The Rugby thread

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Its amazing that our MBB experts seem to know more than a coach that has won 2 back to back RWC's. As the coach does not seem worried about Manie.
They probably want Heyneke Meyer and Morne Steyn back.

 

[Cray]

Its amazing that our MBB experts seem to know more than a coach that has won 2 back to back RWC's. As the coach does not seem worried about Manie.

Clearly there is some concern about his goal kicking or he would have been doing the goal kicking on Saturday.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Clearly there is some concern about his goal kicking or he would have been doing the goal kicking on Saturday.

But Pollard hasn’t always been a world-class goal-kicker. Back in 2015, he missed several attempts at goal in the landmark loss to Argentina in Durban, and as a result, travelled to the World Cup later that year as the understudy to Pat Lambie.

He blew hot and cold at the 2019 tournament in Japan, and even missed his first attempt of the decider against England, before regaining his composure to nail all of his subsequent kicks.

Some may have forgotten about what transpired in the 2021 Lions series, where South Africa’s premier fly-half and goal-kicker – a player who had already won a World Cup – was hooked in the final moments of the decisive Test.

The coaches made a cold and calculated call to replace Pollard with Morné Steyn, a decision that was certainly justified after Steyn kicked two penalties and steered South Africa to a monumental series victory. Pollard made a number of important contributions in general play over the course of those three Tests, but it was left to Steyn to steer the side home.

Bok coaches face toughest call yet following Pollard’s timely return

Manie Libbok's talent is not in doubt but the return of South Africa's most consistent kicker bodes well for the knockout stages

www.rugbypass.com

 

[Cray]

Bok coaches face toughest call yet following Pollard’s timely return

Manie Libbok's talent is not in doubt but the return of South Africa's most consistent kicker bodes well for the knockout stages

www.rugbypass.com

Not saying that Pollard was always the kicker he is now, I just don't believe he was ever as sketchy as Manie can be. I read somewhere that he was kicking at 42%, not sure Pollard has even been that bad.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Not saying that Pollard was always the kicker he is now, I just don't believe he was ever as sketchy as Manie can be. I read somewhere that he was kicking at 42%, not sure Pollard has even been that bad.

Nope you read what some clown on MBB made up his own stats from 3 or 4 games that suited his narrative.

 

[Cray]

Nope you read what some clown on MBB made up his own stats from 3 or 4 games that suited his narrative.

Nope, i read it here,

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ever...-after-manie-libboks-latest-kicking-meltdown/

Another observed: “Manie Libbok is at 42 per cent this season from the kicking tee… The strange thing about Manie Libbok’s goalkicking is that a lot of his missed kicks for the Boks are easier short distance kicks from not too wide out either.
I’ve seen him make harder kicks directly on the touchline in Stormers blue. Once he puts that green jersey on idk man.”

Obviously that is just a rando person on twitter but would like to see his actual stats kicking stats for the Boks.

 

[netstrider]

So let me just get this right.
You comparing flyhalf's points per match, that played in Springbok teams that played 10 man forwards and kick gameplans to a flyhalf that now play in a team that try to run the ball and score tries?

We don't always score a bunch of tries just because Libbok is on the field.

Let us not forget 3 tries were scored with Pollard on the field in 15 minutes this past weekend. You have to take the state of the opposition into account also. Then, against Ireland at RWC 2023, we scored 1 try.

Libbok has been fortunate to play in games against really poor opposition too like Australia at Loftus last year as well as a very weak Wales team last year and Tonga. This year he played against Portugal. So yes, the score will be higher there regardless of who plays 10.

In fact, he missed several conversions against Portugal if I'm not mistaken, then Sacha gets brought on and kicks 5/5.

The fact is the more tries are scored you'd think the more opportunity for conversions to rack up points but his average is 5.22 a game.

Nothing wrong with his running game but his kicking has cost us two crucial games before (Ireland 2023, Argentina 2024) and it nearly cost us against England in 2024 but Pollard was wisely brought on to save our bacon.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

But but but, if you say anything negative about Manie, you're a racist

That trend has been pyssing on my gravy the last few weeks hey, ugh.

Its amazing that our MBB experts seem to know more than a coach that has won 2 back to back RWC's. As the coach does not seem worried about Manie.
They probably want Heyneke Meyer and Morne Steyn back.

As I was saying ........ social media is full of your kind mate, ridiculous

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Nope, i read it here,

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ever...-after-manie-libboks-latest-kicking-meltdown/


Obviously that is just a rando person on twitter but would like to see his actual stats kicking stats for the Boks.

Yes just a fan on twitter.
End of the day Pollard was just as hot and cold as Manie when he was young. Just as I said from the beginning.
Players mature over time and can handle the stress and pressure better. Trust the coach that won us 2 RWC's.
And no not every player mature, but give him time to see if he does. Not like some crazy coaches we had before that just drops players left and right after a bad game or two.
No use in having a great kicker at 10 and he is so bad in getting the backline going that you never reach a final to show of your BMT.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

As I was saying ........ social media is full of your kind mate, ridiculous

OMG check the victimhood. What does a Blue Bull coach and player have to do with race?

 

[netstrider]

You make it sound like Libbok is 22 years old or something. He is 27.

He made his Debut at age 25, at that age Pollard had already won his first RWC. Kicked a clutch penalty in the 19 - 16 Win over Wales in the semi-final. 2 years younger than Manie is now.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

You make it sound like Libbok is 22 years old or something. He is 27.

He made his Debut at age 25, at that age Pollard had already won his first RWC. Kicked a clutch penalty in the 19 - 16 Win over Wales in the semi-final. 2 years younger than Manie is now.

Yes you don't get experience in rugby with your birthdays. You get it from playing many games and experiencing tense situations. There is a big difference between Currie cup and test match rugby. But the MBB experts should know that.

 

[netstrider]

Yes you don't get experience in rugby with your birthdays. You get it from playing many games and experiencing tense situations. There is a big difference between Currie cup and test match rugby. But the MBB experts should know that.

You also don't get to kick for the Boks with Manie's record. I'm not even sorry to say that but learning to kick should not be done while on Bok duty. If you are going to be kicker you must be the best in the country at that by definition, or as close as possible if you are 2nd or 3rd in line to kick.

You can't learn how to pass while playing international rugby. Also, as Naas Botha says, if you start playing rugby by age 5 or age 7-ish, how inexperienced can you be at the core tenets of the game by the time you make the national team?

Just something to think about.

 

[sand_man]

Look reading this thread it is obvious that you and a few others know absolutely nothing about rugby/sport, So let me just help you.
You comparing a guy thats been playing international rugby for 10 years with almost 80 caps to a guy that has been playing for less than 2 years and has less than 20 caps.
Do you even think before you type?
Pollard missed plenty kicks right in front of the poles when he was a young Springbok.

Why do you keep referencing Pollard? Is he the gold standard in your "expert" opinion?

Let's compare Manie to an international player with 8 caps then, Sasha Feinberg-Mngomezulu. Heard of him?

How did an inexperienced Morne Steyn do at the start of his international career? Heard of him?

In the last 7 tests Manie has a 60% success rate. Not conjecture, FACT! Look it up.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

You also don't get to kick for the Boks with Manie's record. I'm not even sorry to say that but learning to kick should not be done while on Bok duty. If you are going to be kicker you must be the best in the country at that by definition, or as close as possible if you are 2nd or 3rd in line to kick.

You can't learn how to pass while playing international rugby. Also, as Naas Botha says, if you start playing rugby by age 5 or age 7-ish, how inexperienced can you be at the core tenets of the game by the time you make the national team?

Just something to think about.

Yes Pollard was not the best kicker in the country for half of his career, Steyn was. Yet they chose Pollard most of the time?

 

[sand_man]

Nope you read what some clown on MBB made up his own stats from 3 or 4 games that suited his narrative.

Not made up, checked and verified. And why the name calling? Can you not have debate without resorting to insults?

 

[sand_man]

Its amazing that our MBB experts seem to know more than a coach that has won 2 back to back RWC's. As the coach does not seem worried about Manie.
They probably want Heyneke Meyer and Morne Steyn back.

A coach that replaced an injured hooker with a flyhalf? He was prepared to play just about an entire world cup campaign with 1 specialist hooker.

Rassie's blatantly aware of Manie's deficiencies.

 

[Speedster]

Yes Pollard was not the best kicker in the country for half of his career, Steyn was. Yet they chose Pollard most of the time?

Fly-halves don't get picked on their goal kicking alone, but they do get not-picked based on their goal kicking. Manie's best hope for an extended run in green and gold is a) injury to SFM and b) another player to put their hand up as first choice kicker ala Sterling Mortlock.

 

[sand_man]

You also don't get to kick for the Boks with Manie's record. I'm not even sorry to say that but learning to kick should not be done while on Bok duty. If you are going to be kicker you must be the best in the country at that by definition, or as close as possible if you are 2nd or 3rd in line to kick.

You can't learn how to pass while playing international rugby. Also, as Naas Botha says, if you start playing rugby by age 5 or age 7-ish, how inexperienced can you be at the core tenets of the game by the time you make the national team?

Just something to think about.

Point is he can kick, just not in clutch moments when wearing a green and gold jersey.. URC he averages around 73% over 3 seasons...

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Why do you keep referencing Pollard? Is he the gold standard in your "expert" opinion?

Let's compare Manie to an international player with 8 caps then, Sasha Feinberg-Mngomezulu. Heard of him?

How did an inexperienced Morne Steyn do at the start of his international career? Heard of him?

In the last 7 tests Manie has a 60% success rate. Not conjecture, FACT! Look it up.

So you moving the goal posts? Must I copy all your post around this discussion where you referenced Pollard?
Sasha has played 8 games, lets see after 20 how the stats look. Sure he looks like the better kicker and player at this stage. But what if he is injured before a world cup. That is why we need 2-3 players in every position with enough caps and experience, especially in vital positions like 10. You want to fall back to Jantjies?
Every kicker does not start bad. I said that Pollard did and nobody complains about him.