The UCT - Cecil John Rhodes Statue Thread

[TriGuN]

Nah. You say that probably because you have English connections. Imperialism is not a good thing. Sure there were good effects (building of infrastructure, etc) , but that could have been done by good old fashioned missionary work and more just co-operation between the locals and foreigners.

Yes, I am British. I wasn't talking especially about the British Empire though. Empires in general, particularly expansive empires, on the whole have massively accelerated the progression of the species. The British benefitted from being conquered and colonized as well, by the Roman Empire for example. If you're not willing to cede these obvious truths just because you hate "the state", that's fine, the rest of us can judge for ourselves.

Also look at how Rhodesia was dropped like a hot potato by the previously aggressively imperialist government in the UK.

Yeah. Previously imperialist, because of people like you. They dropped it because they adopted your moral stance. Now we all get to watch the consequences.
Happy?

or South Africans of Irish descent.

He bankrolled Irish nationalism, apparently.

 

[JStrike]

You would think so if you have a look at how the family is fighting about it.

Not really. Some money sure. Nowhere near obscenely rich. I don't think we have anyone that has been alive in the last couple of decades that would fall under that category. Rhodes was probably the last

 

[Space_Chief]

Yes, I am British. I wasn't talking especially about the British Empire though. Empires in general, particularly expansive empires, on the whole have massively accelerated the progression of the species. The British benefitted from being conquered and colonized as well, by the Roman Empire for example. If you're not willing to cede these obvious truths just because you hate "the state", that's fine, the rest of us can judge for ourselves.

This is so crazy. I mean I hate the state? I don't hate the state. I don't like big governments. I prefer liberty. I am not an anarchist.

Secondly, no. There are empires and there are empires. And not all progress was from empire building. To say it's the only major driver is bollox. Thirdly one can condemn various actions of the empire, at least as much, as they oppose the local people. Rhodes screwed the locals over the people he held allegiance to - the UK. He was a foreigner acting on behalf of a foreign power which would later go on to a war of imperialism against the Zulus and the Afrikaaners, to get to that gold (in the latter case).

Yeah. Previously imperialist, because of people like you. They dropped it because they adopted your moral stance. Now we all get to watch the consequences.

People like me? Wth? You smoking dope?

Happy?

They left the Rhodesians. They could have come to some better settlement with Mugabe.

He bankrolled Irish nationalism, apparently.

Conditional on Ireland still being with GB. And of course all his actions enriched Britain and allowed them to suppress Irish independence longer.

 

[Nicodeamus]

The saddest part about Rhodesia was that SA dropped it, after the UK dropped it. The truth is that the whites in SA sold the Rhodesians out, only to find themselves without a government as well 14 years later.

 

[BandwidthAddict]

British Imperialism is easily one of the best things to happen to the progression rate of the human species, ever.
When they arrived, SA was comparable to civilizations that existed 5000 yrs ago. It was things like British imperialism that allowed them an almost instant civilizational catch-up. Men like Cecil John Rhodes are not celebrated, but they ought to be treated as if they were God men. There should be bowing, and the sacrificing of virgins, quite frankly ^_~

5000 years ago was the bronze age. The non black people were building pyramids, massive stone cities, large ships, wheeled transport, amazing works of art, writing and farming huge tracts of land to support a large city population.

363 years ago the blacks were wearing loin cloths, living in mud huts and hadn't even figured out the wheel.

But hey, they were disadvantaged by the whites arriving on "their" shores in long distance ocean navigating ships.

What were the blacks doing from 5000 years ago to 363 years ago?

 

[OrbitalDawn]

5000 years ago was the bronze age. The non black people were building pyramids, massive stone cities, large ships, wheeled transport, amazing works of art, writing and farming huge tracts of land to support a large city population.

363 years ago the blacks were wearing loin cloths, living in mud huts and hadn't even figured out the wheel.

But hey, they were disadvantaged by the whites arriving on "their" shores in long distance ocean navigating ships.

What were the blacks doing from 5000 years ago to 363 years ago?

So all these kingdoms were made up of people in loincloths and mud huts? Fascinating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kingdoms_in_pre-colonial_Africa

 

[ProfA]

So all these kingdoms were made up of people in loincloths and mud huts? Fascinating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kingdoms_in_pre-colonial_Africa

You are ruining the one sided and selective thinking with facts. Please stop.

 

[JStrike]

So all these kingdoms were made up of people in loincloths and mud huts? Fascinating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kingdoms_in_pre-colonial_Africa

You are ruining his view that all civilization came from the west, and the only way to spread knowledge is via colonialism and empire building

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

[video=youtube;J7YJKSpjm6w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7YJKSpjm6w&app=desktop[/video]

Wow...a white ANC supporter...how retarded can you get?

He obviously decides to filter out the endemic anti-white racism present within senior structures of the ANC.

 

[JStrike]

[video=youtube;J7YJKSpjm6w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7YJKSpjm6w&app=desktop[/video]

Wow...a white ANC supporter...how retarded can you get?

He obviously decides to filter out the endemic anti-white racism present within senior structures of the ANC.

No need to be rude to others that have different voting patterns to you, and different reasons for doing so

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

I notice on the Daily Maverick comments that Rhodes also donated the land used for the president's house when in CT.

Strange they not calling for that to be erased...

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

No need to be rude to others that have different voting patterns to you, and different reasons for doing so

No, I will be rude when such stupidity is on display.

 

[ProfA]

No, I will be rude when such stupidity is on display.

And who made you God-King of deciding who people should vote for?

 

[ProfA]

I notice on the Daily Maverick comments that Rhodes also donated the land used for the president's house when in CT.

Strange they not calling for that to be erased...

Did he build the president's house and is their a statue to celebrate and honour him in that property? In fact, is the property even names after him?

Nobody said that if a evil person donates something that it must be erased from the earth for all eternity. Didn't we already talk about the donation of land thing earlier in the thread?

 

[Nerfherder]

5000 years ago was the bronze age. The non black people were building pyramids, massive stone cities, large ships, wheeled transport, amazing works of art, writing and farming huge tracts of land to support a large city population.

363 years ago the blacks were wearing loin cloths, living in mud huts and hadn't even figured out the wheel.

But hey, they were disadvantaged by the whites arriving on "their" shores in long distance ocean navigating ships.

What were the blacks doing from 5000 years ago to 363 years ago?

Bro...

The pyramids where built by the Nubians so don't wonder too hard about what the "blacks" where up to, they kept busy

 

[Nerfherder]

[video=youtube;J7YJKSpjm6w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7YJKSpjm6w&app=desktop[/video]

Wow...a white ANC supporter...how retarded can you get?

He obviously decides to filter out the endemic anti-white racism present within senior structures of the ANC.

Remember, when you are 21, drink all night and attend BA lectures for a living then you know everything.

 

[JStrike]

I notice on the Daily Maverick comments that Rhodes also donated the land used for the president's house when in CT.

Strange they not calling for that to be erased...

No one is calling for stuff he owned or donated to be erased. His good legacy is appreciated, but there is no need to glorify such a horrible person by having statues in his honour.
You will notice the dailymaverick echo'd those sentiments

 

[ProfA]

You will notice the dailymaverick echo'd those sentiments

Please refrain from messing with people's selective memory. LOL

 

[AthenianOwl]

It seems that throwing poo at something you dislike is a normal thing to do in zooma's South Africa.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

And who made you God-King of deciding who people should vote for?

People are free to vote who they want, but it doesn't prevent me from passing judgement on them.