The UCT - Cecil John Rhodes Statue Thread

Sinbad · Mar 12, 2015

ambroseg1 said:
Again....did he pay for the University in its entirety all by himself?

A large portion of it, yes. Certainly a lot more of it than those hypocrites have paid

Space_Chief · Mar 12, 2015

Mila said:
Who are these people calibrating him? who did Cecil oppress? Nobody alive. Nobody at that university. Zuma himself flew over to England grove led at the Queens feet and thanked her for everything the British done.

Nobody alive but his actions still influence history and people in the present. In addition his behaviour was not so honourable at all times.

For who are they Heros? Those people are old or dead. It's just a piece of art. It contributes to history by being art. A 100 years from now students will study art history in SA and be able to go stand at an actual piece of art history.

In a 100 years from now someone will study history in America fly over here to come and see this piece of history. Like we do when we travel.

Sure.

If you don't like history I understand, but why should it be destroyed because a few people just don't care?

Don't destroy it.

I think it is selfish, the British oppressed and killed my people. I don't scoop poop and throw it at statues. I stand at it admire the art and think, you must be turning in your grave ( with a little smirk)

Did they oppress your people? You see this type of "yes it sucks but I don't do x" is a kind of your own personal way of dealing with things which don't affect you so much. Do I have issues with the Japanese PM celebrating at Yasukuni Shrine. No. I can however understand Korean and Chinese. I understand that my pro-Japanese stance - I have Japanese relatives and friends - is biased. I'm not going to judge either in this case.

Time to stop living in the past, time to stop statues from oppressing you. Time to stop looking for excuses why you are failing. It's nobodys fault but your own cycle pants clad pink hard head wearing self.

The people who usually ask for that are usually (not always) those who are connected with past glory. And this still lives on.

Breaking down a statue is not going to make it better. Addres the issues. Built your own things, in 100 years students will want to know but where is the statues of the people that built the new south Africa's unis. And then? What the?

I'm not necessarily saying such statues need to go. But maybe they do, maybe they don't. Maybe it needs to go to a museum. Or maybe be moved to a less prominent place. Not necessarily meaning that it needs to go completely.

Address issues, sure. Maybe this guy does not even have valid issues. Not all protests are valid. But yeah I can see how Rhodes is divisive and I can see how some of his actions are - or should be objectively seen ethically bad.

ProfA · Mar 12, 2015

Sinbad said:
A large portion of it, yes. Certainly a lot more of it than those hypocrites have paid

What portion? How much was paid? And just because I paid for a car, and died, doesn't mean the new owner of the car owe me a thing let alone honour me.

ellyally · Mar 12, 2015

Space_Chief said:
Nobody alive but his actions still influence history and people in the present.

Indeed. http://www.mandelarhodes.org

Sherbang · Mar 12, 2015

Sinbad said:
Hypocrites in the thousands. They should leave the university that he paid for.

Using money he made without exploiting anyone ever. right?

Sinbad · Mar 12, 2015

ambroseg1 said:
What portion? How much was paid? And just because I paid for a car, and died, doesn't mean the new owner of the car owe me a thing let alone honour me.

Depends. If you gave it to him for his and his descendants' perpetual use then actually yeah he should be grateful.

JStrike · Mar 12, 2015

Sinbad said:
Hypocrites in the thousands. They should leave the university that he paid for.

He paid for? His contribution is tiny compared to the funds raised for UCT by the citizens of South Africa as well as students of UCT

Space_Chief · Mar 12, 2015

JStrike said:
He paid for? His contribution is tiny compared to the funds raised for UCT by the citizens of South Africa as well as students of UCT

On the other hand it teaches students that out of bad things good things can come too. This is a good thing.

OrbitalDawn · Mar 12, 2015

Sherbang said:
https://twitter.com/JoshuaNott/status/575984012742774785

Students in the thousands protesting against the presence of Cecil Rhodes Statue.

Dude worships Malusi Gigaba apparently.

There's something quite pathetic about how they think protesting a statue is such an immense activist achievement.

JStrike · Mar 12, 2015

Space_Chief said:
On the other hand it teaches students that out of bad things good things can come too. This is a good thing.

Very true. True also for Rockerfeller, Louis XIV and many others

Sinbad · Mar 12, 2015

JStrike said:
Very true. True also for Rockerfeller, Louis XIV and many others

And Mandela...

ellyally · Mar 12, 2015

OrbitalDawn said:
There's something quite pathetic about how they think protesting a statue is such an immense activist achievement.

Yarr, as I said before, I don't care if its up or down, I just see there are so many problems and issues that need to be addressed in SA, and all this energy is wasted on a piece of bronze artwork of some dude from 100+ years ago. Its sad to see that this is a priority in peoples lives. They could be doing something that could potentially change millions of lives in the country, but this is the focus.

JStrike · Mar 12, 2015

Sinbad said:
And Mandela...

Didn't realise he was obscenely rich

Sinbad · Mar 12, 2015

JStrike said:
Didn't realise he was obscenely rich

I thought we were talking about good coming from bad? Is rich bad?
He helped found a terrorist movement that murdered innocent civilians - but we remember the good he did.

ProfA · Mar 12, 2015

Sinbad said:
I thought we were talking about good coming from bad? Is rich bad?
He helped found a terrorist movement that murdered innocent civilians - but we remember the good he did.

That's very selective and very one sided thinking. Well done.

JStrike · Mar 12, 2015

Sinbad said:
I thought we were talking about good coming from bad? Is rich bad?
He helped found a terrorist movement that murdered innocent civilians - but we remember the good he did.

I was talking about many of histories obscenely rich people being disgusting people, but leaving behind great legacies. We can appreciate the legacy while disliking the person.

Mandela does not fit into what I was talking about.

As for your calling him a terrorist instead of a freedom fighter, that's not a discussion I'm going to be drawn into

Sinbad · Mar 12, 2015

ambroseg1 said:
That's very selective and very one sided thinking. Well done.

So? I have my point of view. I'm entitled to it. I lost friends to limpet mines in restaurants.

ProfA · Mar 12, 2015

Sinbad said:
So? I have my point of view. I'm entitled to it. I lost friends to limpet mines in restaurants.

Where did I say you are not entitled to your one sided and selective point of view? Other people have loved ones also to the government that was oppressing these so called terrorists.

Sinbad · Mar 12, 2015

ambroseg1 said:
Where did I say you are not entitled to your one sided and selective point of view? Other people have loved ones also to the government that was oppressing these so called terrorists.

Your sarcastic "well done" pretty much said it all.
Anyway, whatever. Let's all get really pissed off about what some guy did many years ago, and throw poo at each other.

Awesome society we live in today. #BlameJan

Mila · Mar 12, 2015

JStrike said:
Didn't realise he was obscenely rich

You would think so if you have a look at how the family is fighting about it.

The UCT - Cecil John Rhodes Statue Thread

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