The Syrian Conflict Thread

look i will just concede that syrian people are now highly skilled and got their arms from libya, no one outside of libya came to fight and no one outside syria gave the rebels some weapons. I honestly cannot say how many fighters in al nusra for instance are syrian people so i cannot argue because i don't know how many outside forces have come in and i am not sure where all the weapons came from or how the syrian people became so skilled so quickly. I do know al nusra are extremely skilled fighters but they are radical which is not good, how many are syrian people not sure. So i won't tune BS when i am not 100% certain. Not sure how you can know for sure but you seem to know for certain so i will just let it go.

Then why did you? You said, matter-of-factly, that the "majority of the fighters are outside forces"? This is a Syrian civil war that erupted out of anti-government protests and those protests being put down by force. Somehow you end up thinking that a foreign army invaded Syria and is now making up the majority of those fighting.

killadoob said:
What does it mean to have a seat in the arab league? Not sure what your point is, the UN refuses to recognize any group and that i think that means more than a seat at the arab league. As far as the UN are concerned assad is the leader of syria and stupidly the rebels have killed innocent people, been caught with sarin gas and the rebel groups are not fighting as one. Add into al queda now becoming more and more present in syria it seems unlikely the rebels can be recognized by the UN. Putin is the one who is ensuring that the western powers think and ensure they do not arm radical groups who are anti israel and hate the US. The free syrian leader said live on aljazeera they will not be friends of israel.

The point of recognition is that it means those countries consider the opposition to Assad's government to be a legitimate position in terms of the Syrian people.
 
The free syrian leader said live on aljazeera they will not be friends of israel.

Did he say he would fight israel or invade Israel?

I cant see it happening,they would be more interested in keeping their own borders safe from Israel invading if they win the war against Assad.I really can't see them having the power and arms for an all out assault on Israel.
 
killadoob said:
The free syrian leader said live on aljazeera they will not be friends of israel.

Did he say he would fight israel or invade Israel?

I cant see it happening,they would be more interested in keeping their own borders safe from Israel invading if they win the war against Assad.I really can't see them having the power and arms for an all out assault on Israel.

What did he actually say? Because I'd guess he would keep it politically neutral at this stage. His fight is with Assad, not Israel.
 
What did he actually say? Because I'd guess he would keep it politically neutral at this stage. His fight is with Assad, not Israel.

My thoughts exactly,he probably just said he wont be friends with Israel but did not say he is going to be their arch enemy and attack them.The syrian people like most arabs would probably not like Israel much because of its mishandling of the palestinian people so he cant exactly go out saying he is going to be an Israeli ally.Probably more of a neutral stance.
 
Did he say he would fight israel or invade Israel?

I cant see it happening,they would be more interested in keeping their own borders safe from Israel invading if they win the war against Assad.I really can't see them having the power and arms for an all out assault on Israel.

No he never said he would fight israel, he just said they do not like israel and that won't change. That was rather stupid. That was the spokesman for the free syrian army though and they are not really influential in the war anymore, fighters are leaving the group and al nusra have become biggest and most skilled group in syria. Al nusra/al queda both radical.

I don't think anyone but radical people would attack israel and remember al queda don't fight a conventional war, isreal would even give the US a pretty good fight conventionally and israel have proven over and over they can and will fk up any army that invades them.

However the most powerful army in the world cannot even control al queda tactics, so if al queda could come to power in syria israel would invade syria even though there was talk that israel would prefer al queda to assad i am not sure i believe that. Israel are well aware of the danger terror groups pose. If al queda can find a new home, they can find new suicide bombers, they can get people into israel and they could also do the one thing they are amazing at(please don't make out like i think it's amazing that the car bombs killed innocent people). The car bomb. They specialize in killing civilians and that is why al queda are scary. When you can kill civilians for no reason that is scary, the US even though they do kill plenty civilians, they never intentionally decide to bomb a market for no reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Nusra_Front

How many syrian people make up the force not really sure but al queda are a sunni based organization and they are radical so now you have two radical terror groups fighting assad as one force. The other rebels groups will be slaughtered when assad is no longer around. Al queda will then be able to have a base, they could get chemical weapons. The one thing that crossed my mind though is sunni and shia's hate each other so it might actually work for israel and the US if al queda regroup, get access to some serious conventional vehicles supplied by the saudi's and they could in theory or for the moment go after iran and cause havoc there. So i don't know whether al queda can be trust if they make a deal with the US and israel. Then if that is the plan how can the americans push the war on terror if they supply terror groups with arms?

It would take a mad man is arm the rebels. They are no angels either, they have slaughtered innocent people as well and i think we all know al queda have killed thousands and terrorized numerous countries, iraq is being torn apart by al queda's car bombs almost daily. I highly doubt the US can justify arming a terror group while pushing the war on terror, one has to go. If they are terror groups they must announce an end to the war on terror or they must leave syria alone which i know they won't do
 
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Ok i love conspiracies but please be aware by no means do i believe in all of them, i really do believe we landed on the moon :D.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-cia-qatar-and-the-creation-of-syrias-jabhat-al-nusra/5335453

Not far off the way i see syria but it highlights some interesting ideas, the presence of al queda now has many people worried because they are extremely radical and they are pro sunni, they don't a shyte about being anti or pro west. They will kill and do what they like and that is the danger.
 
World Heritage Sites in Danger

UNESCO on Thursday added six ancient sites in Syria including a fortress of Saladin and a Crusader castle to the endangered World Heritage list, warning that more than two years of civil war had inflicted heavy damage.

"Due to the armed conflict situation in Syria, the conditions are no longer present to ensure the conservation and protection of the Outstanding Universal Value of the six World Heritage properties," UNESCO said.

Syria has six World Heritage Sites: the ancient cities of Damascus, Bosra and Aleppo, the oasis of Palmyra, the castles of Crac des Chevaliers and Qal'at Salah El-Din -- which counts as one site -- and the ancient villages of northern Syria.

All six were placed on the list of World Heritage in Danger by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization committee at its annual meeting in Phnom Penh.

"The decision is meant to rally support for the safeguarding of the sites," UNESCO spokesman Roni Amelan told AFP.

Members also supported a French proposal calling for a special fund to help conserve World Heritage properties in Syria.

Experts say fierce fighting and deteriorating security have left the country's extraordinary archaeological heritage susceptible to damage and looting.

UNESCO said its information on the scale of the destruction was "partial" and came from unverified sources including social media and a report from Syrian authorities which it said "does not necessarily reflect the actual situation".

Aleppo's old city, in particular, has "witnessed some of the conflict's most brutal destruction," it said, adding that the old citadel had been "caught in the line of fire".

In April, the minaret of Aleppo's ancient Umayyad mosque -- originally built in the 8th century and then rebuilt in the 13th century -- was totally destroyed.

"The immediate, near-term and long-term effect of the crises on the cultural heritage of Aleppo cannot be overstated," UNESCO said.

There are also fears for two castles considered architectural treasures of the period of the Crusades in the 11th-13th centuries.

Crac des Chevaliers and Qal'at Salah El-Din (Fortress of Saladin) have "been exposed to clashing and gunfire," according to a report by Syrian authorities given to UNESCO. Saladin was the Kurdish military leader who recaptured Jerusalem from the Crusaders in the 12th century and is lionised across the Middle East.

Referring to Crac des Chevaliers, the report said: "We think that the ancient mosque (the chapel) in the centre of the citadel, which still retained traces of original paintwork, has been damaged."

Clandestine excavations, including looting of ancient tombs and grave sites, have also been reported at several of the sites, it added.

In February, at least 18 ancient mosaics depicting scenes from Homer's "The Odyssey" were stolen during illegal excavations on archaeological sites in the war-torn country's northeast, the country's culture minister said at the time.

UNESCO launched an appeal to Syria's neighbours and the international community to fight illicit trafficking of cultural property coming from Syria.

Since the fighting began, UNESCO has repeatedly called on all parties to the conflict to preserve the country's cultural heritage.

More than 93,000 people, including at least 6,500 children, have been killed since the outbreak of civil war in Syria in March 2011, the UN announced last week in a report that highlighted a surge in the number of deaths each month.


Source : Sapa-AFP /pk
Date : 20 Jun 2013 09:22
 
West 'Not Sure' if it can bring Rebels to Peace Meeting: Russia

Russia said on Thursday the West did not want to commit to a concrete timeframe for a proposed peace conference on Syria because it was not sure the opposition would agree to attend.

In May, Russia and the United States proposed putting together a peace conference in a bid to try to find an end to the civil war in Syria but the date for the talks has repeatedly been pushed back.

At a Group of Eight summit in Northern Ireland earlier this week, the leaders adopted a noncommital statement calling for the peace conference to be held "as soon as possible."

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Russia pushed for a concrete time frame to be spelled out in the final statement but that its Western partners refused to do so.

"Our Western partners chose not to mention concrete dates because they are not at all sure that they will be able to sell the opposition" (on the need to participate), Lavrov said.

"We offered to define such a timeframe. Let it be a month, two, three, it's not important," he said in televised remarks.

"Our Western partners asked (us) not to do it and as a result, it was written down that there's a need to convene a conference 'as soon as possible'. But we all know what such declarations are worth," he said on the sidelines of the Saint Petersburg Economic Forum.


Source : Sapa-AFP /pk
Date : 20 Jun 2013 10:35
 
Seems the cold war is alive and well.

Alan if you can or want to go to www.rt.com and watch the latest crosstalk, please note guys cross talk has views from different people and it isn't just anti american people. It was superb last night.

The one thing that really hit home was hearing that people have died 90000 dead and some say it's genocide but the records show 40000 of those dead people are aluwites(no idea how to spell it), now i highly doubt assad killed people who supported him, so that puts syria into perspective, nearly half of the people who have died are pro assad which would mean the rebels factions are not innocent. It was very interesting last night and people who are really interested in syria and seeing different views should watch cross talk. You can download it or stream it. If you are narrow minded and think assad is slaughtering everyone you will obviously not care because you only have one view. It would also mean you really don't care about the situation and you just debate it with one view which is silly.
 
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Russia to fulfill Missile System Contract

Russia says it will honor its controversial contract to deliver S-300 air defense missile systems to Syria.

Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said in an interview with Russian state TV Thursday that "we respect all our contracts and are honoring all our contractual obligations

"As yet, the contracts are not finished, they have not been delivered in full," he added.

Russia last month acknowledged it has agreed to sell Syria advanced S-300 air-defense missiles, which are considered to be the cutting edge in aircraft interception technology.

Russia has stood by Syrian President Bashar Assad during the two-year civil war, blocking several U.N. resolutions and calls for his ouster. The death toll from the conflict is at least 93,000.


Source : Sapa-AP /pk
Date : 20 Jun 2013 11:17
 
Saudi Arabia to Expel Hezbollah Supporters over Role in Syria

The Saudi envoy to Lebanon says the kingdom will deport Lebanese citizens who support the militant Hezbollah group because of its role in the Syrian civil war.

Ambassador Ali Awad Assiri told Lebanon's Future TV late on Wednesday that Saudi Arabia will deport "those who financially support this party."

He didn't say when such deportations would begin.

Saudi Arabia is a strong backer of the mostly-Sunni Syrian opposition trying to remove Syria's President Bashar Assad from power.

Assad belongs to the minority Alawite sect, an offshoot of Shiite Islam. Shiite Hezbollah fighters were instrumental in a recent regime victory when government forces regained control of the strategic town of Qusair near the Lebanese border.

There are tens of thousands of Lebanese - including Shiites - working in the kingdom.


Source : Sapa-AP /pk
Date : 20 Jun 2013 11:43
 
Thanks Mainly to Putin.

Actually you can thank putin for convincing the western leaders to reconsider arming rebels in syria, you may not like putin but he is no different to obama. He has tried for a long time to get the rebels and assad to sit down but the rebels keep refusing.

He spoke to obama, cameron and the french president and warned them that arming the rebels is not a good idea. Watch cross talk guys. Putin at the moment is the only leader thinking clearly. There are many people who think assad should assisted now and the rebels must be defeated because a syria after assad won't be better and putin has pushed and pushed for peace talks so has the syrian government for over a year now. Putin is not stupid, he can see syria at the moment is full of jihadists and terror groups and the arms will end up in the wrong hands.

Why are you blaming putin gary? Is he invading and removing governments? No he is the one calling for peace and not war. Americans are causing even china to bolster their armed forces, along with russia because they are the ones going to war. Assad must win because radical groups taking control of syria will be bad for israel and the entire region actually. Why do you think israel are preparing for chemical weapon attacks and why are they ready to move into syria if assad falls? They also realize extremists are not good for them.

o yes another thing i never knew is hezbollah are not fighting with assad, they are fighting in one town that is on the Lebanese border, so they are actually ensuring the rebels cannot get into lebanon. The west makes it seem like hezbollah are all over syria, you guys should seriously watch the cross talk episode.
 
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Thanks Mainly to Putin.

Indeed. Considers western democracy a threat...

The Saudi envoy to Lebanon says the kingdom will deport Lebanese citizens who support the militant Hezbollah group because of its role in the Syrian civil war.

Ambassador Ali Awad Assiri told Lebanon's Future TV late on Wednesday that Saudi Arabia will deport "those who financially support this party."

He didn't say when such deportations would begin.

Saudi Arabia is a strong backer of the mostly-Sunni Syrian opposition trying to remove Syria's President Bashar Assad from power.

Assad belongs to the minority Alawite sect, an offshoot of Shiite Islam. Shiite Hezbollah fighters were instrumental in a recent regime victory when government forces regained control of the strategic town of Qusair near the Lebanese border.

There are tens of thousands of Lebanese - including Shiites - working in the kingdom.


Source : Sapa-AP /pk
Date : 20 Jun 2013 11:43

The Irony is the Syrians contributed an armored division as part of the 1st Gulf War coalition that was based in Saudi Arabia.
 
Alan do you think putin is worried about democracy when russia has democracy regardless of what people say he is a legit leader.

How is it possible you guys think russia is worried due to democracy, surely the reason why russia would consider the US a threat is because they are constantly at war with someone. China are also concerned. Would russia worry if the US were not influencing regime changes and illegally attacking countries?

The US and co are seriously considering arming rebels that are classified as terror organizations and putin is the bad guy, he is saying don't arm terror groups yet putin is a bad guy? do you guys ever think america is the problem? Obama wants to reduce nukes by a 1/3, ok cool so russia will have 3000 and the US will have 2500. Is obama an idiot? I didn't think so until he said russia must reduce their nukes by 1/3. Honestly wow perhaps i am not seeing things clearly but putin is pushing for peace in syria western powers are contemplating arming terror groups. Of course putin is the bad guy and the western powers are not a problem, arming terror groups is a great idea. Alarming to see that my post is logical purely because peace is better than terror groups being armed.
 
Ok so i have been listening to everyone and actually trying to see their views vs my own and i am not the old killa who just pushes anti america regardless of the situation. Still not a fan of the western powers but there is more than just the west involved.

Could you guys watch this show and give me your thoughts, http://rt.com/shows/crosstalk/ syria. Please note it may be rt but crosstalk have views from americans who are pro and anti america(not anti more just truthful) and there are some facts that were really interesting that didn't involve the US. i am by no means trying to push rt.com on anyone you can ignore the rest of the site but just watch the show because i promise it is extremely interesting. Anti west or pro west both will be pleased by this show.

It is by far the most interesting view on syria i have seen thus far. At times it is pretty funny but the presenter does his best to let people have their turn. They talk about more than just the US. I would like to know whether you guys think the show is anti american or seemed to be fairly unbiased. I hope guys like orbital, staggy etc and most of the guys in this thread who seem to show serious interest in the topic tell me if they thought it was rubbish and i just can't see how anti american it is. I know rt is anti american but crosstalk seems balanced and i am not pushing rt.com, just one show with views from different aspects much like this thread.

Orbital please recognize i am trying to be a better debater so i hope you can see it and enlighten me more than lol at me. Like you did with Bangladesh you enlightened me or showed me something i never knew in a nice way, the old killa deserved to be tuned but you didn't seem to take the opportunity so i am hopefully we can have awesome debates now :D. I can't change my actions previously but i can try make my future posts come across more like an opinion and not a fact :p
 
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You can't compare it to Libya.
Libya was quick, the government only started firing on civilians after NATO got involved.
Perhaps in the aftermath of US supplied weapons and training. But i doubt it was al queda linked.
The length of the Syrian conflict seem to be inspired by terrorist cells, I doubt the rebels are local Syrians.

Of course you can. The Syrian conflict has its roots in the ''Arab Spring''. Terror cells did not start this, it was started by the people.

And no, Libyan civilians were already being killed before NATO intervention. NATO operations began on 19 March. http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=31907&Cat=1

Do not discount the possibility that Al Qaeda may have been involved in the Libyan Civil War. After all, they do have a wing operating in that region, Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, and that group has made a habit of interfering in the affairs of many countries that neighbour Libya, so Libya would have been no different once stability collapsed. To his credit, Gaddafi did keep a lid on his country and so outside of Libyan territory being part of the AQIMs money laundering and weapon's transfer network, Libya was not troubled by them. But, when the cards came down how can you be so sure that they didn't get involved in some capacity? There were mercenaries from all over the region fighting both for and against Gaddafi.

The Syrian Islamic Liberation Front and the Free Syrian Army, the two largest opposition groups, are almost entirely Syrian. The FSA was also the first group to publically and internationally announce it was taking up arms and its backbone is composed of defectors from the Syrian Army, including its leadership. The Syrian Islamic Liberation Front also names its brigades after the cities it draws its recruits from. I am not denying that there is foreign involvement, that is plain to see, but Syrians started this and Syrians continue to form the majority of opposition fighters.
 
Friends of Syria meeting in Doha to discuss aid to Rebels

Foreign ministers of the "Friends of Syria" group meet in Doha on Saturday to discuss military help and other aid for rebels after an onslaught by government forces who have retaken key areas.

The meeting will address in a "concerted, coordinated and complementary manner" the concerns raised by the opposition's military chief, Salim Idriss, during a "Friends of Syria" meeting in Ankara last Friday, a French diplomat said.

The rebels had notably asked for anti-tank and anti-air missiles to fight the regime forces. Western aid for them so far has been confined to non-military equipment like sophisticated communications materiel.

The upcoming talks -- attended by ministers of Britain, France, the United States, Germany, Italy, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Turkey and Egypt -- will also discuss a proposed peace meeting between President Bashar Al-Assad's regime and the opposition to end the 27-month conflict which has claimed some 93,000 lives and shows no sign of abating.

"We will try in Doha to sum up the situation on the ground and to see how we can aid the opposition coalition and arrive at a political solution," French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said.

The Doha talks will be held against the backdrop of a string of successes by government troops into rebel territory, backed up by Iranian forces and Lebanon's Hezbollah group.

They have retaken Qusayr in the central Homs province near Lebanon and trying to recapture the key city of Aleppo.

It also comes days after a summit of G8 leaders issued a non-committal statement for a peace conference on Syria to be held as soon as possible. The group was deeply divided on key issues, especially owing the intransigence of Russia, Assad's ally.

The G8 also agreed to push for a transitional government in Syria that could include members of Assad's regime who switched sides.

French President Francois Hollande, who will be in Qatar and Jordan over the weekend in a visit that had been planned earlier, will also discuss the Syrian unrest with Qatar's ruler Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani, officials said.

Qatar and Saudi Arabia have been the two major Middle Eastern states providing aid to the rebels.

Britain and France have recently pushed for providing weapons to them but have underscored that this must be done in a responsible manner to avoid the kind of anarchy that took place in Libya after the fall of dictator Moamer Kadhafi.

United States President Barack Obama has authorised sending small arms to the rebels after confirmation that chemical weapons were being used in the conflict. But he has refused to specify what they will be.

Syrian rebels have asked friendly world powers to give them heavier weapons and to impose a no-fly zone over parts under their control to avert a humanitarian disaster.

"The regime could use Scud missiles with unconventional warheads to shell liberated areas. So we need a safe haven," Free Syrian Army spokesman Louay Meqdad told AFP.

"It is necessary to establish secure areas and impose no-fly zones in the south or north," he said.

Calling for anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons, he said that "if they do not provide us with arms to protect civilian areas, a humanitarian disaster will occur because regime troops are committing massacres in the areas they are recapturing".


Source : Sapa-AFP /mv
Date : 21 Jun 2013 03:49
 
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