The SA Politics Thread

[TheChamp]

So he should just be like "Hey, I know you guys are useless and wrecking the country even more. But hey, ANC before SA, lolz.". How is it weakness if he doesn't defend them? And why recall him just cause he works with the opposition?

When did he say they are useless? That's what the DA thinks, and frankly, the ANC before country you guys keep on talking about is how our politics are, which party doesn't put it's interests first?

What business would he have working with the opposition to remove his own cabinet? Which party allows its members to work with the opposition without the party's permission? Yes, I know I would remove him instantly if I were the ANC.

This is what I mentioned in my previous post, this is about doing the right thing and the right thing is to throw out the Cabinet. This could also foster trust from the opposition and general populace in ANC if they do the right thing. This could also prove if Rama is truly willing to reform the ANC as he says.

The right thing according to the DA and contrary to popular belief not everything that comes out of the sacred mouth of John Steenhuisen is the gospel truth.

So in other words, if the Cabinet is ousted, reinstate them cause he didn't publicly state his dismay. And cause "ANC Unity, ANC before SA"?

Yes, if he is unhappy with his cabinet he has every right to remove it, he hasn't done so until now, so I expect him to fully reinstate it before sunset on the DA it was removed through the DA's motion, or by any other motion for that matter.

Cabinet blew R20 million on fuel and new luxury vehicles for 'ANC petrolheads', says DA | The Citizen

Since 2019, Cabinet allegedly spent millions on fuel and luxury official vehicles of ministers and deputy ministers.

www.citizen.co.za

This also doesn't look nice on the Cabinet...

Why, is there anything illegal about it? Cars need petrol to work, again that is the DA being the DA, do you honestly think they did not spent a cent on cars and fuel on MECs and mayor's where they govern?

I do wish they would spend less but truly it's very rich for a party that does the same thing to moan, Unless there is an abuse of some sort there that I missed.

 

[sefeddt]

Ramaphosa works for Ramaphosa. He will do whatever it takes for him to stay in power.

 

[TheChamp]

Ramaphosa works for Ramaphosa. He will do whatever it takes for him to stay in power.

Rubbish, we all know he is serving at the pleasure of the real ruler of the land who was bestowed upon him by the previous ruler, but you know how puppets want to believe they are in charge.

 

[Oldfut]

Okay, I hear you but I see it differently, firstly, that is Ramaphosa's cabinet, he appointed each and every Minister who is there and the idea is that he did that with the powers vested on him as the President, he never at any point indicate that a gun was held to his head to appoint people he doesn't want, that is the premise we are working on.

What is expected of Ramaphosa is to stand by his cabinet and defend it, it would be the greatest form of weakness if he were to be seen not defending them and the ANC would be 100% correct if they were to recall him if there was any indication that he supports the opposition's motion to remove his own cabinet.

On the motion itself, there is just no motivation from any ANC people to remove cabinet, it will never solve anyone's problem as Ramaphosa wpuld still be there to appoint it again and the expected thing is that he should appoint the same Ministers whowere removed, because they were his Ministers and he did not indicate he was unhappy with any one of them, even if he would very much like to remove anyone, it should be seen to be his own doing not something done for him by the DA.

My comment is that I suspect that his (CR's) motivation for appointing each cabinet member was their personal support of ANC delegates they bring with them; for him, either promised in future or provided to him when he was easing Zumpie out, and it was a fine margin so I guess he had to make lots of deals and maybe promise loot. Ability, honesty, diligence, experience etc has little to do with it; see Mbalula, Cele, etc. They will support whoever is seen as good for them, RET whatever, not SA

The DA may think they are being cute in exploiting, or trying to, that CR has way higher popularity ratings compared to the ANC and most ministers and engineer a split but I think it is a forlorn hope. The ANC are the epitome of "thick as thieves".

Rubbish, we all know he is serving at the pleasure of the real ruler of the land who was bestowed upon him by the previous ruler, but you know how puppets want to believe they are in charge.

View attachment 1279390

Obviously not really BUT he dare not lose her support as his grip on power is to close to call.

 

[PrimeSteak]

frankly, the ANC before country you guys keep on talking about is how our politics are, which party doesn't put it's interests first?

That's fine, but the party can't put itself ahead of the country when they're the ruling party.

Also, who is the "you guys" you're referring to?

The right thing according to the DA and contrary to popular belief not everything that comes out of the sacred mouth of John Steenhuisen is the gospel truth.

Didn't say so, but ok, whatever floats your boat...

What would be the right thing according to popular belief exactly?

Cabinet blew R20 million on fuel and new luxury vehicles for 'ANC petrolheads', says DA | The Citizen

Since 2019, Cabinet allegedly spent millions on fuel and luxury official vehicles of ministers and deputy ministers.

www.citizen.co.za

Why, is there anything illegal about it? Cars need petrol to work, again that is the DA being the DA, do you honestly think they did not spent a cent on cars and fuel on MECs and mayor's where they govern?

I do wish they would spend less but truly it's very rich for a party that does the same thing to moan, Unless there is an abuse of some sort there that I missed.

DA MP and spokesperson on public service and administration, Leon Schreiber, said many of the new vehicles allegedly cost much more than the R700 000 spending limit nominally imposed by the November 2019 version of the Ministerial Handbook.

Schreiber said in 11 different cases, the amount of taxpayer money spent on luxury vehicles by ministers and deputy ministers exceeded the statutory limit of R700 000 imposed by the Ministerial Handbook.


Although the handbook allows the finance minister to increase this limit, Schreiber said it would have been in place at least until November 2020 – and possibly longer.


Since up to eleven vehicles were potentially purchased in contravention of the R700 000 limit by Cabinet members such as Fikile Mbalula, Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, Pravin Gordhan, Khumbudzo Ntshavheni and Joe Phaahla – Schreiber said the DA was preparing to lay a complaint with the Office of the Public Protector.

There was abuse and I think it was illegal too. Deflecting this to the DA won't make this ok all of a sudden.
Also kinda insulting to the country, hmmm? The Cabinet using taxpayer money to buy supercars and shite while the country suffers under lockdown?

And before you say something like "The DA probably does it too", trust me, if it did happen all of the media houses in SA would've been on it and blasting it for a week on end.

 

[TheChamp]

My comment is that I suspect that his (CR's) motivation for appointing each cabinet member was their personal support of ANC delegates they bring with them; for him, either promised in future or provided to him when he was easing Zumpie out, and it was a fine margin so I guess he had to make lots of deals and maybe promise loot. Ability, honesty, diligence, experience etc has little to do with it; see Mbalula, Cele, etc. They will support whoever is seen as good for them, RET whatever, not SA

The DA may think they are being cute in exploiting, or trying to, that CR has way higher popularity ratings compared to the ANC and most ministers and engineer a split but I think it is a forlorn hope. The ANC are the epitome of "thick as thieves".

Obviously not really BUT he dare not lose her support as his grip on power is to close to call.

Obviously politics cannot be ignored while operating in a political space so yes, the appointments would be based on the number of factors, constituencies, some people from labour and SACP to keep relations between the tripartite alliance.

Ability, diligence and experience will also be considered, honesty? Isn't it ironic to talk about that and politicians at the same time?

That is pretty much how people are appointed in politics, it is a balance of a couple of factors. Political positions are all about patronage, in between that a few capable people could be found because patronage and capability aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[TheChamp]

That's fine, but the party can't put itself ahead of the country when they're the ruling party.

Also, who is the "you guys" you're referring to?

Didn't say so, but ok, whatever floats your boat...

What would be the right thing according to popular belief exactly?



There was abuse and I think it was illegal too. Deflecting this to the DA won't make this ok all of a sudden.
Also kinda insulting to the country, hmmm? The Cabinet using taxpayer money to buy supercars and shite while the country suffers under lockdown?

And before you say something like "The DA probably does it too", trust me, if it did happen all of the media houses in SA would've been on it and blasting it for a week on end.

You guys is everyone who keeps on complaining about party before country in a political system where political leaders are appointed by the party first before they can go to government.

The right thing is irrelevant in politics, it's all about different opinions and obviously everyone thinking their opinion is the right one. He who is in power calls the shorts.

What is the abuse and you think it was illegal? Do share, I am very keen to call out abuse of state resources where it happens. What I have seen is that Treasury can increase the cap when it deems it necessary to do so, unless someone is lying, which I am yet to see proof of that.

The DA has no moral authority to complain about cars being bought for ministers and taxpayers money being used to buy fuel when it does the exact same thing where it governs, I never said it was the right thing to do.

And no, the media reporting is always skews against the ANC because it is the governing party, that's why many of the negative things the DA does is mainly reported on IOL.

 

[PrimeSteak]

You guys is everyone who keeps on complaining about party before country in a political system where political leaders are appointed by the party first before they can go to government.

Hence why I'm for reforms to change that, directly elect a president, devolve power from the president to parliament, etc. Instead of the majority party getting the president, the president controls everything and Parliament is just a suggestion/formality.

What is the abuse and you think it was illegal?

I did show you, I'll quote it again:

DA MP and spokesperson on public service and administration, Leon Schreiber, said many of the new vehicles allegedly cost much more than the R700 000 spending limit nominally imposed by the November 2019 version of the Ministerial Handbook.

Schreiber said in 11 different cases, the amount of taxpayer money spent on luxury vehicles by ministers and deputy ministers exceeded the statutory limit of R700 000 imposed by the Ministerial Handbook.


Although the handbook allows the finance minister to increase this limit, Schreiber said it would have been in place at least until November 2020 – and possibly longer.


Since up to eleven vehicles were potentially purchased in contravention of the R700 000 limit by Cabinet members such as Fikile Mbalula, Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, Pravin Gordhan, Khumbudzo Ntshavheni and Joe Phaahla – Schreiber said the DA was preparing to lay a complaint with the Office of the Public Protector.

In other words, the limit can be raised, but those vehicles were purchased contravening the limit at the time and thus the law. Otherwise, the DA wouldn't be able to lay a complaint with the Public Protector about this.

The DA has no moral authority to complain about cars being bought for ministers and taxpayers money being used to buy fuel when it does the exact same thing where it governs, I never said it was the right thing to do.

They can complain about things like this since they are the official opposition. And the whole point of the opposition, the official opposition included, is to bring the gov to account when they do things like the above.

And no, the media reporting is always skews against the ANC because it is the governing party, that's why many of the negative things the DA does is mainly reported on IOL.

No, no.

Naturally, reporting about the ANC would be more common because as you say they are the ruling party, but whenever the DA does something, there are tons of opinion pieces and articles shitting on them in most media houses not just IOL, like in Sunday Times, News24 and Daily Maverick. So saying the DA gets a mostly free pass from SA media is bullshit.

Also find it funny how you hold IOL in regard, lol.

 

[TheChamp]

Hence why I'm for reforms to change that, directly elect a president, devolve power from the president to parliament, etc. Instead of the majority party getting the president, the president controls everything and Parliament is just a suggestion/formality.

I did show you, I'll quote it again:


In other words, the limit can be raised, but those vehicles were purchased contravening the limit at the time and thus the law. Otherwise, the DA wouldn't be able to lay a complaint with the Public Protector about this.

They can complain about things like this since they are the official opposition. And the whole point of the opposition, the official opposition included, is to bring the gov to account when they do things like the above.

No, no.

Naturally, reporting about the ANC would be more common because as you say they are the ruling party, but whenever the DA does something, there are tons of opinion pieces and articles shitting on them in most media houses not just IOL, like in Sunday Times, News24 and Daily Maverick. So saying the DA gets a mostly free pass from SA media is bullshit.

Also find it funny how you hold IOL in regard, lol.

My understanding was the cars costing more than R700k were bought with the blessing of Treasury. The DA would still be able to lay a complaint with the PP either way if they feel some rules were contravened, the PP should investigate the complaint and give her ruling.

Maybe there is some abuse, maybe not, we will find out, but laying a complaint does not talk to the validity of the claim, that's why many complaints are dismissed by the PP.

 

[PrimeSteak]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508749283641733124

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508751397491257345

Durban.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508693939439783938

Khoza sobbing and bitching at ActionSA. Accuses them of being controlled by the DA in the back office (If that was true DA wouldn't see them as a threat?).

Mashaba laughed off suggestions he has been funding Operation Dudula and said he last spoken to Dlamini in 2019.
“I admire what they do, the only concern that I have — and I am on record as saying — is that 'guys, please be careful. Your cause is a just cause, but please avoid the situation where you take the law into your own hands',” he said.

Mashaba has previously said South Africans have a right to be frustrated about illegal immigration, but their anger should be directed towards the ANC.

“Never forget the systematic failure to manage immigration lies squarely at the feet of the ANC. That is where we must direct our anger,” said Mashaba.

He pleaded with citizens to always choose the rule of law over anarchy.

Mashaba has been accused of being xenophobic, a claim he and his party have denied.

He told followers last year that ActionSA’s position on illegal immigration was “misunderstood” and “mischaracterised”.

“As ActionSA, we want people of the world to come to SA, but they must do so legally. And when they are here, they must respect our laws,” he said.

Mashaba on Nhlanhla lux — 'The real criminals are sitting in parliament and cabinet'

Mashaba laughed off suggestions he has been funding Operation Dudula and said he last spoken to Dlamini in 2019.

www.timeslive.co.za

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508801235683532803

Mashaba talks Lux and Dudula

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508741383514951683

https://twitter.com/MmusiMaimane/status/1508801677708697609
Maimane talking about jobs. How would point 3 work anyway?

https://twitter.com/Our_DA/status/1508723688744628227
DA promoting tomorrow's motion.

 

[TheChamp]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508749283641733124

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508751397491257345

Durban.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508693939439783938

Khoza sobbing and bitching at ActionSA. Accuses them of being controlled by the DA in the back office (If that was true DA wouldn't see them as a threat?).

Mashaba on Nhlanhla lux — 'The real criminals are sitting in parliament and cabinet'

Mashaba laughed off suggestions he has been funding Operation Dudula and said he last spoken to Dlamini in 2019.

www.timeslive.co.za

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508801235683532803

Mashaba talks Lux and Dudula

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508741383514951683

https://twitter.com/MmusiMaimane/status/1508801677708697609
Maimane talking about jobs. How would point 3 work anyway?

https://twitter.com/Our_DA/status/1508723688744628227
DA promoting tomorrow's motion.

But posting like this kinda defeat the purpose though, It creates clutter and makes it difficult to respond to specific posts, especially since the stories are not related.

It would be much better if each story has it's own post, it can be consecutive posts.

 

[JuliusSeizure]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508749283641733124

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508751397491257345

Durban.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508693939439783938

Khoza sobbing and bitching at ActionSA. Accuses them of being controlled by the DA in the back office (If that was true DA wouldn't see them as a threat?).

Mashaba on Nhlanhla lux — 'The real criminals are sitting in parliament and cabinet'

Mashaba laughed off suggestions he has been funding Operation Dudula and said he last spoken to Dlamini in 2019.

www.timeslive.co.za

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508801235683532803

Mashaba talks Lux and Dudula

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508741383514951683

https://twitter.com/MmusiMaimane/status/1508801677708697609
Maimane talking about jobs. How would point 3 work anyway?

https://twitter.com/Our_DA/status/1508723688744628227
DA promoting tomorrow's motion.

It may have been a miscalculation for Action SA to take her in the first place but she had credibility and she was one of the former ANC people who spoke out against corruption and Zuma. Any party could have fallen into the trap and her CV as an academic of note also makes her credentials impressive.

However, there are some rumors that she's not mentally stable and I'm inclined to believe there may be an element of truth as some of her recent behavior has been a bit strange.

Mashaba lost faith in her after she agreed to chair an ANC aligned and dominated committee which would have gone against the messaging of Action SA. It's unlikely that she was an ANC plant as she has severed ties with many in the ANC so her behavior has been strange.

 

[TheChamp]

It may have been a miscalculation for Action SA to take her in the first place but she had credibility and she was one of the former ANC people who spoke out against corruption and Zuma. Any party could have fallen into the trap and her CV as an academic of note also makes her credentials impressive.

However, there are some rumors that she's not mentally stable and I'm inclined to believe there may be an element of truth as some of her recent behavior has been a bit strange.

Mashaba lost faith in her after she agreed to chair an ANC aligned and dominated committee which would have gone against the messaging of Action SA. It's unlikely that she was an ANC plant as she has severed ties with many in the ANC so her behavior has been strange.

How was she acting strange?

 

[JuliusSeizure]

How was she acting strange?

It's political suicide to join an ANC aligned grouping and even more so to lead it. She is clearly not aligned with the ANC and severed ties and trust with her former party so it is irrational.

The mentally unstable stuff I heard from ANC aligned people in Durban. I do interact with some from all the parties.

 

[PrimeSteak]

But posting like this kinda defeat the purpose though, It creates clutter and makes it difficult to respond to specific posts, especially since the stories are not related.

It would be much better if each story has it's own post, it can be consecutive posts.

Whether it's like that or in different posts (most likely have been accused of spam then), it would've been a problem to someone. Doesn't really matter honestly.

Also would be nice to hear from you about what you think of everything that I posted instead...?

 

[PrimeSteak]

It may have been a miscalculation for Action SA to take her in the first place but she had credibility and she was one of the former ANC people who spoke out against corruption and Zuma. Any party could have fallen into the trap and her CV as an academic of note also makes her credentials impressive.

However, there are some rumors that she's not mentally stable and I'm inclined to believe there may be an element of truth as some of her recent behavior has been a bit strange.

She does seem a bit...off the rails...

Mashaba lost faith in her after she agreed to chair an ANC aligned and dominated committee which would have gone against the messaging of Action SA. It's unlikely that she was an ANC plant as she has severed ties with many in the ANC so her behavior has been strange.

If I remember correctly, the big split came when Khoza opted to work with/cooperate with Durban ANC after LGE 2021 against ASA Senate orders that stipulated that ASA is not to work with the ANC.

 

[Vrotappel]

Ramaphosa works for Ramaphosa. He will do whatever it takes for him to stay in power.

It takes ANC so he'll do what is best for ANC.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

Yes I know the ANC will win but will still be interesting to see how many votes vote for the motion:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508826725152706561

 

[TheChamp]

Whether it's like that or in different posts (most likely have been accused of spam then), it would've been a problem to someone. Doesn't really matter honestly.

Also would be nice to hear from you about what you think of everything that I posted instead...?

As I said it's clutter, and I honestly don't see the point, but I do respect your choice of posting like that, you obviously don't see anything wrong with it so I will leave it at that.

 

[JuliusSeizure]

If I remember correctly, the big split came when Khoza opted to work with/cooperate with Durban ANC after LGE 2021 against ASA Senate orders that stipulated that ASA is not to work with the ANC.

It was odd.

She also is not on good terms for the ANC in Ethekwini especially which is Zuma's stronghold. She won't be trusted by them after going against Zuma. She is clearly not in a healthy state.