The Syrian Conflict Thread

[killadoob]

Ok moving on from iraq.... you are trying to convince us, we don't need convincing bro. Each to their own.

(CNN) -- [Breaking News update 11:58 a.m.]

The U.N. report investigating allegations of chemical weapons use in Syria has been released and sent to member states, a spokesman for U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said Monday.

"Chemical weapons have been used" in the Syria conflict, the U.N. inspectors' report says. "In particular, the environmental, chemical and medical samples, we have collected, provide clear and convincing evidence that surface-to-surface rockets containing the nerve agent sarin were used in Ein Tarma, Moadamiyah and Zamalka in the Ghouta area of Damascus."

cnn.com

Interesting. Basically points to assad, this should be interesting now.

 

[Grant]

"useful idiot"

haven't heard that term used for a long long time

 

[Lightscribe]

haven't heard that term used for a long long time

 

[zippy]

Ok moving on from iraq.... you are trying to convince us, we don't need convincing bro. Each to their own.



cnn.com

Interesting. Basically points to assad, this should be interesting now.

Explains why forcing Assad to sign the chemicals weapons treaty and also why agreeing to force Syria to comply so quickly(some provisions leave a country with 30 days to comply) was agreed to by the Russians.

The Russians know that using these rockets is beyond the capabilities of the rebels.

 

[The_Assimilator]

'War crime': U.N. finds sarin used in Syria chemical weapons attack

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/16/politics/syria-civil-war/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

The United Nations team investigating a chemical weapons attack last month in Syria has found that sarin was used.

"In particular, the environmental, chemical and medical samples we have collected provide clear and convincing evidence that surface-to-surface rockets containing the nerve agent sarin were used in Ein Tarma, Moadamiyah and Amalaka in the Ghouta area of Damascus," a 38-page report says.

Chemical weapons "were used on a relatively large scale," U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said in a briefing to the U.N. Security Council.

"The Mission adhered to the most stringent protocols available for such an investigation, including to ensure the chain of custody for all samples."

The team interviewed survivors and first responders, and collected hair, urine and blood samples.

"The Mission also documented and sampled impact sites and munitions, and collected 30 soil and environmental samples -- far more than any previous such United Nations investigation," Ban said.

The report presents a stark picture of the horrific events of August 21.

"Survivors reported that following an attack with shelling, they quickly experienced a range of symptoms, including shortness of breath, disorientation, eye irritation, blurred vision, nausea, vomiting and general weakness," Ban said. "Many eventually lost consciousness. First responders described seeing a large number of individuals lying on the ground, many of them dead or unconscious."

The weather made things worse. Falling temperatures at the time of the attack meant the downward movement of air, allowing the gas "to easily penetrate the basements and lower levels of buildings and other structures where many people were seeking shelter," Ban said.

The U.N. mission has not completed its investigation of other alleged uses of chemical weapons in Syria, Ban said.

But there's no doubt chemical weapons were used in the attack last month, he said.

"The United Nations Mission has now confirmed, unequivocally and objectively, that chemical weapons have been used in Syria."

"This is a war crime and a grave violation of the 1925 Protocol and other rules of customary international law. I trust all can join me in condemning this despicable crime. The international community has a responsibility to hold the perpetrators accountable and to ensure that chemical weapons never re-emerge as an instrument of warfare."

 

[killadoob]

Explains why forcing Assad to sign the chemicals weapons treaty and also why agreeing to force Syria to comply so quickly(some provisions leave a country with 30 days to comply) was agreed to by the Russians.

The Russians know that using these rockets is beyond the capabilities of the rebels.

Actually the rocket is modified and not standard russian made. Cnn calls it unique to syria. Never knew the Syrian had unique systems to launch chemical weapon,s the way they described it on cnn. It seemed more home made or unique to syria. They never said unique to the syrian regime but unique to syria.

Busy checking what russia supplied them. Nothing like american or russian tech they say. Modified which doesn't entirely place the blame on assad.

 

[Lightscribe]

Actually the rocket is modified and not standard russian made. Cnn calls it unique to syria. Never knew the Syrian had unique systems to launch chemical weapon,s the way they described it on cnn. It seemed more home made or unique to syria. They never said unique to the syrian regime but unique to syria.

Busy checking what russia supplied them. Nothing like american or russian tech they say. Modified which doesn't entirely place the blame on assad.

The second type, found in the Western Ghouta attack, is a Soviet-produced 140mm rocket that, according to reference guides, has the ability to be armed with one of three possible warheads, including one specifically designed to carry and deliver 2.2 kilograms of Sarin.

The Syrian government has denied responsibility for the attacks and has blamed opposition groups, but has presented no credible evidence to back up its claims. Human Rights Watch and arms experts monitoring the use of weapons in Syria have not documented Syrian opposition forces to be in the possession of the 140mm and 330mm rockets used in the attack or their associated launchers.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/09/10/syria-government-likely-culprit-chemical-attack

...

 

[Grant]

Busy checking what russia supplied them.

oh this should be good

killa has the actual inventory list !

 

[killadoob]

Cnn said it isn't russian, the rocket was modified. Unique to syria is what they said.

I will try find the picture of the possible rocket for you guys now.

 

[Grant]

Cnn said it isn't russian,

So now, all of a sudden CNN is a worthy & quotable source ??

 

[Lightscribe]

Regime forces are accused of using everything from tear gas to nerve agents and even possible combinations of the two since at least January. But there's a possibility that a third type of weapon has been used in some of these attacks -- a thermobaric one.

It's even possible that all three types of arms were used in the horrific Aug. 21 attacks. After all, one eyewitness said that, aftwards, the victims had radically different kinds of wounds.

"The dead bodies -- this is the strange thing -- the dead bodies, there were hundreds. And there were two kinds," opposition activist Razan Zaitouneh said after the strikes. The first continued to have foam come out of their mouths. "Another kind -- blood came out from their mouths and noses."

http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com...ds_to_confusion_over_syria_s_chemical_attacks

...Russia teaching assad, how to use the Syrian people as guinea pigs for chemical weapons, like Russia did to the people of Afghanistan...

The “sporadic basis” and the relatively small number of victims—three thousand—as a result of about a hundred cases of the use of chemical agents in the period under discussion tend to support Fraile’s suggestion that the Soviet Union had used Afghanistan as a guinea pig for its experiments with chemical warfare.

http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpress...h&chunk.id=s1.14.5&toc.id=ch014&brand=ucpress

 

[LazyLion]

Turkey downs Syrian helicopter: Deputy PM

Turkey said it had downed a Syrian military helicopter which violated its airspace on Monday.

A Syrian MI-17 helicopter was detected two kilometres (1.2 miles) inside Turkish airspace at 2:20pm (1120 GMT), Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc told reporters.

"It was continuously warned by our air defence but as the violation continued, it fell on Syrian soil, having been hit by missiles from our planes," he added.


Source : Sapa-AFP /mm
Date : 16 Sep 2013 18:00

 

[Lightscribe]

The inspection team concluded that the munitions linked to one of the impact sites, called Site 1 in the report, matched types of the Soviet-made M14 artillery rocket, “with either an original or improvised warhead."

...

Russia, at the same time, said that the report is “very technical” and did not contain exact details or conclusions that would indicate the Assad regime was involved in the attack.

http://rt.com/news/syria-chemical-attack-un-report-933/

 

[killadoob]

Explains why forcing Assad to sign the chemicals weapons treaty and also why agreeing to force Syria to comply so quickly(some provisions leave a country with 30 days to comply) was agreed to by the Russians.

The Russians know that using these rockets is beyond the capabilities of the rebels.

Well for the americans the delay was good, they had no support. The UN report though is both interesting and scary. Let's say assad did do this, then the UN must decide what to do, this time russia and china cannot veto. If the rebels have found the wmds then there needs to be more than limited strikes.

Going to get mighty interesting though and we at least have the UN reporting on this, not the russians, not the americans but an unbiased party giving us facts and info without keeping it a secret or sending 100 page report detailing how the rebels used the chemical weapon.

If russia and assad maintain their stance then assad has lost control of wmds.

 

[Lightscribe]

Well for the americans the delay was good, they had no support. The UN report though is both interesting and scary. Let's say assad did do this, then the UN must decide what to do, this time russia and china cannot veto. If the rebels have found the wmds then there needs to be more than limited strikes.

Going to get mighty interesting though and we at least have the UN reporting on this, not the russians, not the americans but an unbiased party giving us facts and info without keeping it a secret or sending 100 page report detailing how the rebels used the chemical weapon.

If russia and assad maintain their stance then assad has lost control of wmds.

Assad spreading the chemical weapons around the country, means he has lost control of them. Either through the people chosen to spread them, being killed whilst transporting them, or from them hiding the chemical weapons, then getting killed.

Even if tracking devices are attached, the weapons being moved around, increases the chances of them falling into the hands of rebels or radicals.

It's the same problem with Pakistan's nuclear weapons, which are constantly moved around in vans, to prevent terrorists from attacking a facility, to get hold of them.

I would not be surprised to learn that many are destined for Lebanon, or Iraq.

 

[Lightscribe]

Mmm decided to Google for it...Week old news already...

Report: Syria transported chemical weapons to Iraq

Lebanese daily says 20 trucks crossed into Iraq last week, bearing equipment and material used for manufacturing chemical weapons.

Syria has moved 20 trucks worth of equipment and material used for the manufacturing of chemical weapons into neighboring Iraq, the Lebanese daily Al-Mustaqbal reported on Sunday.

The government in Baghdad has denied allegations that it is helping the Syrian government conceal chemical stockpiles.

The report came just a day after the United States and Russia struck a deal stipulating that Syrian President Bashar Assad's regime would destroy its chemical arsenal to avert an American military assault.

The newspaper reported that the trucks crossed the boundary separating Syria with Iraq over the course of Thursday and Friday. Border guards did not inspect the contents of the trucks, which raises suspicions that they contained illicit cargo, according to Al-Mustaqbal.

Al-Mustaqbal, a publication that has long been affiliated with anti-Syrian political elements in Lebanon, quoted a spokesperson for Iraq's interior ministry, Saad Maan, as saying that security forces were deployed along the border and were checking all vehicles coming into the country.

"Iraq today is not Saddam Hussein's Iraq," he said. "It is not an Iraq which resorts to the use of chemical weapons against its own people or against its neighbors."

"These accusations are all rumors and are useless and no one believes them," he said.

Last week, the head of the Free Syrian Army told CNN that opposition intelligence indicated Assad was moving chemical arms out of the country.

"Today, we have information that the regime began to move chemical materials and chemical weapons to Lebanon and to Iraq," General Salim Idriss told CNN.

"We have told our friends that the regime has begun moving a part of its chemical weapons arsenal to Lebanon and Iraq. We told them do not be fooled," Idris told reporters in Istanbul.

"All of this initiative does not interest us. Russia is a partner with the regime in killing the Syrian people. A crime against humanity has been committed and there is not any mention of accountability."

http://www.jpost.com/Syria-Crisis/Report-Syria-transported-chemical-weapons-to-Iraq-326141

Free Syrian Army: Assad Moving Chemical Weapons to Lebanon, Iraq

On Sunday, General Salim Idriss, who heads the Free Syrian Army opposition to the Assad regime, said that Syria has been moving weapons of mass destruction out of the country into Lebanon and Iraq. The Iraqi government said that such reports were “cheap propaganda,” with the Prime Minister’s office stating, “We confirm that Iraq is against possessing such weapons and other weapons of mass destruction anywhere in the world and under any excuse.” Lebanon has long been a proxy state for Syria, with terrorist group Hezbollah acting as Syria’s most obvious anti-Western tentacle.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/09/15/Salim-Idriss-Assad-Syria-Iraq

Syrian Rebels Slam U.S.-Russia Deal, Say Assad Is Moving Chemical Weapons To Lebanon And Iraq

...

Idris said Assad's forces had started moving some of their chemical weapons to Lebanon and Iraq in the last few days to evade a possible U.N. inspection. The assertion could not be immediately verified.

"We have told our friends that the regime has begun moving a part of its chemical weapons arsenal to Lebanon and Iraq. We told them do not be fooled," Idris told reporters in Istanbul.

"All of this initiative does not interest us. Russia is a partner with the regime in killing the Syrian people. A crime against humanity has been committed and there is not any mention of accountability."

...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/14/syrian-rebels-chemical-weapons-deal_n_3926151.html

Syrian rebel leader says Assad moving chemical weapons to Lebanon, Iraq

(Reuters) - Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces have started moving some of their chemical weapons to Lebanon and Iraq in the last few days to evade a possible U.N. inspection.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/14/syria-crisis-idris-idUSL5N0HA08D20130914

Elite Syrian Unit Scatters Chemical Arms Stockpile
Assad Regime Has Moved Weapons to as Many as 50 Sites

A secretive Syrian military unit at the center of the Assad regime's chemical weapons program has been moving stocks of poison gases and munitions to as many as 50 sites to make them harder for the U.S. to track, according to American and Middle Eastern officials.

The movements of chemical weapons by Syria's elite Unit 450 could complicate any U.S. bombing campaign in Syria over its alleged chemical attacks, officials said. It also raises questions about implementation of a Russian proposal that calls for the regime to surrender control of its stockpile, they said.

U.S. and Israeli intelligence agencies still believe they know where most of the Syrian regime's chemical weapons are located, but with less confidence than six months ago, U.S. officials said.

...

Unit 450—a branch of the Syrian Scientific Studies and Research Center that manages the regime's overall chemicals weapons program—has been moving the stocks around for months, officials and lawmakers briefed on the intelligence said.

Movements occurred as recently as last week, the officials said, after Mr. Obama said he was preparing to launch strikes.

...

The regime traditionally kept most of its chemical and biological weapons at a few large sites in western Syria, U.S. officials said. But beginning about a year ago, the Syrians started dispersing the arsenal to nearly two dozen major sites.

Unit 450 also started using dozens of smaller sites. The U.S. now believes Mr. Assad's chemical arsenal has been scattered to as many as 50 locations in the west, north and south, as well as new sites in the east, officials said.

...

The movements, activities and base locations of Unit 450 are so sensitive that the U.S. won't share information with even trusted allies in the opposition for fear the unit would be overrun by rebels, said current and former U.S. officials.

The U.S. wants any military strikes in Syria to send a message to the heads of Unit 450 that there is a steep price for following orders to use chemical weapons, U.S. officials said.

...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324755104579071330713553794.html

The Russian Sarindar Plan in full swing again...as usual...

 

[Lightscribe]

Assad’s biological weapons absent from US-Russia deal

Syrian regime has two bases producing anthrax and other devastating agents, Israel’s Channel 10 reports
September 15, 2013, 9:20 pm

Syrian President Bashar Assad has two biological weapons bases, developing anthrax and other devastating biological agents, and yet the US-Russia deal aimed at stripping his regime of chemical weapons makes no provisions for his biological weapons capability, Israeli TV reported Sunday night.

There is “not a word” about biological weapons in the agreement that US Secretary of State John Kerry discussed with Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Jerusalem on Sunday, Channel 10 news said.

Assad has two biological weapons bases, one of them subterranean and a second in a coastal location, producing anthrax and other agents, the report said

...

“The design of biological bombs and missile warheads with the lethality of small nuclear weapons may now be within Syrian capabilities, as is the design of UAV, helicopter, cruise missile, or aircraft-borne systems to deliver the agent slowly over a long line of flight and taking maximum advantage of wind and weather conditions,” he wrote.

On Friday, Sen. John Cornyn (R., Texas) wrote to President Barack Obama to warn that “omitting Assad’s bioweapons from any agreement would represent a gaping hole in the plan.” Such weaponry, in the hands of Assad or his allies, wrote Cornyn, “represent a direct security threat” to the US and its allies. If Hezbollah and other terror groups got hold of this materiel, he warned, “this would be a direct threat to the United States and our allies, particularly Israel.”

http://www.timesofisrael.com/assads-biological-weapons-absent-from-us-russia-deal/

 

[killadoob]

I am sure they mentioned chemical and biological compliance. I could be mistaken.

The scary part is chemical weapon being spread around the region and accessible to extremists, dawn of the chemical car bomb

 

[thestaggy]

Mmm yes, let's play nice with him. As OrbitalDawn says, "Still think he wasn't that bad?"

Please quote where I said he was a nice guy? I simply stated that the West needs to stop thinking it knows what is best for other nations, especially in the Arab World and Africa, and should only act when the people decide it is time. Two, please show me where America's hardline policy has worked? The Arab world hates them because of their forceful, hands on approach in the region.

I am well aware of what he done. I am also aware of the complete and utter failure that is American foreign policy with regards to the Middle East.

Yes, with the rest of the info I posted, in various posts, dealing with many different sources of info, regarding many different issues relating to his WMD, it shows that Saddam had WMD, used WMD, and later stated that he planned to use nuclear WMD. Disprove the bolded statement. Waffling about the state of some of the WMD, or curveball, does not detract from the fact, that he had WMD, used WMD and planned to use nuclear WMD.

Once again, I know what he done and I know that he had WMDs. But like the former weapons inspector Scott Ritter pointed out;

There's no doubt Iraq hasn't fully complied with its disarmament obligations as set forth by the Security Council in its resolution. But on the other hand, since 1998 Iraq has been fundamentally disarmed: 90-95% of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capacity has been verifiably eliminated ... We have to remember that this missing 5-10% doesn't necessarily constitute a threat ... It constitutes bits and pieces of a weapons program which in its totality doesn't amount to much, but which is still prohibited ... We can't give Iraq a clean bill of health, therefore we can't close the book on their weapons of mass destruction. But simultaneously, we can't reasonably talk about Iraqi non-compliance as representing a de-facto retention of a prohibited capacity worthy of war. (page 28)

We eliminated the nuclear program, and for Iraq to have reconstituted it would require undertaking activities that would have been eminently detectable by intelligence services. (page 32)

If Iraq were producing [chemical] weapons today, we'd have proof, pure and simple. (page 37)

[A]s of December 1998 we had no evidence Iraq had retained biological weapons, nor that they were working on any. In fact, we had a lot of evidence to suggest Iraq was in compliance. (page 46)[16]

Iraq was invaded because they allegedly had a fully functioning WMD program and a considerable arsenal when in reality the Israelis, Iranians and Americans, between 1981 & 1990 and subsequent sanctions, had completely and utterly destroyed their capacity to develop and produce said weapons. The production facilities, missiles, launching systems and chemical/nuclear/biological warheads Iraq was alleged to have were never discovered, at least not in the quantities and capacities they were said to have. What was discovered were unusable warheads (unless you were a nut-job and were willing to risk the shells detonating in a launch tube) in relatively small quantities & unoperational/destroyed weapons facilities.

The world was told Hussein was an imminent threat to global security when in reality Hussein's military capabilities were inferior to that of pre-Gulf War levels (Hussein admitted in his interrogation that he feared Iran following the Gulf War as he knew he would be unable to repel them due to the erosion of his military capacity) and his WMD programs were long since knocked out of commission.

Iraq 2.0 was straight up about replacing a regime the US did not like and to put Iraqi oilfields into the hands of American big oil companies. Any excuse they could find to go to war would have done. As Rumsfeld states, Bush told them to get ''creative''.

Sure, I have no idea who curveball is and what he has said to the media. Only you do. So, please tell us again, who is curveball and what did he say to the media?

Curveball

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/15/defector-admits-wmd-lies-iraq-war

 

[Alan]

Heading into tinfoil hat 'war for oil' conspiracy theories...

www.nytimes.com/2013/06/03/world/mi...its-of-iraq-oil-boom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

www.dw.de/russian-norwegian-consortium-wins-bid-on-iraqi-oil-field/a-5008301

www.journal-neo.org/2013/08/28/rus-irakskaya-neft-ne-v-amerikanskih-rukah/

As for the other point Obama is desperately trying to pull out of the M.E and everybody there hates him even U.S allies. He is the supreme example of naive idealism that allows easy criticisms from the peanut gallery meets harsh realities of being power.

Its easy to critisize when when not in power and dont take M.E policy into context. So far the alternatives you have presented leaving Saddam in power killing hundreds of thousands more innocent Iraqis through sanctions and allowing the Syrian civil war to continue, a couple of hundred thousand more dead, until the country probably splits in two one side ruled by Assad with his emboldened allies and the other a nightmarish Taliban like hub for Islamic extremism. Seems like 'failed policy' itself.