The SA Politics Thread Part 3

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JuliusSeizure said:
Comparing Zille and Mmusi's time 2014 and 2019 isint actually fair. Zille was competing against Zuma and Maimane against Ramaphosa when the New Dawn was in full swing. Maimane was with his flaws but had Zille been competing against Ramaphosa, she too would not have done as she did in 2014.

Critics of Maimane also hesitate to give him any credit for 2016 when he was virtually competing against Zuma
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I'm not comparing the two.

I'm stating a very obvious and simple fact. Black people do not just vote for another black person. Even you like the other white guy, Alen Winde.

I only said this because I saw some stupid complaints from white progressive that JS is white. There's a lot wrong with JS but muh, representation is not it.
 
TheChamp said:
Very successful in building the party and very successful in destroying it, not really the kind of success anyone is looking for. It's not only other parties who have a problem with her, even those within the party are at peace with just how much of a liability she is, but no one is brave enough to take her on.
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You are exaggerating how bad it is, they are still sticking together because the ANC is worse. But it is technically true. The DA will have to split again in the future as there is still the confusion between the classical liberals and progressives. Or the Zille types leading the party in the correct direction will just die off.
 
rietrot said:
You are exaggerating how bad it is, they are still sticking together because the ANC is worse. But it is technically true. The DA will have to split again in the future as there is still the confusion between the classical liberals and progressives. Or the Zille types leading the party in the correct direction will just die off.
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Zille's correct direction is keeping the party a 20% party, and hoping there's enough parties like ActionSA, Freedom Front and IFP who will unite behind it to give it power, only because she is afraid if she opens the party up then the right wingers will leave and she will lose power.

Others see a future that goes beyond what Zille is satisfied with, for now Zille has all the power, so those who don't like it will have to suck it up.
 
TheChamp said:
Zille's correct direction is keeping the party a 20% party, and hoping there's enough parties like ActionSA, Freedom Front and IFP who will unite behind it to give it power, only because she is afraid if she opens the party up then the right wingers will leave and she will lose power.

Others see a future that goes beyond what Zille is satisfied with, for now Zille has all the power, so those who don't like it will have to suck it up.
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Nope if they could stop being confused about what they actually stand for most centrist like me would return, the large majority of South Africa's voting age population are conservative but will settle with a competent classically liberal party.

Just calling everyone not as progressive as you right wing is silly.

This is why the ANC maintains the more rural vote. Because they appeal to traditional values which is conservative not progressive.
 
rietrot said:
You are exaggerating how bad it is, they are still sticking together because the ANC is worse. But it is technically true. The DA will have to split again in the future as there is still the confusion between the classical liberals and progressives. Or the Zille types leading the party in the correct direction will just die off.
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They have purged the progressive faction and the progressives there now stay in their lane. If they do speak up, they get purged.

The DA is now mainly centre-right as it was under Tony Leon.
 
TheChamp said:
Zille's correct direction is keeping the party a 20% party, and hoping there's enough parties like ActionSA, Freedom Front and IFP who will unite behind it to give it power, only because she is afraid if she opens the party up then the right wingers will leave and she will lose power.
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I'm not even sure if it's to keep it a 20% party. They don't seem to be concerned about the loss of votes to the PA as they were to the VF+ so perhaps they are only concerned about cementing the support of that demographic?
 
JuliusSeizure said:
I'm not even sure if it's to keep it a 20% party. They don't seem to be concerned about the loss of votes to the PA as they were to the VF+ so perhaps they are only concerned about cementing the support of that demographic?
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Because the VF+ ones are deemed the core of the party according to Zille, everyone else is free to go back wherever they came from as long as the core of the party is taken care of.
 
JuliusSeizure said:
I'm not even sure if it's to keep it a 20% party. They don't seem to be concerned about the loss of votes to the PA as they were to the VF+ so perhaps they are only concerned about cementing the support of that demographic?
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I really don't see DA below 20%. There is lot of anti-incumbency this time around.
 
surface said:
I really don't see DA below 20%. There is lot of anti-incumbency this time around.
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The DA also benefit by virtue of them having a more loyal electorate who usually turns up for elections. I expect even more non-turnout from ANC voters in the next elections.
 
rietrot said:
Even you like the other white guy, Alen Winde.
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I don't agree with all of Winde's stances but he is a genuine politician who I respect because he sticks to his guns and is not trying to pander to the deplorables who most probably would have voted for Trump if they could.
 
wingnut771 said:
Newzroom Africa didn't even get the quote right.
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Yup.

The "party" in the last sentence should be "country".

And it's true, since the NP came to power via coalition in 48 right through to current ANC rule, only one-party rule. Next year will be the first time in 75 years SA will be truly governed by coalition.
 
The_Right_Honourable_Brit said:
It's kind of weird thinking though. I rate Zille as a better politician than JS. Hill-Lewis is also better than JS but I recognise he needs a bit more time and he is really doing a fantastic job as CT mayor.

But is it because she'd be so successful that other parties like to target her?
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Hill-Lewis isn't a better politician than JS. Winde yes, but not the feather weight (obviously not his literal weight) Lewis. Hill-Lewis is a good manager, but still very inexperienced as a politician. The DA are however promoting him and you seem to be buying into their sales pitch. It's actually interesting that they're polishing him and promoting him instead of Winde who is a politician and probably a natural successor to Zille. Suppose Winde might not be interested in moving out of the comfy premier's mansion.
 
R13... said:
Hill-Lewis isn't a better politician than JS. Winde yes, but not the feather weight (obviously not his literal weight) Lewis. Hill-Lewis is a good manager, but still very inexperienced as a politician. The DA are however promoting him and you seem to be buying into their sales pitch. It's actually interesting that they're polishing him and promoting him instead of Winde who is a politician and probably a natural successor to Zille. Suppose Winde might not be interested in moving out of the comfy premier's mansion.
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They needed someone who would be subservient to the actual leader (i.e Helen Zille). Winde isn't the type (his stances sometimes go against DA messaging) and Hill-Lewis was probably viewed as too young.
 
R13... said:
His declaration of the EFF as enemy number 1 was unnecessary and just reinforces the position that he's Zille's puppet. This position on the EFF is a Zille position. It was unnecessary to try to antagonize the DA much as Hill-Lewis did and got ignored around the shutdown thing.
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On an ideological scale, it's true. The two are polar opposites and of course natural enemies.

Secondly, JS clearly said yesterday that the goal was to block an ANC-EFF coalition (aka aptly named Doomsday Coalition) and remove ANC entirely.

I.e. Announced coalition intentions. No ANC, No EFF, only UF.
 
R13... said:
His declaration of the EFF as enemy number 1 was unnecessary and just reinforces the position that he's Zille's puppet. This position on the EFF is a Zille position. It was unnecessary to try to antagonize the DA much as Hill-Lewis did and got ignored around the shutdown thing.
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Actually his declaration of the EFF as enemy number 1 was entirely necessary. They are Public Enemy no 1 without a shadow of a doubt. If we think the ANC have been bad for this country, the EFF will be orders of magnitude worse.
 
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