The Palestinian Papers

[Palimino]

Forget the clumsy assassinations that Mossad is continually accused of – this has the elegance and finesse of a Mossad operation.

Evidence for Mossad involvement is circumstantial but strong. Consider:

Item. Tzipi Livni served as a lieutenant in the IDF and Mossad.


Item. She is not that old and colleagues who stayed in Mossad were senior in the organisation (the personal touch). She was a senior person in Israel with good Mossad contacts. She could probably get things going off her own bat.

Item. Livni was Foreign Minister and played a huge role in negotiations.

Item. The operation was non-complex and didn’t require split-second timing, expensive equipment or many operatives.

Item. The risk/reward ratio was favourable.

Item. Security was good. Even the rest of the Israeli negotiating team didn’t need to know. Only her, Mossad and the head of state. If necessary, just ask leading questions and ‘stitch-up the Palestinians proper’.

Just establish a credible leak source. Lead them on [the Palestinians] and ensure your allies don’t blab about anything that would embarrass them unduly. Leak. Sit back and watch the fun. She has bigger balls than many men.

 

[I want a GTI]

You are being harsh. I didn’t say it was a Mossad operation, I said “this has the elegance and finesse of a Mossad operation”. Big difference. It has the hallmarks of a sophisticated intelligence operation and I would expect this calibre of performance from Mossad. Maybe it’s not. However, I would expect Hamas and the PA to accuse Mossad and the operation is streets ahead of their usual stupid accusations. Thus their accusations are plausible but it doesn’t matter. The cat is amongst the pigeons.

Anyway, what would Hamas do with Mossad if it ‘played into their hands’.

What Hamas do with Mossad is irrelevent. Who leaked the documents, is trivial. The thing to note, is the contents of the documents, the reaction of the general populous in Palestine. Hamas is the only party left, that represents the true interests of the Palestinian people. With these documents, all doubts have been removed.

Although, its trivial who released the documents, let me add, it would be truly counter productive, for Israel or Mossad to have a hand in the exposure of the PLO.

 

[Lightscribe]

Lol, if Hamas is a 'terrorist, extremist' organisation, I can only imagine what the filthy Zionists are.

Crap when the truth is exposed, innit?

Yep...

Pacepa: “Tovarishch Mohammed Abd al-Rahman Abd al-Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini, nom de guerre Abu Ammar,” was built into a Palestinian leader by the KGB in the aftermath of the 1967 Six-Day Arab-Israeli War. In that war Israel humiliated two of the Soviet Union’s most important allies in the Arab world of that time, Egypt and Syria, and the Kremlin thought that Arafat could help repair the Soviet prestige. Arafat had begun his political career as leader of the Palestinian terrorist organization al-Fatah, whose fedayeen were being secretly trained in the Soviet Union. In 1969, the KGB managed to catapult him up as chairman of the PLO executive committee. Egyptian ruler Gamal Abdel Nasser, who was also a Soviet puppet, publicly proposed the appointment.

Soon after that, the KGB tasked Arafat to declare war on American “imperial-Zionism” during the first summit of the Black International, an organization that was also financed by the KGB. Arafat claimed to have coined the word “imperial-Zionism,” but in fact Moscow had invented this battle cry many years earlier, combining the traditionally Russian anti-Semitism with the new Marxist anti-Americanism.

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=13975

Don't forget to renew your sacp membership.

 

[I want a GTI]

Yep...



Don't forget to renew your sacp membership.

Lol? Completely unrelated post. Arafat is dead and buried. Do get out from under that rock.

 

[Lightscribe]

Lol, if Hamas is a 'terrorist, extremist' organisation, I can only imagine what the filthy Zionists are.

Lol? Completely unrelated post. Arafat is dead and buried. Do get out from under that rock.

Read the whole article...

 

[Fudzy]

Israeli politician Tzipi Livni cancelled her visit to South Africa last week, dodging any possibility of arrest here for her role in the anti-Palestinian atrocities of the Israeli government.

After Livni faced a similar threat over travel to the UK in 2009, the British government remarkably undertook to change the relevant law. The same British Labour administration that joined the US in the arrest, trial and execution of Saddam Hussein at lynch mob pace turned around and decided to amend its own laws rather than arrest Livni.

Mahatma Gandhi understood such contradictions when he said that law represented “the convenience of the powers that be”.

Woops...

Just a note, yes I pick up on the slightly biased reporting by this chap.

A bit on him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Suresh_Roberts

 

[Alan]

The comrades still can't get over poor Saddam getting it in the neck

Yup. And the leaks have helped give them the power to make that decision.

and if it's the wrong decision. They'll pay the price with their lives. Empowered indeed

 

[Fader4]

These leaks once again demonstrate that the Zionists have no interest in peace, the concessions the Palestinian negotiators put on the table were staggering

and nothing short of treasonous yet they still rejected them, clearly the Palestinians are getting nowhere by negotiating with these terrorists.

 

[za1]

These leaks once again demonstrate that the Palestinians have no interest in peace, the concessions the Israeli negotiators put on the table were staggering

and nothing short of treasonous yet they still rejected them, clearly the Israelis are getting nowhere by negotiating with these terrorists.

 

[Fader4]

These leaks once again demonstrate that the Palestinians have no interest in peace, the concessions the Israeli negotiators put on the table were staggering

and nothing short of treasonous yet they still rejected them, clearly the Israelis are getting nowhere by negotiating with these terrorists.

trolling is sad.

 

[za1]

indeed it is, but not sure how that is relevant? oh unless you think fixing the obvious errors in your post constitutes trolling?:erm::wtf:

back on topic, all these papers show is in reality by not agreeing to a future land swop the palestinians advocate ethnic cleansing and want to focefully remove all jews from any future palestine in order to be Judenrein while at the same time demanding that Israel absorb Arab palestinians, go figure the hypocrisy.

 

[Fader4]

indeed it is, but not sure how that is relevant? oh unless you think fixing the obvious errors in your post constitutes trolling?:erm::wtf:

back on topic, all these papers show is in reality by not agreeing to a future land swop the palestinians advocate ethnic cleansing and want to focefully remove all jews from any future palestine in order to be Judenrein while at the same time demanding that Israel absorb Arab palestinians, go figure the hypocrisy.

its sad how far people will go to defend the indefensible, have you even read anything about these documents? instead of blaming the victims go do your research, the documents are available so you can read them yourself if you wish, ethnic cleansing? Israel wants to gerrymander Israeli Arabs out of the country and opposes the right of return for refugees, not surprising considering the fact that its an apartheid state. With todays releases it becomes even clearer that Israel has no intention of following through with a two state solution, it wants to keep the PA on a leash as its watchdog in the westbank while it stalls negotiations for another few decades all the while expanding its illegal settlements, thats what this is all about.... buying time to grow those settlements and reduce the Arab population in certain areas as much as possible.

 

[alloytoo]

its sad how far people will go to defend the indefensible, have you even read anything about these documents? instead of blaming the victims go do your research, the documents are available so you can read them yourself if you wish, ethnic cleansing? Israel wants to gerrymander Israeli Arabs out of the country and opposes the right of return for refugees, not surprising considering the fact that its an apartheid state. With todays releases it becomes even clearer that Israel has no intention of following through with a two state solution, it wants to keep the PA on a leash as its watchdog in the westbank while it stalls negotiations for another few decades all the while expanding its illegal settlements, thats what this is all about.... buying time to grow those settlements and reduce the Arab population in certain areas as much as possible.

It's interesting how the majority of Arab Israelies would prefer to remain Israelies should a two state solution come to pass. Which puts spurious comparisons to apartheid in perspective.

It appears to me that the Trans-Jordanian refugees could have declared independance 60 years ago and had a viable nation state by now. Instead they perpetuate their refugee status avoiding the consequences of international law which would have accrued had they attacked Israel in the manner in which they do as a nation.

 

[Fader4]

It's interesting how the majority of Arab Israelies would prefer to remain Israelies should a two state solution come to pass. Which puts spurious comparisons to apartheid in perspective.

It appears to me that the Trans-Jordanian refugees could have declared independance 60 years ago and had a viable nation state by now. Instead they perpetuate their refugee status avoiding the consequences of international law which would have accrued had they attacked Israel in the manner in which they do as a nation.

why is this "interesting"? these Arabs were living in what is now referred to as "Israel" long before the establishment of the Zionist colony, are you actually justifying expulsion of Israeli citizens based on race and religion? this is exactly what the Zionists intend to do, livni is very clear on this.... why should one be surprised that these Arab citizens would want to stay part of an Israeli "state"? people desire stability and practicalities will win the day. These "attacks" on Israel you speak of, i take it you mean the resistance against oppression, colonialism and apartheid? obviously the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves against terrorism and occupation.

in any case Israels treatment of its Arab citizens flies in the face of its founding principles, namely equality for all its citizens irrespective of ethnicity or religion... a bit silly to pretend to have values such as these when you are trying to build a Zionist state.

 

[alloytoo]

why is this "interesting"?

It's interesting because they would prefer to live under what is a supposedly "fascist apartheid like regime." For reasons which are interesting.

these [-]Arabs[/-] Israelies were living in what is now referred to as "Israel" long before the establishment of the State of Israel [-]Zionist colony[/-],

It's interesting that many would consider moving in order to stay in supposedly a "fascist apartheid like regime."

are you actually justifying expulsion of Israeli citizens based on race and religion? this is exactly what the Zionists intend to do, livni is very clear on this....

Where did I advocate that?

why should one be surprised that these Arab citizens would want to stay part of an Israeli "state"? people desire stability and practicalities will win the day.

Yes, so much so that they would consider moving towns to retain the quality of life they enjoy in a "fascist apartheid like regime."

in any case Israels treatment of its Arab citizens flies in the face of its founding principles, namely equality for all its citizens irrespective of ethnicity or religion... a bit silly to pretend to have values such as these when you are trying to build a Zionist state.

Are these the same Israeli citizens who enjoy the standard of living so much they're willing to uproot their families to retain it. Citizens who enjoy the vote, health care, representation in parliment and on the judicary?

These "attacks" on Israel you speak of, i take it you mean the resistance against oppression, colonialism and apartheid?

No, I mean terrorist rocket attacks on civilian towns.

obviously the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves against terrorism and occupation.

By bombing civilian buses?

Lets have a Palestinian state tomorrow? How long before it launched an attack on Israel?

Of course there are repercussions if the Palistinian State does it, which are avoided by being eternal refugees.

 

[Fader4]

It's interesting because they would prefer to live under what is a supposedly "fascist apartheid like regime." For reasons which are interesting.



It's interesting that many would consider moving in order to stay in supposedly a "fascist apartheid like regime."



Where did I advocate that?



Yes, so much so that they would consider moving towns to retain the quality of life they enjoy in a "fascist apartheid like regime."




Are these the same Israeli citizens who enjoy the standard of living so much they're willing to uproot their families to retain it. Citizens who enjoy the vote, health care, representation in parliment and on the judicary?



No, I mean terrorist rocket attacks on civilian towns.



By bombing civilian buses?

Lets have a Palestinian state tomorrow? How long before it launched an attack on Israel?

Of course there are repercussions if the Palistinian State does it, which are avoided by being eternal refugees.

look, whether you like it or not Arabs face systematic racism and inequality in Israel, this is well documented and observed, you are free to do research on the subject unless you choose to deliberately ignore the facts, also one should remember that Israel does not focus its terrorism on its Arab citizens, rather it wreaks havoc on the concentration camp at Gaza and continues to illegally settle colonists in the Westbank and east Jerusalem. Despite this i am sure many Palestinians aka Arab "Israelis" would still choose to remain part of Israel.... better the devil you know i suppose, its sensible to be weary of living in a brand new state which would be at the mercy of Israel, not to mention the fact that Israel intends for any new Palestinian state to be an undemocratic police state with no means of defense (as evidenced by todays Palestinian papers release).

At the end of the day until a referendum or some similar process is held no one will know how many Palestinians would want to remain in Israel, one survey by the Harvard school of government estimated 73 percent while a newer survey polling east Jerusalem residents found only 33 percent would want to be part of Israel if given a choice, these are not concrete figures and polls are often wrong by a mile.
Again, as i have said before, Palestinians have the right to defend themselves, if this is called terrorism then so be it, while i do not support it i see no difference between Israel deliberately bombing civilians and Hamas or some other such freedom fighter group doing it, the Zionists have a long history of deliberately killing civilians going all the way back to the 1940s, anyone with a decent knowledge of history would not deny this and to condemn Palestinians while Israel does the same on a MUCH larger scale is pure hypocrisy, talk about blinkers.

 

[alloytoo]

look, whether you like it or not Arabs face systematic racism and inequality in Israel, this is well documented and observed, you are free to do research on the subject unless you choose to deliberately ignore the facts,

The facts are that all Israeli's enjoy equal rights under the law. (the except is that Arab-Israeli's are not required to serve in the IDF), Israeli woman also enjoy the vote.

also one should remember that Israel does not focus its terrorism on its Arab citizens, rather it wreaks havoc on the [-]concentration[/-]squatter camp at Gaza and continues to illegally settle colonists in the Westbank and east Jerusalem. Despite this i am sure many Palestinians aka Arab "Israelis" would still choose to remain part of Israel.... better the devil you know i suppose, its sensible to be weary of living in a brand new state which would be at the mercy of Israel,

Palestinians are not Israeli's

not to mention the fact that Israel intends for any new Palestinian state to be an undemocratic police state with no means of defense (as evidenced by todays Palestinian papers release).

Given the Palestinian penchant for lobbing explosives indiscriminately into Israel, I'm not surprised. A UN peace keeping force would be a good idea.

At the end of the day until a referendum or some similar process is held no one will know how many Palestinians would want to remain in Israel, one survey by the Harvard school of government estimated 73 percent while a newer survey polling east Jerusalem residents found only 33 percent would want to be part of Israel if given a choice, these are not concrete figures and polls are often wrong by a mile.

But the polls indicate that at least some Arabs prefer to stay the evil empire, and would take positive measure to ensure they did. Interesting hey?

Again, as i have said before, Palestinians have the right to defend themselves, if this is called terrorism then so be it, while i do not support it i see no difference between Israel deliberately bombing civilians

Israel does not deliberately target civilians (unless you mean civilians building bombs)

and Hamas or some other such freedom fighter group doing it,

Hamas's founding documents call for the destruction of Israel....I'd call that terrorism.

the Zionists have a long history of deliberately killing civilians going all the way back to the 1940s, anyone with a decent knowledge of history would not deny this and to condemn Palestinians while Israel does the same on a MUCH larger scale is pure hypocrisy, talk about blinkers.

I love the way you imply that Israel was "killing civilians" even before it even existed, neat trick that.

Ignoring the 4 Arab nations which attacked Israel on the day it declared independence, who made promises they couldn't deliver.

Just once I'd like people to remember that Palestinian "Right of Return" is contingent on desiring peaceful co-existance. (guess that excludes Hamas)


But like I said, let the Palestinians have a state. How long could they resist attacking Israel?

 

[Fader4]

I love the way you imply that Israel was "killing civilians" even before it even existed

if you bother to read correctly you would notice i said "Zionists" and as you may or may not know this depraved ideology was around long before Israel declared independence.... it took a while to ship those 800000 colonists in after all.... in any case if you bothered to examine history you would know that the Zionists were prolific terrorists, massacring non Jew by any means necessary, no quarter was given to Palestinian civilians or British soldiers, of course history tries to whitewash the fact that Israel was founded through terrorism and ethnic cleansing.

 

[alloytoo]

if you bother to read correctly you would notice i said "Zionists" and as you may or may not know this depraved ideology was around long before Israel declared independence.... it took a while to ship those 800000 colonists in after all.... in any case if you bothered to examine history you would know that the Zionists were prolific terrorists, massacring non Jew by any means necessary, no quarter was given to Palestinian civilians or British soldiers, of course history tries to whitewash the fact that Israel was founded through terrorism and ethnic cleansing.

No, the state of Israel was founded through UN resolution 181 which called for an end to the British mandate of Palestine and the formation of two states. We're still waiting for the second one.

The state of Israel is a democracy, has a coalition government and allows freedom of religion. It sits at 15 on the Human development index (Very high).

 

[TheHiveMind]

Actually, that would be good for Israel. If "terrorist" organisations regain control of Palestine, Israel can use that to support their claim that Palestinians are an evil bunch of violent thugs who need to kept under control.

Pretty much. I suspect mossad is behind most of the leaks, based only on the impact the leaks are having.