The Syrian Conflict Thread

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At the end of the day what we were told was there has never been found. Never.

Plenty was found. Plenty was moved to Syria. Plenty was planned for, once sanctions was lifted, with saddam even at the end, stating he planned to use nuclear WMD

Here's one sentence that sums it up, whilst keeping in mind that not all places were alowed to be accessed and access was delayed...

Later U.S.-led inspections agreed that Iraq had earlier abandoned its WMD programs, but asserted Iraq had an intention to pursue those programs if UN sanctions were ever lifted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

There is also no ways he'd give nuclear, biological or chemical weapons to Iran or Syria. One country he feared and had already been to war with and the other he had been in competition with for decades and had not had formal diplomatic ties with for over a decade.

Oh? Seems he was willing to deal with them after all...

In an effort to demonstrate their own air offensive capability, on 24 January the Iraqis attempted to mount a strike against the major Saudi oil refinery in Abqaiq. Two Mirage F-1 fighters laden with incendiary bombs and two MiG-23s (along as fighter cover) took off from bases in Iraq. They were spotted by USAF E-3 Sentry AWACS aircraft, and two Royal Saudi Air Force F-15s were sent to intercept.

When the Saudis appeared the Iraqi MiGs turned tail, but the Mirages pressed on. Captain Iyad Al-Shamrani, one of the Saudi pilots maneuvered his jet behind the Mirages and shot down both aircraft. After this episode, the Iraqis made no more air efforts of their own, sending most of their jets to Iran in hopes that they might someday get their air force back. (Iran never returned the jets.)[13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Air_Force

Relations with Syria have been marred by traditional rivalry for pre-eminence in Arab affairs, allegations of involvement in each other’s internal politics, and disputes over the waters of Euphrates River, oil transit fees, and stances toward Israel. Syria broke relations after Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990 and joined other Arab countries in sending military forces to the coalition that forced Iraq out of Kuwait. Relations remained cool until Bashar al-Assad became President of Syria in 2000.

Recent developments

Although the official relations between the two countries were suspended in the past, Syrian-Iraqi relations experienced developments in recent years and the reciprocal visits between the two countries have led to a number of agreements on economic cooperation including an agreement for resuming pumping of oil through the Syrian territories which was suspended in 1982.

Syria strongly opposed the occupation of Iraq in 2003, stressing the necessity to maintain the independence of Iraq and support its political process, demanding a time table for the withdrawal of the foreign troops from Iraq. Syria has also played the host for more than 2 million Iraqis, providing refuge for them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq–Syria_relations

So, the info posted before, mentioning the movement of WMD to Syria, is backed by their relationship and the opinion of Syria.

At the end of the day some serious heavyweights have admitted to making a serious mistake, Rumsfeld & Powell the two notable ones.

As mentioned before, some did not have enough info at their disposal, at the time, to make an informed comment. Some decided not to pursue the issue further in the interest of international relations.

Here's some insight as to why the issue was not pursued. http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=5148

Again, the fact remains, inspectors were prevented access and access was delayed, thus any claim that there was no WMD, is made in ignorance.

Also, again, the fact remains, that saddam had WMD, used WMD and even at the end, stated that he planned to use nuclear WMD.

A detailed article covering the above, bolded statements and the movement of WMD to Syria: http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=5360

Thread derailed by this long enough now, I'm bailing out of this one.

Not derailed. The issue is WMD in Syria. Iraq and Syria are connected in this regard. Especially now that there are reports of the WMD again being moved, to Iraq and Lebanon, but bail if you wish.

 

[Tun@]

didn't assad & russia refer to the "rebels" as terrorists as well ?

That's my point - Assad has been saying from the start he's fighting terrorist's & foreign funded militia but the western media only likes to label them "rebels" rather,.......Now we have an example of "rebels" returning to the UK, but now that their entering a different country they are now "terrorists".....How come their not still "rebels"?

 

[Lightscribe]

That's my point - Assad has been saying from the start he's fighting terrorist's & foreign funded militia but the western media only likes to label them "rebels" rather,.......Now we have an example of "rebels" returning to the UK, but now that their entering a different country they are now "terrorists".....How come their not still "rebels"?

He calls them all terrorists, even when the Syrian people were still just protesting.

These 3 articles, give the latest info on the differences and rifts, between the various groups.

http://www.voanews.com/content/syria-rebels/1753137.html

http://www.jpost.com/Syria-Crisis/N...bels-are-hardcore-Islamists-study-says-326331

What does this mean for the Syrian revolution? In the long term, the United States and other Western governments might be more willing to support the Free Syrian Army if they see real distance between it and the jihadis. In the short term, if the rebels are fighting each other, they are not fighting the regime.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24160189

 

[killadoob]

Tell me the egypian military are arresting MB members, freezing accounts and branding them terrorists but that is fine. Why are they not rebels? The MB are being rounded up and locked away without much reason. It really isn't any different to syria yet it's almost become acceptable.

See that is what i dislike about this planet. Different set of rules. Apply rules across the board but i realize that isn't how the game works.

 

[Lightscribe]

Tell me the egypian military are arresting MB members, freezing accounts and branding them terrorists but that is fine. Why are they not rebels? The MB are being rounded up and locked away without much reason. It really isn't any different to syria yet it's almost become acceptable.

See that is what i dislike about this planet. Different set of rules. Apply rules across the board but i realize that isn't how the game works.

The MB can be called "rebels", in the sense that the BBC article, posted before this post of yours, says the people that oppose assad, are all rebels...

They're also "terrorists", in the sense that their ideology, is not in the interest of all the people.

In Syria, the FSA and other moderates are "rebels only", but not "rebel terrorists", since their goals are in the interests of all the people.

There, the jihadists/radicals, are "rebel terrorists", in the sense that their ideology, is not in the interest of all the people.

So, to sum up, all that oppose the government, are called "rebels", loosely, yet not all are considered "terrorists".

After all, "rebel terrorists" aim to instill terror in the population. To rule by terror. To force one ideology onto all.

"Rebels only", aim to free the population, from an oppressive regime, in order for all the people, of whatever ideology, to live in peace.

Quite a stark difference.

 

[Lightscribe]

From the comments in this article quoted below, there is mention of assad releasing jihadists...

"firstly it was Assad who encouraged extremist to join the fight by releasing many of them from his prisons knowing that they will take their part in the fight and that will strengthen his propaganda which says he is fighting extremist not people demanding freedom."

Rebel vs. Rebel

If the United States wants to move against jihadists in Syria, there has never been a better time. Tensions between moderate rebel groups and extremist forces are coming to a head across the country.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/09/18/rebel_vs_rebel_syria_jihadists_groups

A Google showed articles mentioning this...

Al-Zawahiri’s video message would have passed unnoticed had it not been associated with a series of questionable incidents. First, Abu Musaab al-Suri, a leading Jihadist figure, was unexpectedly released from prison. Al-Suri, who is considered a dangerous al-Qaeda leader, was arrested in Pakistan in late 2005 and handed over to the Syrian authorities, which have recently released him for unknown reasons. Al-Suri’s whereabouts are unknown. This news did not find its way into the headlines, but many saw it as part of the formal propaganda to be employed by the regime against the revolution.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/tr/...ty/01/02/jihadists-are-making-headway-in.html

Mohamed Merah, the 23-year-old Islamist gunman who hunted down three Jewish children and a rabbi after murdering three French paratroopers in Toulouse last month, didn't act alone. In his journey from the slums of Toulouse, to the local mosques, to the terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan that he described to French police, to filming his murder of the terrified children in order to post video clips on the web, Mr. Merah was following a path marked out years earlier by the coldblooded jihadist theoretician Abu Musab al-Suri.

What is perhaps more disturbing, Mr. al-Suri was recently set free from prison in Damascus, Syria, and his current whereabouts are unknown. Turned over to Syria after his capture by the CIA in late 2005, Mr. al-Suri was released sometime in December (according to intelligence sources and jihadist websites) by the regime of President Bashar al-Assad—a move apparently intended to warn the West of the consequences for opposing his rule.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303299604577323750859163544.html

Bashar released Al-Qaeda prisoners to cover his crimes: SNC ex-spokesperson

Basma Kodmami tells Ahram Online that Bashar Al-Assad has proven his readiness to reach the 'highest levels of criminality' in order to quell the democratic aspirations of the Syrian people
Bassem Aly , Saturday 16 Mar 2013

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCon...eased-AlQaeda-prisoners-to-cover-his-cri.aspx

Interesting...All Russia and Assad's jihadists, crawling out, killing the moderate rebels and inciting a push against the USA.

Al-Qaeda calls for fresh wave of terror attacks inside U.S. to ‘bleed America economically’
13 September 2013

Ayman al-Zawahiri calls for 'a large strike' on American soil
Bin Laden's former right-hand man believed to have arranged 9/11 attacks
Radio broadcast urges Muslim 'brothers' to launch smaller strikes on U.S.
Terrorist chief urges boycott of dollar and U.S. products

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ott-U-S-goods-bleed-America-economically.html

Wake up USA...Know your enemy...It's name is putin.

 

[killadoob]

I thought the enemy was terror, you know those people who killed 3000 americans? The war on terror, now you say it is russia? So is the war on terror over?

I can understand moving from a global war against ghosts and into war with russia as your enemy but then are they also terrorists?

Where does the US stand on the war terror at the moment?

 

[thestaggy]

Plenty was found. Plenty was moved to Syria. Plenty was planned for, once sanctions was lifted, with saddam even at the end, stating he planned to use nuclear WMD

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7634313/n...-final-report-no-wmd-found-iraq/#.UjvYz9IwdFY

WASHINGTON — In his final word, the CIA’s top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has “gone as far as feasible” and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion.

No information gleaned from questioning Iraqis supported the possibility, one addendum said. The Iraq Survey Group believes “it was unlikely that an official transfer of WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place. However, ISG was unable to rule out unofficial movement of limited WMD-related materials.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3718150.stm

Iraq had no stockpiles of biological, chemical or nuclear weapons before last year's US-led invasion, the chief US weapons inspector has concluded.

Iraq Survey Group head Charles Duelfer said Iraq's nuclear capability had decayed not grown since the 1991 war.

But despite the lack of actual weapons, the White House said the report showed Saddam Hussein's intent and capability and justifies the decision to go to war.

Key findings in the report:

- "The ISG has not found evidence that Saddam possessed WMD stocks in 2003, but [there is] the possibility that some weapons existed in Iraq, although not of a militarily significant capability."

- "There is an extensive, yet fragmentary and circumstantial body of evidence suggesting that Saddam pursued a strategy to maintain a capability to return to WMD after sanctions were lifted... "

- "The problem of discerning WMD in Iraq is highlighted by the pre-war misapprehensions of weapons which were not there. Distant technical analysts mistakenly identified evidence and drew incorrect conclusions."

But the top Democrat on the Armed Services Committee, Senator Carl Levin, said Mr Duelfer's findings undercut the government's main arguments for war.

"We did not go to war because Saddam had future intentions to obtain weapons of mass destruction," Mr Levin said.

But former chief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix said he hoped Mr Blair and Mr Bush would now admit that the invasion of Iraq was a mistake.

"Had we had a few months more [of inspections before the war], we would have been able to tell both the CIA and others that there were no weapons of mass destruction [at] all the sites that they had given to us," he said, quoted by the Associated Press news agency.

AGAIN, as I have now gone blue in the face saying, what we were told he had has never, ever been found. We were told Hussein had an active WMD program and a significant arsenal of weapons that posed an immediate threat to world peace. We were told he had nuclear, chemical and biological arsenals that could cause some serious damage. They found badly corroded munitions in decaying storage facilities and destroyed/dilapidated factories. No active programs were found and the massive arsenals of viable weapons were non-existent. He was attacked because he said something and because he could have re-started his programs. So don't tell me he said this, he said that and they found some papers and shells of zero military value, because we were not told he was attacked for that.

Simply a case of ''Look, I can't prove you have done anything wrong now, but because you done something stupid 10-20 years ago I'm going to kick your ass in case you do something stupid again. Also, we don't really like the way you run your country."

 

[zippy]

That's my point - Assad has been saying from the start he's fighting terrorist's & foreign funded militia but the western media only likes to label them "rebels" rather,.......Now we have an example of "rebels" returning to the UK, but now that their entering a different country they are now "terrorists".....How come their not still "rebels"?

I don't know which "western media", you see, but the media in the UK(BBC, Sky, ITV and Channel 4) has been pretty clear about the rebel groups and their links with AQ.

Here is a link from another western media source which acknowledges that the Syrian rebels have links to terrorist orgs.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/14/assad-use-chemical-weapons-confirmed-us-officials-say/

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Assad has been saying from the start he's fighting terrorist's & foreign funded militia

Assad also has terrorists and foreign funded militia fighting on his behalf. So what's his problem?

 

[Tun@]

Assad also has terrorists and foreign funded militia fighting on his behalf. So what's his problem?

Yes but Assad's side of the equation begun in the defense of the regime to stop it's overthrow,which we now know wasn't just a simple "people uprising"

 

[LazyLion]

Syria Opposition Condemns Jihadist Attack on Rebels

Syria's opposition National Coalition on Friday condemned attacks by Al-Qaeda loyalists of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) on mainstream rebels of the Free Syrian Army.

"The Coalition condemns the aggressions against the forces of the Syrian revolution and the repeated disregard for the lives of Syrians, and considers that this behaviour runs contrary to the Syrian revolution and the principles it is striving to achieve," a statement said.

The group denounced in particular ISIS's seizure of the town of Azaz on the border with Turkey on Wednesday after an hours-long firefight with FSA fighters and its attempt to take control of the Bab as-Salameh border crossing.

It accused ISIS of "repeated repressive practices against the freedom of civilians, doctors, journalists and political activists in recent months".

It also accused it of having "links to foreign agendas" and of seeking to create a "new state inside the Syrian state entity in violation of national sovereignty".

Azaz was one of the first towns to be overrun, in July 2012, by FSA rebels, who set up their own administration.

Tensions between FSA loyalists and ISIS have spiralled in recent months, especially in northern Syria where the opposition controls vast swathes of territory.


Source : Sapa-AFP /pk
Date : 20 Sep 2013 09:22

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Yes but Assad's side of the equation begun in the defense of the regime to stop it's overthrow,which we now know wasn't just a simple "people uprising"

It was at first. Turned into a civil war when he started butchering people instead of implementing proper reform.

 

[LazyLion]

Tunisian Women Waging 'Sex Jihad' in Syria: Minister

Tunisian women have travelled to Syria to wage "sex jihad" by comforting Islamist fighters battling the regime there, Interior Minister Lotfi ben Jeddou has told MPs.

"They have sexual relations with 20, 30, 100" militants, the minister told members of the National Constituent Assembly on Thursday.

"After the sexual liaisons they have there in the name of 'jihad al-nikah' -- (sexual holy war, in Arabic) -- they come home pregnant," Ben Jeddou told the MPs.

He did not elaborate on how many Tunisian women had returned to the country pregnant with the children of jihadist fighters.

Jihad al-nikah, permitting extramarital sexual relations with multiple partners, is considered by some hardline Sunni Muslim Salafists as a legitimate form of holy war.

The minister also did not say how many Tunisian women were thought to have gone to Syria for such a purpose, although media reports have said hundreds have done so.

Hundreds of Tunisian men have also gone to join the ranks of the jihadists fighting to bring down the regime of President Bashar al-Assad.

However, Ben Jeddou also said that since he assumed office in March, "six thousand of our young people have been prevented from going there" to Syria.

He has said in the past that border controls have been boosted to intercept young Tunisians seeking to travel to Syria.

Media reports say thousands of Tunisians have, over the past 15 years, joined jihadists across the world in Afghanistan Iraq and Syria, mainly travelling via Turkey or Libya.

Abu Iyadh, who leads the country's main Salafist movement Ansar al-Sharia, is the suspected organiser of a deadly attack last year on the US embassy in Tunis and an Afghanistan veteran.

He was joint leader of a group responsible for the September 9, 2001 assassination in Afghanistan of anti-Taliban Northern Alliance leader Ahmad Shah Massoud by suicide bombers.

That attack came just two days before the deadly Al-Qaeda attacks on the World Trade Centre in New York and Pentagon in Washington.


Source : Sapa-AFP /pk
Date : 20 Sep 2013 10:52

 

[b_crazy]

'Sex jihad being waged'

Tunisian women have travelled to Syria to wage "sex jihad" by comforting Islamist fighters battling the regime there, Interior Minister Lotfi ben Jeddou has told MPs.

"They have sexual relations with 20, 30, 100" militants, the minister told members of the National Constituent Assembly on Thursday.

"After the sexual liaisons they have there in the name of 'jihad al-nikah' - (sexual holy war, in Arabic) - they come home pregnant," Ben Jeddou told the MPs.

He did not elaborate on how many Tunisian women had returned to the country pregnant with the children of jihadist fighters.

Jihad al-nikah, permitting extramarital sexual relations with multiple partners, is considered by some hardline Sunni Muslim Salafists as a legitimate form of holy war.

The minister also did not say how many Tunisian women were thought to have gone to Syria for such a purpose, although media reports have said hundreds have done so.

Hundreds of Tunisian men have also gone to join the ranks of the jihadists fighting to bring down the regime of President Bashar al-Assad.

However, Ben Jeddou also said that since he assumed office in March, "six thousand of our young people have been prevented from going there" to Syria.

He has said in the past that border controls have been boosted to intercept young Tunisians seeking to travel to Syria.

Media reports say thousands of Tunisians have, over the past 15 years, joined jihadists across the world in Afghanistan Iraq and Syria, mainly travelling via Turkey or Libya.

Abu Iyadh, who leads the country's main Salafist movement Ansar al-Sharia, is the suspected organiser of a deadly attack last year on the US embassy in Tunis and an Afghanistan veteran.

He was joint leader of a group responsible for the 9 September 2001 assassination in Afghanistan of anti-Taliban Northern Alliance leader Ahmad Shah Massoud by suicide bombers.

That attack came just two days before the deadly Al-Qaeda attacks on the World Trade Centre in New York and Pentagon in Washington.


http://news.iafrica.com/worldnews/880408.html

 

[zippy]

It was at first. Turned into a civil war when he started butchering people instead of implementing proper reform.

An uprising is the early stages of a civil war.

 

[Grant]

"After the sexual liaisons they have there in the name of 'jihad al-nikah' - (sexual holy war, in Arabic)

Holy F**k

Bugger the drones, send in the whores .. .. ..

 

[Lightscribe]

I thought the enemy was terror, you know those people who killed 3000 americans? The war on terror, now you say it is russia? So is the war on terror over?

I can understand moving from a global war against ghosts and into war with russia as your enemy but then are they also terrorists?

Where does the US stand on the war terror at the moment?

Do some research for the answers to your facetious questions. Start by actually reading the info and links, I and others, have posted, since the start of this thread.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7634313/n...-final-report-no-wmd-found-iraq/#.UjvYz9IwdFY

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3718150.stm

AGAIN, as I have now gone blue in the face saying, what we were told he had has never, ever been found. We were told Hussein had an active WMD program and a significant arsenal of weapons that posed an immediate threat to world peace. We were told he had nuclear, chemical and biological arsenals that could cause some serious damage.

Here, read it all and don't cherry pick parts, that you want to make conform, to your idea of exactly what the reasons for the war, was. Note that there were many reasons and the "1991 War" never really ended...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationale_for_the_Iraq_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War

They found badly corroded munitions in decaying storage facilities and destroyed/dilapidated factories. No active programs were found and the massive arsenals of viable weapons were non-existent.

Again, the fact remains, inspectors were prevented access and access was delayed, thus any claim that there was no WMD, or any active programs is made in ignorance.

Also, again, the fact remains, that saddam had WMD, used WMD and even at the end, stated that he planned to use nuclear WMD.

Do not ignore the info I have posted, that discuss the movement of WMD to Syria, just before the invasion.

He was attacked because he said something and because he could have re-started his programs. So don't tell me he said this, he said that and they found some papers and shells of zero military value, because we were not told he was attacked for that.

Nope, there were many reasons, as the links above show. See above, where I just told you again, what he stated. Don't tell me what to tell you.

Simply a case of ''Look, I can't prove you have done anything wrong now, but because you done something stupid 10-20 years ago I'm going to kick your ass in case you do something stupid again. Also, we don't really like the way you run your country."

It's less time than 20 years, from 1991, to 2003...and the war never really ended.

Please try not to simplify the issues and do not make blanket false statements.

 

[Alan]

Holy F**k

Bugger the drones, send in the whores .. .. ..

An orgy of lust, sex, violence and barbarism under the guise of a religion that is supposed to be the antithesis of exactly that....

 

[LazyLion]

Chemical Arms Experts Arrive in Damascus

A team of UN chemical weapons experts arrived in the Syrian capital Damascus on Wednesday, an AFP correspondent said, ahead of new investigations into the use of the banned arms.

The team, led by chief expert Ake Sellstrom, flew into the Lebanese capital Beirut on Wednesday morning, before continuing by road to Damascus.

The group is expected to examine the alleged use of chemical weapons some 14 times in Syria's 30-month conflict.

It went to Syria last month and concluded in a report presented on September 16 that banned chemical weapons had been used on a wide scale.

There was clear evidence that sarin gas was used in an attack in the Eastern Ghouta neighbourhood near Damascus on August 21, the report said.

Sellstrom pointed out that the report was only an interim document, and that other allegations needed to be looked into.

"There have been other accusations presented to the UN secretary general, dating back to March, against both sides" in the conflict, he told AFP earlier this month.

There were "13, 14 accusations" that "have to be investigated".

He said the team hoped to be able to present a final report addressing all of the accusations "possibly by the end of October".

The August 21 attack, which the Syrian opposition and some parts of the international community blame on the regime, prompted Washington to threaten military action against Damascus.

The Syrian government denies using chemical weapons against its people, and has agreed to a US-Russian plan that will see it hand over its chemical arsenal for destruction.

The deal headed off US military action, but regime ally Russia is still wrangling with Britain, France and the United States over the wording of a UN resolution enshrining the accord.


Source : Sapa-AFP /pk
Date : 25 Sep 2013 11:10