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The Proteas - Our Team!
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http://www.sport24.co.za/Cricket/Vaughans-early-salvo-at-SA-20120508
I think we have 3 great fast bowlers (Morkel, Steyn, Philander) and we still have to see what tahir can do (no he is not a Swann sadly). I feel we also have a bit of a partnership breaker thing going with both Kallis and Duminy (if he is playing).
Time will tell, I just hope our batting shapes trumps their's.
I think we have 3 great fast bowlers (Morkel, Steyn, Philander) and we still have to see what tahir can do (no he is not a Swann sadly). I feel we also have a bit of a partnership breaker thing going with both Kallis and Duminy (if he is playing).
Time will tell, I just hope our batting shapes trumps their's.
Look, if Biff is ready he should in any case not play ODI’s, he simply is not good enough anymore, time and time again they have showed his incapability of the leg side, they can just as well nick name him Graeme (LBW) Smith.
Funny how he can perform in test matches but not ODI’s, if he gets selected in the ODI’s i’ll pick him at NR5 and leave the opening for someone who can actually face the new ball.
Albie Morkel really is not good enough in the international scene, he is not a good batsman nor is he a good bowler, being pretty average in both does not justify him as being selected as a all-rounder.
If we look at history, all the good all rounders where or a good batsman who can bowl or a good bowler who could bat, Albie isn’t either.
My ODI team will look like this
1.H.Amla
2.A.Peterson
3.J.Kallis
4.AB.De Villiers (WK)(C)
5.F.Du Plesis
6.R.Levi
7. J.Duminy
8. V.Philander
9. M.Morkel
10. D.Steyn
11.I.Tahir
Test
1.H.Amla
2.A.Peterson
3.J.Kallis
4.AB De Villiers (VC)
5.J.Rudolph
6.G.Smith (C)
7. H.Khun (K)
8.V.Philander
9.M.Morkel
10.D.Steyn
11.I.Tahir
In the ODI’s the bowling will be covered, with 4 specialist bowlers and 3 allrounders
The Test Matches we might opt to drop one of batsmen for a allrounder
Speedster
Honorary Master
Haters will hate...
Biff's has a fifty and a hundred in his last three ODI's - what does he need to do to "still' be good enough? And why are you picking Levi at no 6? Actually, why are you picking him at all - the guy has had one good inning for SA?
Also, Tahir above Robin P / Botha, you've got to be kidding me (for ODIs).
EDIT: Biff played 6 ODIs in 2012, averaging 39.67. He has only been out LBW once since the beginning of 2011 (over 20 innings) so I'm not sure what you're on about. Also, he is currently ranked above Sehwag, Tendulkar, Gayle & Warner (all openers) in the ICC rankings.
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Really, ja, and you forgot to mention the match after that he scored 9 and the 3 matched before that he scored 2, 28 and 6.
He is to inconsistent in the ODI’s, i have no problem with his Test batting.
And the fact that you name Botha and Peterson above Tahir shows me you don’t really know what you are talking about
Robin Peterson First class, 123 matches, 349 wickets, average of 32
Johan Botha First Class, 67 Matches, 156 wickets at a average of 31
Imran Tahir First Class, 148 matches, 619 wickets, average of 25
O and before you come with “that’s first class, not ODI’s”
Robin Peterson ODI, 55 matches, 49 wickets, average of 35.7
Johan Botha ODI, 78 matches, 72 wickets, average of 40.5 (wow, that’s brilliant hey)
Imran Tahir ODI, 5 matches, 14 wickets, average of 10.71
I guess you really made your point hey
A 5 year old can tell you who’s the beter spinner
Edit. And ja, i pick Levi at nr6, who does not want a big hitter after 40 overs, the bowlers are tired and the ball is soft, i don’t think he is good enough to open, but i do think he is good enough for a power hitter at the end of a innings or needing 50 runs from 25 balls or a scenario like that
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Speedster
Honorary Master
So he "only" averages 39.67 over his last 6 innings. You're right, drop him. And then replace him with Petersen - he's played 7 ODI's for SA since Jan 2010 averaging 13.57. Great call!
What you're not saying is that all Tahir's ODI's have been on the subcontinent. How do you think he'll do on the greentops in England?
For that role I'd rather go with a Morkel or Miller.
EDIT: And another thing. Why aren't you picking the world's number one ODI bowler?
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Peterson still has to prove himself, no doubt
But i still think there are beter batsman than Smith in ODI’s (in the opening role), why not just move him to Nr4 or 5?, maybe he can get that 39.67 up to the 45’s ?
And yes, Tahir had a great run at the subcontinent, but please tell me where Botha/Robin has had any success?, even on the “greentops” in England i will still say Tahir will do beter than both of them. I don’t know if you have noticed, but Tahir can actually spin the ball, (both ways), neither Botha or Peterson has yet to really spin the ball, Johan had a good run when he was allowed the Doorsa.
If i had to choose between Botha/Peterson i would go Peterson.
As for the Levi comment, i would really not go for either, David Miller has played 35 first class matches, he averages 28, to me that really is not good enough, Levi averages 37 in his First class career.
Albie Morkel actually averages very good in his first class career, in 75 matches he averages 45, with 8 hundreds and 23 fifties, but in that same breath on the ODI scene he has played 58 matches and only averages 23, again, that’s really not good enough
So that why i lean towards Levi, i can’t predict the future, maybe he also fails, or maybe he is the next lance Klusener
Note, it’s not like i don’t like Smith, when he get going he normally does good, i just dot like it when guys gets 1 great innings and 4 poor ones, i can really see him be very successful lower in the order.
edit, i forgot about Lopsy
, my bad, that chances everything, Guess I’ll have to sacrifice Levi for Lopsy
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AirWolf
Honorary Master
In List A Tahir still has the best average at 22.33 compared to Botha's 38.67 and Peterson's 28.49.
Major teams South Africa, Dolphins, Easterns, Hampshire, Lahore Blues, Lahore City, Lahore Lions, Lahore Ravi, Lahore Whites, Middlesex, Pakistan A, Pakistan International Airlines, Redco Pakistan Ltd, Sialkot, Staffordshire, Sui Gas Corporation of Pakistan, Titans, Warwickshire, Water and Power Development Authority, Yorkshire
And he's played for three county teams.
Edit: 4 teams
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My ODI team will look like this
1.H.Amla
2.Biff (If he fails more than 3 times he does not get to play again in the next series)
3.J.Kallis
4.AB.De Villiers (WK)(C)
5.F.Du Plesis
6. A Morkel (Now and again I would give him a license and send him in at 3)
7. J.Duminy
8. V.Philander / de Lange
9. M.Morkel
10. D.Steyn
11.I.Tahir / Robbies Peterson / Botha - Horses for courses.
Test
1.H.Amla
2.Biff
3.J.Kallis
4.AB De Villiers (VC)
5.J.Rudolph
6. Duminy (if he has sorted out his problem with the short ball - which he seems to have doen)
7. H.Khun (K)
8.V.Philander
9.M.Morkel
10.D.Steyn
11.I.Tahir
We have so many Bowling options in the ODI team:
Kallis
Faf
Duminey
+
5 x "Real" Bowlers
1.H.Amla
2.Biff (If he fails more than 3 times he does not get to play again in the next series)
3.J.Kallis
4.AB.De Villiers (WK)(C)
5.F.Du Plesis
6. A Morkel (Now and again I would give him a license and send him in at 3)
7. J.Duminy
8. V.Philander / de Lange
9. M.Morkel
10. D.Steyn
11.I.Tahir / Robbies Peterson / Botha - Horses for courses.
Test
1.H.Amla
2.Biff
3.J.Kallis
4.AB De Villiers (VC)
5.J.Rudolph
6. Duminy (if he has sorted out his problem with the short ball - which he seems to have doen)
7. H.Khun (K)
8.V.Philander
9.M.Morkel
10.D.Steyn
11.I.Tahir
We have so many Bowling options in the ODI team:
Kallis
Faf
Duminey
+
5 x "Real" Bowlers
AirWolf
Honorary Master
+1
Four county teams - edited my post.
And I'm not saying that the other two should be dropped - some conditions warrant more than one spinner to be played.
Agreed, if the need comes, play Robin Peterson with Tahir,
But Johan Botha is out, nothing he does justifies his inclusion, if one could only switch his batting/bowling averages
Speedster
Honorary Master
If I was looking at another opener I wouldn't go for a 32 year old (Peterson), I'd much rather look at blooding a youngster instead. As far as the middle order I'd go with Kallis, de Villiers, du Plessis so there isn't really any space for Smith in there. But, honestly, averaging 40 as an opener is really nothing to be frowned upon.
Botha has a way of drying up the runs in a big way. I would go without a spinner in England, but if I had to pick a spinner it wouldn't be Tahir. Robin P or Botha.
My ODI team (in England) would be Smith, Amla, Kallis, de Villiers (c/wk), du Plessis, Duminy, Miller / Albie, Steyn, Philander, Morne, Tsotsobe.
Speedster
Honorary Master
No place for the world's no 1 ODI bowler?
Sorry I meant to take out Philander and Include Tsotsobe
(I C&P from Lament's post).If Smith could get 30 – 40 every 4-5 consecutive matches, then YES, no doubt, but like i said earlier, he is to inconsistent, but lets agree to leave him as a opener until someone new comes along.
Johan Botha is a very economical bowler, with that i can’t argue, he is like the Shaun Pollock of SA Spinners looking at his economy, but the difference between him and Pollock is Pollock was economical and he took wickets, i just can’t justify selecting someone who keeps the runs down but hardly ever takes a wicket.
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Sorry I meant to take out Philander and Include Tsotsobe
I would not drop Philander, depending on the pitch conditions, i would sacrifice Tahir or Levi in my original team.
Philander is to bloody good to be dropped, talking about Pollock in my previous post, i have not seen anyone since Pollock who could bowl the perfect line and length consistently like Philander.
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
I wouldn't have Philander in the ODI team, I'd keep him as a test specialist. Lopsy is an excellent limited overs bowler, so I'd have him or De Lange in place of Philander.
+1. I would if forced play Philander but people shuld remember that bowling in tests and bowling in ODIs are not the same, although he might just surprise us
permanentmarker
Well-Known Member
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As far as a test XI goes, I cannot see us changing much. We have been fairly consistent, and when one of our top order has failed, another has made up for it (barring that massive collapse and 96 all out vs. Oz).
However, I would suggest that JP Duminy has done enough to force his inclusion into the side. He has been a regular and consistent performer for the ODI team and I believe has matured since his last proper chance in the test squad. As a result, I think one of either Petersen or Rudolph needs to go. Personally, I'm a big fan of Rudolph so he'd stay in my XI. I know that CSA will by no means drop Petersen though, so I think it is unlikely that they will make a ballsy decision like that.
My test XI (Batting Order) for the tour of England.
GC Smith*
JA Rudolph
HM Amla
J Kallis
AB de Villiers
JP Duminy
MV Boucher†
DW Steyn
VD Philander
M Morkel
I Tahir
Tahir is the natural test choice, where the odd bad ball is less likely to be punished. Boucher stays in the side because of his remarkable test bowling statistics - S/R: 8, Average: 6 (Kidding, it's his last tour, and the man should not have his place disputed like vultures so close to his departure).
With regards to our ODI squad, I believe that Biff has been invaluable over the last 10 years, and after an incredibly lengthy dry patch is on the up. His past few ODI scores have justified his inclusion. Note: Openers for both tests and ODIs have struggled over the past year, where pitches have generally had a lot more assistance for the bowlers than in the years that have preceded it. While we have become accustomed to huge opening partnerships, the global trend does not suggest that we are alone in losing an opener early. Give Biff a break, if he performs poorly in England, then maybe have a go at him, but until then, he is undeserving of all this negative criticism.
My ODI XI
GC Smith
HM Amla
J Kallis
AB de Villiers †*
F du Plessis
JP Duminy
A. Morkel
DW Steyn
M Morkel
I Tahir
L Tsotsobe
This team has a lot more punch up the order, but a concerning tail without the added all-rounder role played by the primary spinner. As a result, a lot more pressure will be placed on a misfiring top order, and an out of form A. Morkel. For the short term, a bowling all-rounder like R Peterson might be a better pick than I Tahir, but once we've cemented a top order that works consistently, I believe Tahir has more potential to inflict chaos in ODIs (particularly in the subcontinent). Again though, Tahir has the potential to be bloody expensive with the ball and his spells may have to be shortened on the odd bad day, with Duminy and du Plessis rolling the arm to fill overs in the middle overs.
However, I would suggest that JP Duminy has done enough to force his inclusion into the side. He has been a regular and consistent performer for the ODI team and I believe has matured since his last proper chance in the test squad. As a result, I think one of either Petersen or Rudolph needs to go. Personally, I'm a big fan of Rudolph so he'd stay in my XI. I know that CSA will by no means drop Petersen though, so I think it is unlikely that they will make a ballsy decision like that.
My test XI (Batting Order) for the tour of England.
GC Smith*
JA Rudolph
HM Amla
J Kallis
AB de Villiers
JP Duminy
MV Boucher†
DW Steyn
VD Philander
M Morkel
I Tahir
Tahir is the natural test choice, where the odd bad ball is less likely to be punished. Boucher stays in the side because of his remarkable test bowling statistics - S/R: 8, Average: 6 (Kidding, it's his last tour, and the man should not have his place disputed like vultures so close to his departure).
With regards to our ODI squad, I believe that Biff has been invaluable over the last 10 years, and after an incredibly lengthy dry patch is on the up. His past few ODI scores have justified his inclusion. Note: Openers for both tests and ODIs have struggled over the past year, where pitches have generally had a lot more assistance for the bowlers than in the years that have preceded it. While we have become accustomed to huge opening partnerships, the global trend does not suggest that we are alone in losing an opener early. Give Biff a break, if he performs poorly in England, then maybe have a go at him, but until then, he is undeserving of all this negative criticism.
My ODI XI
GC Smith
HM Amla
J Kallis
AB de Villiers †*
F du Plessis
JP Duminy
A. Morkel
DW Steyn
M Morkel
I Tahir
L Tsotsobe
This team has a lot more punch up the order, but a concerning tail without the added all-rounder role played by the primary spinner. As a result, a lot more pressure will be placed on a misfiring top order, and an out of form A. Morkel. For the short term, a bowling all-rounder like R Peterson might be a better pick than I Tahir, but once we've cemented a top order that works consistently, I believe Tahir has more potential to inflict chaos in ODIs (particularly in the subcontinent). Again though, Tahir has the potential to be bloody expensive with the ball and his spells may have to be shortened on the odd bad day, with Duminy and du Plessis rolling the arm to fill overs in the middle overs.
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