The SA Politics Thread

[PrimeSteak]

In this case I think they made the correct choice - and it wasn't about supporting the ANC, it was about supporting democracy. The way you get rid of a cabinet is through national elections. There is one coming up in 2024. This nonsense with motions of no confidence in an elected government is just posturing, playing for the crowd.

Ok, so if it was the best way ever, why does our constitution even allow motions of no confidence to take place in the first place then?
Isn't the whole point of the motions for situations like this where the president and/or cabinet is incompetent, and their corresponding party refuses to do anything about it?

It isn't about "supporting democracy", it's about finding a convenient, oh so honourable defence for the Cabinet and by extension the ANC.

 

[PrimeSteak]

you have no choice until your precious DA has enough votes to be the majority party.

Lol, seethe.

Looking forward to seeing your precious "glorious movement", the ANC get curb stomped in 2024.

 

[PrimeSteak]

I fully agree, the DA has a political campaign going on, and yesterday was part of that. They saw who is on their side and who is not

Last night on KykNet, I saw Piet Croukamp and 2 other political analysts talk about the motions yesterday. And I agreed with Croukamp essentially saying that this could be a great start of a PR campaign for 2024 for the DA and other parties who voted yes, yesterday.

Since the "yes" parties can now say "Hey, these parties and their MPs (could mention them by name) defended this shite Cabinet. We stood against them." or something like that. This motion was actually brought into the mainstream, unlike the others which were probably one article somewhere afterwards and that's that, without anyone really knowing about it... Also, the roll-call should also prove effective in the DA's favour.

So in conclusion, while the DA and the other "yes" parties did lose the motion yesterday, this may prove to be a tactical victory for them yet.

 

[sefeddt]

There is no permanent alliance partners in politics. Many opposition parties would side with the ANC if given jobs and access to resources.

Even the ex leader of the VF+ Pieter Mulder took a minister job under Zuma.

Deputy Minister. who hold no real power.

 

[PrimeSteak]

Our political landscape is at somewhat of an inflection point and parties are jockeying to try land in a good space when they settle.

The 2024 hype is real. We'll probably see our first-ever coalition gov since the GNU. We won't see the typical ANC dominating Parliament meme anymore. Most likely more parties, including the hotshot ASA will be in Parly.

So yeah, curious times.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

I fully agree, the DA has a political campaign going on, and yesterday was part of that. They saw who is on their side and who is not, they would be slightly worried that they have the EFF but not the IFP, especially with the newly formed alliance in mind. COPE is a dying party which will most likely not exist in parliament come 2024 so the are probably not too worried about them.

So the alliance from the local government is still not something they can count on with the IFP falling in and out of love and the unwavering EFF support the DA doesn't know what to make of.

Yup. Also to garner publicity - opposition parties were mostly muted due to the pandemic and getting a no confidence vote on the agenda is sure to make headlines/press coverage. It's quite hard for opposition parties to get lots of press coverage unless they, for example, win a big court case etc (but that doesn't come around every day).

 

[sefeddt]

And in the FF plus defence they chased him away, never to be heard of again after that betrayal.

I saw our Ukraine ambassador is a Groenewald and I wondered if he is also aligned to the Freedom Front since they are not averse to families being in prominent positions in the party.

He stepped down in 2016 a whole 2 years later and remained in parliament until 2017. Nice smear attempt though.

 

[PrimeSteak]

And in the FF plus defence they chased him away, never to be heard of again after that betrayal.

They did.
Seems like he got thrown out in 2016 and then finished as MP in 2017. Lol.

 

[ToxicBunny]

The 2024 hype is real. We'll probably see our first-ever coalition gov since the GNU. We won't see the typical ANC dominating Parliament meme anymore. Most likely more parties, including the hotshot ASA will be in Parly.

So yeah, curious times.

I'm hoping for that outcome yes, but its still 2 years away and that is an absolute age in politics.

 

[PrimeSteak]

So pretty much the same situation we're in now..... It's not like the ministers actually do anything

They're defending democracy, my guy. They don't have time to actually run the country...

 

[PrimeSteak]

I'm hoping for that outcome yes, but its still 2 years away and that is an absolute age in politics.

You have a point, but I think 2024 will be the biggest election since 1994. Nice and symbolic too, since it would be 30 years of democracy and our seventh national elections.

 

[TheChamp]

Ok, so IFP, GOOD and Al Jama-ah opposed. COPE abstained?

I'm surprised at the IFP, not surprised about New Dawn WC ANC and ANC Muslim Division voting against this lol.

What does that make the EFF, the division the DA calls upon when a fight starts?

 

[TheChamp]

Last night on KykNet, I saw Piet Croukamp and 2 other political analysts talk about the motions yesterday. And I agreed with Croukamp essentially saying that this could be a great start of a PR campaign for 2024 for the DA and other parties who voted yes, yesterday.

Since the "yes" parties can now say "Hey, these parties and their MPs (could mention them by name) defended this shite Cabinet. We stood against them." or something like that. This motion was actually brought into the mainstream, unlike the others which were probably one article somewhere afterwards and that's that, without anyone really knowing about it... Also, the roll-call should also prove effective in the DA's favour.

So in conclusion, while the DA and the other "yes" parties did lose the motion yesterday, this may prove to be a tactical victory for them yet.

We always know about parliament motions that matter, they are always in the news, I don't think there was any exceptional coverage for this one.

Yes, I think one day if some ministers are found guilty of something the DA can then say, "we did try to remove them but we were not supported", whether the motion will result in increased support for the DA at the polls, I am not sure, the party has decided to take a different path ever since Zille came back, it honestly doesn't look like a path of growth as Zille herself admitted.

 

[TheChamp]

He stepped down in 2016 a whole 2 years later and remained in parliament until 2017. Nice smear attempt though.

Smear attempt? Stick around, a couple of years from now you will be able to read the room like a champ.

 

[PrimeSteak]

What does that make the EFF, the division the DA calls upon when a fight starts?

Yes, the Azanian Brigade is funded by DA. They are both Oppenheimer proxies.

 

[PrimeSteak]

We always know about parliament motions that matter, they are always in the news, I don't think there was any exceptional coverage for this one.

Not media coverage maybe, but on social media, which we all now know reaches farther than traditional media nowadays.

Yes, I think one day if some ministers are found guilty of something the DA can then say, "we did try to remove them but we were not supported", whether the motion will result in increased support for the DA at the polls, I am not sure, the party has decided to take a different path ever since Zille came back, it honestly doesn't look like a path of growth as Zille herself admitted.

They have stagnated a bit yes although they bounced back slightly since 2019. The motion might prove positive as a launching pad for a 2024 campaign.
IMO they should start doing more actual things instead of just saying "Hey, we're the official opposition. Here's our good rep at the places we govern. ANC is shite.". Everyone knows those three points by now.

They should try to offer more like e.g. constitutional reforms, perhaps pull an ASA and take a hardline stance against illegals, "Here's what we can do for you", etc. stuff like that, instead of reaffirming those three worn-out points every time.

I wonder when Zille will retire tho?

 

[PrimeSteak]

SCA dismisses Jacob Zuma’s four corruption prosecution petitions, clearing the way for trial | News24

The Supreme Court of Appeal has dismissed with costs former president Jacob Zuma's four attempted challenges to his corruption prosecution, just days before he is due back in court for his corruption trial.

www.news24.com

Very nice. Hope they can finally nail him.

 

[sefeddt]

They did.
Seems like he got thrown out in 2016 and then finished as MP in 2017. Lol.

Nah, can spot BS a mile off

 

[C4Cat]

Our version of democracy dictates that you should follow the criminals. Go it. What is sad is that you think us law abiding citizens should be happy with it.

GOOD would support any constructive motion to strengthen our criminal justice system – its investigating capacity and its prosecuting capacity.

It is critical for us to demonstrate that there are consequences for wrongdoing.

But we don’t support motions designed purely to create platforms for public theatre.

It is said that in a democracy people get the government they deserve.

In a country with universal franchise that holds regular free and fair elections, it’s difficult to argue that a government does not represent the will of the people. At least, until the next election.

But in South Africa some like to do things differently.

Here, when minority parties can’t convince the majority of people to vote for them in elections they seek alternative means to influence the composition of the executive.

The President chooses his Cabinet. If he keeps those who are guilty of corruption or incompetence then voters will know what to do in 2024.

For it is the voters, in a democracy, who hold the ultimate power and must live with the consequences of their decisions.

The Voters Must Fire Cabinet, Not Opposition Parties With Sour Grapes - For Good

GOOD speech by Brett Herron,GOOD: Secretary-General & Member of Parliament 30 March 2022 Note to editor: This speech was delivered by GOOD Secretary-General, Brett Herron, during the debate on the Motion of No Confidence into the Cabinet today in Parliament. Speaker, Political parties the world...

forgood.org.za

Hope this clarifies GOOD's position and reason for voting no.

 

[PrimeSteak]

The Voters Must Fire Cabinet, Not Opposition Parties With Sour Grapes - For Good

GOOD speech by Brett Herron,GOOD: Secretary-General & Member of Parliament 30 March 2022 Note to editor: This speech was delivered by GOOD Secretary-General, Brett Herron, during the debate on the Motion of No Confidence into the Cabinet today in Parliament. Speaker, Political parties the world...

forgood.org.za

Hope this clarifies GOOD's position and reason for voting no.

Ok, but we don't have the system to deal with these officials other than the motions. So what, we should forever hold our peace cause the voters put them there without knowing what shite they would pull?

when minority parties can’t convince the majority of people to vote for them in elections

I find it kind of funny for Herron to be saying this...

2019 general election stats:
GOOD: 0.40%

lol