The SA Politics Thread Part 3

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rietrot said:
There is nothing wrong with the EFF being all black that is irrelevant. EFF's problems are far greater than that. White people can be communist idiots to.

There's also nothing wrong with VF+ being all white. They are currently the best political party we have.
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Nobody questions the makeup of those parties because they are honest about who and what they represent in the VF+ case, it is white Afrikaners and in the EFF's case, black people.

The DA shoot themselves in the foot by doing things like focusing more on Afrikaans people's concerns ahead of other groups and minority groups (who also have similar concerns) but then claiming "they represent everyone".

The DA give far more attention to the issue of Afrikaners than they do to coloured people for instance, who are a big share of their voter base. This group is also feeling left out by the party and deserting it for the PA yet these voters, it seems are of less concern than the ones it lost to the VF+.
 
JuliusSeizure said:
Nobody questions the makeup of those parties because they are honest about who and what they represent in the VF+ case, it is white Afrikaners and in the EFF's case, black people.

The DA shoot themselves in the foot by doing things like focusing more on Afrikaans people's concerns ahead of other groups and minority groups (who also have similar concerns) but then claiming "they represent everyone".

The DA give far more attention to the issue of Afrikaners than they do to coloured people for instance, who are a big share of their voter base. This group is also feeling left out by the party and deserting it for the PA yet these voters, it seems are of less concern than the ones it lost to the VF+.
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Nonsense the VF+ is not exclusively for white Afrikaners.

Most of what you say here is BS. You are falsely equating rate and tax payers that want good governance with white people. And poor shack dwellers as all the black people.

The DA does more for both these groups than the ANC. They are very socialist which is not in favour of the actual rate payers.
 
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JuliusSeizure said:
Not sure what you are on about, I just pointed out Groenewald supported Apartheid which is a historical fact.
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So is Mandela being a terrorist. It is a historical fact. And just as relevant after 94 as Groenewald's political history.
He did far less wrong than Mandela, there was valid pragmatic reasons for his view.
 
JuliusSeizure said:
Recently they have been trying to reach out to colored communities but Afrikaner nationalism is a big part of their ideology and their main focus.

https://imgur.com/a/qDnP7sO
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Define Afrikaner nationalism? If we actually get SA working again everyone benefits.

There is nothing wrong with having a positive identity for Afrikaners. That's also why I like the IFP they offer the same for Zulus, and I would consider them if I lived in the KZN midlands.

It would be great if such parties could form collisions. How exactly you think that is nationalism if all the other people are acknowledged and respected fairly, I don't know.
 
rietrot said:
Define Afrikaner nationalism? If we actually get SA working again everyone benefits.

There is nothing wrong with having a positive identity for Afrikaners. That's also why I like the IFP they offer the same for Zulus, and I would consider them if I lived in the KZN midlands.
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You are going off-topic again. All I said was that the VF+ main focus is on Afrikaner nationalism just as the IFP's is on Zulu nationalism.

Whether nationalism is good or bad is something we can debate another day. Both parties are rooted in identity politics though.
 
JuliusSeizure said:
You are going off-topic again. All I said was that the VF+ main focus is on Afrikaner nationalism just as the IFP's is on Zulu nationalism.

Whether nationalism is good or bad is something we can debate another day. Both parties are rooted in identity politics though.
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It is not off topic to say your definition of nationalism is wrong, we cannot debate if it is good or bad if you don't even know what it is.
 
JuliusSeizure said:
Yes.

He was mayor of Stilfontein in the 80s under the Conservative Party. It was the party that believed the National Party was too moderate and which campaigned for the no vote during the 1992 referendum.

Always laughable how his party moan about quotas when he supported it through WEE reservations under the old regime

The VF+ was formed as a merger of various (Afrikaner interest orientated groups), among them the CP which is how Oom Pieter found himself in the VF+.
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So we believe that criminals can change, can be rehabilitated but white ooms not so much?
 
ghaye said:
So we believe that criminals can change, can be rehabilitated but white ooms not so much?
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Groenewald refuses to condemn Apartheid.

And not sure why you are making that claim. We all know some like Beyers Naude were rehabilitated and went on to speak out against the system but I am doubtful Groenewald changed his views.

www.politicsweb.co.za

Speaking to the opposition (III): Pieter Groenewald | Politicsweb

Gabriel Makin asks the FF Plus leader for his views on self-determination, and apartheid
www.politicsweb.co.za www.politicsweb.co.za
 
JuliusSeizure said:
This is not true on a per capita basis.

There is no question that the DA get a lot more votes than Action SA (by being a more established party) but Action SA did win wards across the racial divide (in townships and urban areas) in 2021 which the DA have not yet done.

On a per capita basis, Action SA's support is almost certainly more diverse than DA, largely because they campaign around the message on reducing immigration which is more relatable to different people.

Also, your claim about the leadership is very questionable. The wards they won in suburbs were the result of the former DA member (most often white) defecting and taking their following along.
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Check the leadership of ActionSA and the DA's in the link I posted.

Secondly:
Picture2-1024x657.png

DA's support is neatly split into thirds between Whites, Blacks, and Coloured/Indians. ASA's support is majority White, with next to no rep among Coloured and Indian voters, and Black voters coming in second.
 
JuliusSeizure said:
Groenewald refuses to condemn Apartheid.

And not sure why you are making that claim. We all know some like Beyers Naude were rehabilitated and went on to speak out against the system but I am doubtful Groenewald changed his views.

www.politicsweb.co.za

Speaking to the opposition (III): Pieter Groenewald | Politicsweb

Gabriel Makin asks the FF Plus leader for his views on self-determination, and apartheid
www.politicsweb.co.za www.politicsweb.co.za
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I asked him why he was unwilling to condemn apartheid and he responded by asking why he should have to condemn a system that is long gone and that no one wishes to see returned? In following up on this I then cited a line from the preamble of the constitution, ‘We, the people of South Africa, recognize the injustices of our past’ and asked him if he was willing to recognize that apartheid was an injustice. He agreed that, indeed, apartheid, was certainly an injustice and we left it at that.
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So he agrees that it wasn't ok, but he refuses to condemn it?

Strange stance.
 
rietrot said:
It would be great if such parties could form collisions. How exactly you think that is nationalism if all the other people are acknowledged and respected fairly, I don't know.
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IMO I think if VF+ and IFP merged into one big conservative party, they'll be quite the electoral force in SA.

Because let's be real, there ain't much difference between the two except perhaps their target markets and history, but their general ideologies link up relatively.
 
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