occupied ONLY by civilians and exploding a bomb, killing 21 innocent people is not terror?

 

[semiautomatix]

For me this debate is geting tired now, I've said what I needed to say on this topic.

ktxbai

 

[semiautomatix]

no no no ... its an UN facility being attacked, with innocent people being murdered and according to a UN director and his investigation there were no Hamas militia in the area ...

and i think its only fair that an international party investigates to prove in Israels defence or not that this constitutes a War Crime. Israel refuses to accept ... I think they should if they have nothing to be afraid of ...

If you are harbouring terrorists and rocket launchers in your UN facility then I really can't help you, you brought this on yourself.

Well international parties have already labelled Hamas as a terrorist organisation, so I'm sure they'll not it was all justified.

You want to save your own life then out the terrorists to Israel.

 

[Xarog]

Please read this thread in its entirety I'm tired of going in circles and having my time wasted:

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?p=2418266&highlight=lehi#post2418266

How about you read :
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=2434430&postcount=2227
And
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=2434433&postcount=2229

instead. You'll see then why the post you linked to was a pointless question.

Let me spell it out for you since you don't seem to get it: Israel has the arsenal to blow Palestine into the middle ages, but since that is not their intention they haven't done it.

Let me spell it out for you, because you don't seem to get it : They could do that, but then everyone would know what a bunch of genocidally inclined warmongers they are. You see, Israel actually understands PR, which is why they've barred international journalists from entering Gaza, which is why they have media relations branches, which is why they regularly keep in contact with the press and have the journalists go on nice little tours, feeding them stories which are especially favourable to Israel's image.

Again, who attacked first in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict 60 years ago?

The palestinians had absolutely nothing to do with the attack 60 years ago. Back then they didn't even have a government, nor a standing army of any kind. They were entirely uninvolved as fighters in the conflict, but that didn't stop the IDF from ethnically cleansing millions of them. Hardly surprising that they've been upset ever since. But thankyou for givine me the opportunity to prove my point yet again. This whole thing has been an Israeli land-grab operation from day one, when it started in the 1880s.

 

[semiautomatix]

How about you read :
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=2434430&postcount=2227
And
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=2434433&postcount=2229

instead. You'll see then why the post you linked to was a pointless question.

Now read the next few pages after my link. I'll wait for you here, okay?

Let me spell it out for you, because you don't seem to get it : They could do that, but then everyone would know what a bunch of genocidally inclined warmongers they are. You see, Israel actually understands PR, which is why they've barred international journalists from entering Gaza, which is why they have media relations branches, which is why they regularly keep in contact with the press and have the journalists go on nice little tours, feeding them stories which are especially favourable to Israel's image.

Oh that article sounds interesting, where can I find it?

The palestinians had absolutely nothing to do with the attack 60 years ago. Back then they didn't even have a government, nor a standing army of any kind. They were entirely uninvolved as fighters in the conflict, but that didn't stop the IDF from ethnically cleansing millions of them. Hardly surprising that they've been upset ever since. But thankyou for givine me the opportunity to prove my point yet again. This whole thing has been an Israeli land-grab operation from day one, when it started in the 1880s.

Your ignorance is shining through here. Get a history textbook, have a good read and then let me know how foolish you feel.

There's an interesting read: did you know the IDF was formed in response to the Arab invasion of Israel? Haha! They did it to themselves, silly Palestinians!

Israel, the United States and the Soviets called the Arab states' entry into Palestine illegal aggression, while UN Secretary-General Trygve Lie characterized it as "the first armed aggression which the world had seen since the end of the [Second World] War."

In the 1880s when Palestine was part of the Islamic Ottoman empire? Damn those Turkish Arabs, always trying to grab Palestine. They're the ones we should be fighting!

When you manage to find a clue, then come back, I have no energy to argue with someone who is so ill-informed.

 

[semiautomatix]

I love how people make all these broad claims in the thread but are never brave enough to back it up with links to articles.

 

[Xarog]

And while we're at it, lets just take a look at a brief list of who's who in Israel's political structures these days :

First you have :Avigdor Liberman

In a poll published by Yedioth Ahronoth on 21 September 2006, Lieberman had more support than any politician except for Netanyahu to be the next Prime Minister of Israel (Olmert came in fifth, with 7%

This stat speaks for itself, he's obviously liked by Israelis. Only there's just one little snag....

Israeli daily Yedioth Ahronoth quoted Lieberman's proposal for an ultimatum to the Palestinians to halt all terror activity or face wide-ranging attacks on commercial centers: "if it were up to me I would notify the Palestinian Authority that tomorrow at ten in the morning we would bomb all their places of business in Ramallah, for example."[15] This led Foreign Minister Shimon Peres to respond that excessive military measures could lead to accusations of war crimes.[16]

He's an advocate of terrorism. And note how Shimon Peres claims the problem with the whole idea is that it would lead to accusations of warcrimes, the fact that it would be an open attack against Palestinian civilians, which would be terrorism by definition, is entirely ignored.

(Btw, Peres is currently President of Israel)

And let's not forget Netenyahu, the only politician more popular than Lieberman. He actively celebrates terrorism

In July 2006, Israelis, including former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former members of Irgun, attended a 60th anniversary celebration of the bombing, which was organized by the Menachem Begin Centre

I could go on... but I think the picture is clear enough already...

 

[Frankie]

they refuse International non-biased investigations into attacks like the one carried out on the UN school (sorry been a bit out of the media, but the last time i checked no international party investigated that attack)

why is this???? ...

It was not an attack on the school - it was an attack on Hamas terrorists near the school.

If only the Hamas terrorists would refrain from exposing their own civilians the way they do shooting rockets from densely populated areas into Israel's civilian areas.

Maybe the "international party" know the ropes, the lies from Hamas and the Pallywood.

 

[semiautomatix]

Israeli daily Yedioth Ahronoth quoted Lieberman's proposal for an ultimatum to the Palestinians to halt all terror activity or face wide-ranging attacks on commercial centers: "if it were up to me I would notify the Palestinian Authority that tomorrow at ten in the morning we would bomb all their places of business in Ramallah, for example."[15] This led Foreign Minister Shimon Peres to respond that excessive military measures could lead to accusations of war crimes.[16]

He's an advocate of terrorism. And note how Shimon Peres claims the problem with the whole idea is that it would lead to accusations of warcrimes, the fact that it would be an open attack against Palestinian civilians, which would be terrorism by definition, is entirely ignored.

Are you honestly for real? Lieberman just called for an end to terrorism but he's advocating it? Do you not understand how your comments conflict?

Wow, this it utter rubbish.

 

[adamr]

Please explain to me how going into a Tel Aviv restaurant occupied ONLY by civilians and exploding a bomb, killing 21 innocent people is not terror?

this is wrong in my books ... killing 21 innocent people ... its just plain wrong ... BUT does not justify another wrong does it now? ... two wrongs don't make a right ...

timgaul, if you oppress a people for such a long time, sooner or later they will react, and yes these reactions like suicide bombings i dont agree with at all, it does not help the situation just makes it worst, more innocents get killed! Neither do the firing of Hamas rockets into Israel, cause their intentions were not good either and i dont think they would have worried if those rockets did kill innocent people

... but you got to ask the question is why are these people doing this? what's the root cause of the conflict? why are they reacting in this way? and it is out of sheer frustration under the oppressive conditions they living in, way before Hamas was even in power... (just compare living conditions between Israel and Palestine, google pics if there are)

Israel's response to wipe out Hamas seems an overkill (justified or not), you have such military prowess, certainly its intelligence arm, could send out some agents aka James Bond style and take out Hamas operatives, without the attacks currently being dealt out on the Gaza strip ... and the result: multitude of innocent lives being left dead ...

However that might not have been the plan but maybe the plan, it does seem now that it is, to systematically wipe out the Palestinian population and they testing those boundaries of just how far they can go without the International world crying, and now it looks like even if they do cry nothing can stop Israel in these attacks, not even an International signed document can not! ... intro: white phosphorus ...

 

[semiautomatix]

It was not an attack on the school - it was an attack on Hamas terrorists near the school.

If only the Hamas terrorists would refrain from exposing their own civilians the way they do shooting rockets from densely populated areas into Israel's civilian areas.

Maybe the "international party" know the ropes, the lies from Hamas and the Pallywood.

The selfish buggers in Hamas only care about Hamas. The safety of the Palestinian people is hardly a concern for someone who gave up all value for other lives a long time ago.

At least Israel's primary concern is the protection of its own citizens. Sure, it may be at a cost and perhaps has been a bit ruthless, but all the state has ever wanted to do is ensure the safety of its people.

 

[adamr]

If you are harbouring terrorists and rocket launchers in your UN facility then I really can't help you, you brought this on yourself.

Well international parties have already labelled Hamas as a terrorist organisation, so I'm sure they'll not it was all justified.

You want to save your own life then out the terrorists to Israel.

well the international unbiased party must prove this ... its only fair ...

It was not an attack on the school - it was an attack on Hamas terrorists near the school.

If only the Hamas terrorists would refrain from exposing their own civilians the way they do shooting rockets from densely populated areas into Israel's civilian areas.

Maybe the "international party" know the ropes, the lies from Hamas and the Pallywood.

John Ging the UN director according to his investigations said no Hamas militia was in the area ... Israel says there were ... i say bring the international unbiased party to investigate ... and why does Israel refuse this?

 

[Xarog]

Now read the next few pages after my link. I'll wait for you here, okay?

No, I think I'll skip the empty one-liners. If you have something to say, make a proper post.

Oh that article sounds interesting, where can I find it?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11512

This is just the most recent one. Note how Israel has to mount public relations attempts. They can't just tell the truth, lol.

Your ignorance is shining through here. Get a history textbook, have a good read and then let me know how foolish you feel.

No, that's your job.

There's an interesting read: did you know the IDF was formed in response to the Arab invasion of Israel? Haha! They did it to themselves, silly Palestinians!

Ok, fair enough, so it was the israeli armed forces, by whatever named they called themselves then. I am dreadfully sorry for misnaming them. Is that better?

Secondly, your racism shines through. The palestinians are arabs, but the arabs aren't all palestinians. You've just successfully blamed the palestinians in particular for the actions of Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Nice going.

And btw, since you're such a history buff I'd love for you to point to ANY link which shows that the palestinians had any kind of standing army which participated in the 1948 conflict.

In the 1880s when Palestine was part of the Islamic Ottoman empire? Damn those Turkish Arabs, always trying to grab Palestine. They're the ones we should be fighting!

The 1880s is when Jewish settlers first moved into the area of Palestine and started setting up their kibbutzes. But I thought you'd know that seeing as you're such a history buff? Because obviously I know nothing, right?

Oh, btw, lemme know when you run into the articles explaining how the Rothschilds funded it all, and how Rothschild's influence caused the Star of David to migrate from being a Rothschild family symbol into a symbol representing Judaism in general. (That's new, btw, 300 years ago the hexagonal star had absolutely no associative link to Judaism.)

EDIT : Here, since you probably won't bother to educate yourself, I'll spoon-feed you :
http://books.google.co.za/books?id=...X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result#PPA324,M1

And interestingly enough, Shimon Peres helped compile that book, if Google is to be believed. But I suppose it could just be a tinfoil hat conspiracy, right?

When you manage to find a clue, then come back, I have no energy to argue with someone who is so ill-informed.

Et tu, brute.