Thirteenth Check Comments from Bosses

[TheMightyQuin]

This is the problem with company management of today:

They promise performance related bonuses if you complete targets and work hard.
They then re-neg on that promise based on:
global recession
"your department did well but the company as a whole did not make the required targets to allow us to pay bonuses this year"
<Insert your choice of excuse here>

The street runs both ways, it seems that the Capitalist culture of watching your bottom line and making sure the increases and bonuses are assigned in a top heavy way is the current practice.

And you expect loyalty and extra hard workers to be molded in this kind of culture?

So when a company says they cannot afford to pay you a bonus, they are lying by default?

If a bonus or commission structure is not clearly defined in you contract, it is exactly as described: a BONUS and not something that you are entitled to.

 

[SoulTax]

So when a company says they cannot afford to pay you a bonus, they are lying by default?

If a bonus or commission structure is not clearly defined in you contract, it is exactly as described: a BONUS and not something that you are entitled to.

Of course not, but then when a worker is piled on with more and more and more work and they cannot perform much more than simply doing their job, then they are lazy entitled sods by default?

As I said, the street runs both ways.

 

[TheMightyQuin]

Of course not, but then when a worker is piled on with more and more and more work and they cannot perform much more than simply doing their job, then they are lazy entitled sods by default?

As I said, the street runs both ways.

Of course it runs both ways. What I have found however, is a general feeling of entitlement to bonusses, amongst members of a workforce in an environment which is not target OR goal driven.

 

[SoulTax]

Of course it runs both ways. What I have found however, is a general feeling of entitlement to bonusses, amongst members of a workforce in an environment which is not target OR goal driven.

If you are writing the word bonuses into a contract, without targets or goals, then of course people are going to feel entitled. Personally I hate a lack of targets or goals as an indicator of bonus worthiness. Because then I have to bite my tongue if my manager is a ****, because "performance reviews" in a department without actual performance KPA's is simply a fancy way of saying, "At managers discretion". I want my bonuses to reflect my work, not my ass licking abilities.

 

[Devill]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bonus

bo·nus
[boh-nuhs] Show IPA
noun, plural bo·nus·es.
1.
something given or paid over and above what is due.
2.
a sum of money granted or given to an employee, a returned soldier, etc., in addition to regular pay, usually in appreciation for work done, length of service, accumulated favors, etc.
3.
something free, as an extra dividend, given by a corporation to a purchaser of its securities.
4.
a premium paid for a loan, contract, etc.
5.
something extra or additional given freely: Every purchaser of a pound of coffee received a box of cookies as a bonus.

 

[axon1988]

We run Yammer at our company, so the Financial manager puts up some updates about salaries and related issues every now and then. On Friday she put up a message about how happy it makes her to be able to work out 13th cheques for all of us a little earlier. And then the boss commented on it. He said:

I really hope you all enjoy it, we've done well this year and it's thanks to you guys.

He rarely says much, and our department sees he more then most, but he is probably the best boss I have ever had. Treats everyone with respect, listens to you when you talk. And doesn't matter who you are, he seems to always try to communicate to everyone.

 

[Sonic2k]

This is the problem with the workforce of today:

They expect a salary just for pitching up for work.
Then they want a bonus for DOING their work.

It seems the tipping culture has spilled over to thje work place.

I couldn't agree more. I really couldn't. If did my job well, then use your discretion, but don't pay me one just for the sake of me doing what I agreed to be paid a monthly for.

I started the post to engage in healthy debate, for the first time ever, I got it right on this forum, so I feel quite stoked about that.

Ass-licking is alive and well in this country. I left a company a good while ago, where the sales people sucked up to the CEO so bad I felt like puking my guts out, they would walk into his office in the mornings to greet him with sugary sweet "hello how are you" I don't need to tell you who got nice increases.

Generally though, I have found that eventually this crap does catch up with those who engage in it. I ignored a lot of this, changed careers several times, at the moment I find myself in a position where they are so hard-up for my skills they will pay anything. However I digress. I went through some old e-mails and remembered all the stuff I had been told over the years... was quite amusing to see how this played out over the years. The amount of crap I have been fed, is astounding. And then bosses wonder why I don't take them seriously when they say things.

The best advice I can give anyone is, if you want to be happy with your career, get the recognition for it, and the fat bonus you feel entitled to, work for yourself. If you are looking for those things from a company, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Granted, ass-licking skills will get you far, but in the end, you can only lick so much ass, and ingest so much faeces, you'll get sick and die.

 

[bassplayer]

Just a quick personal bit of research, if you don't mind.

How many of you get a speech or lecture from your employer this time of year, usually done at the Christmas party?

Here are gems I have had from years past:

"Count yourself lucky you are getting a bonus. <Competitor's name here> their staff didn't get anything" [13th check was less than my salary. From an electronics manufacturing company. Busted a gut during the year, gives me a R1000 increase before tax and then has the audacity to ask if I am happy about it. Then took offense when I resigned]

"You can only get a bonus if you get the project out on time" (This while they purposefully put every obstacle they could in my way to getting the project done) [A software company]

"I am angry yes, because in 3 weeks I have to pay bonuses so my costs are double this month, you have no idea what I go through, yet you take sick leave and always out at lunchtime" [Electronics manufacturing concern]


This year I decided I have had enough of the above and told my present employer not to pay me anything extra as I am not interested in the above nonsense, because it does nothing except make me inclined to leave. They agreed!

That is just silly. Tell them to pay it into my account.

 

[killerbyte]

No bonus or 13th cheque my side. Its been that way since I started so the idea of getting something extra at the end of the year is foreign to me. Now that I am in a sales position I make commision and if I am good then my December can be something special. In this case thank goodness for the Nov comm, bloody car has cost me Rover R4k in the last 2 months (clutch went on Friday).
My dad worked at Toyota before he retired and they gave out a 13th every year, my dad would use that to pay for the next year's school fees.
I can imagine if you are a family man the 13th cheque will be a way of giving your family a nice christmas. But I agree that there is nothing worse than being made to feel like you are lower than pig feces because you are being given a 13th cheque.

 

[Sonic2k]

But I agree that there is nothing worse than being made to feel like you are lower than pig feces because you are being given a 13th cheque.

Yes I was exploring that today because it is entirely possible that this crap happens to you and you begin to think its all in your mind. Meanwhile it is quite common, people just don't talk about it.

As an aside since it was mentioned. A handful of people use the 13th check for noble intentions (school fees, education costs, and the like). I have seen, every year, how most people (99.9%) go mad at shopping malls to keep up with the Joneses and probably to brag around the braai fire. I suspect that this year will be particularly bad. It starts around the 14-18th of November (some companies pay out the 13th check early). It is already afoot, on Friday night I was not feeling so good with this flu that is going around.. stood in a queue at the local KFC for over 30 minutes because the entire public descended on the fast food outlets en masse. When people have bonus money they:

* Don't mind being ripped off and paying more than they should for something. The December price hikes deter very few. I myself wait until Jan/Feb the following year.
* Eat takeout the entire month of December (I am sure KFC, Nandos, and McDonalds smile all the way to the bank)
* Use the mall as entertainment i.e. spend up to 8 hours or more at the malls (arrive at 8, leave after 5pm)
* Are very likely to upgrade the DSTV decoder/subscription
* Buy new phone/contract, new flatscreen TV, new vehicle (only to dump it/let the bank repossess it in July because the maintenance costs and payments are brutal)
* Get a DSLR camera (despite being totally inept to using it properly) just because Koos next door has gotten one.
* Get a new tablet, iPad or whatever to "be seen" with it.
* Purchase expensive gifts for ungrateful children/family members who return it for store credit/cash refund anyhow.
* Buy huge amounts of booze, by the case-full.

An increasing number do what is right, i.e. they buy food, but they also go mad, and empty the shelves that it can be a pain to get some kinds of foods for that month.

There was a time when this was also foreign to me. Telkom SA didn't pay me one for several years, then suddenly woke up one year and paid me one. The following year I was already working elsewhere so I won't know what could have happened.

 

[creeper]

This might sound harsh, but the years of bonuses are gone. The world had a nice growth for 20 years, but is now subdued and it might be for another couple of years. Furthermore, South Africa's economy isn't growing. Even the consumer driven component has fizzled due to the tightening of credit and overdebt South Africans. The bad part is that people have become dependent on the bonuses to (temporary) alleviate debt.

Managers that make out that bonuses are a curse and you shouldn't get one, should not be managers. (another pet peeve of mine, the quality of managers in SA). If a person did there work above that of what is required, and the company also did well, remunerate accordingly. If a company can't do bonuses even though people worked really hard, give another type of remuneration. It isn't always about money. Recognition also works.

 

[DJ...]

Koosi, based on your posts in this thread and responses in others relating to employers, I get the impression that you actually despise yours. Perhaps time to move on?

 

[Shi]

If a bonus or commission structure is not clearly defined in you contract, it is exactly as described: a BONUS and not something that you are entitled to.

My company's bonus structure is related to it's EBITDA reaching a pre-determined target. How do you motivate one guy to keep on working extra to reach this type of target.

 

[Sonic2k]

This might sound harsh, but the years of bonuses are gone. The world had a nice growth for 20 years, but is now subdued and it might be for another couple of years. Furthermore, South Africa's economy isn't growing. Even the consumer driven component has fizzled due to the tightening of credit and overdebt South Africans. The bad part is that people have become dependent on the bonuses to (temporary) alleviate debt.

That is my observation exactly, and yes, the economy is not growing (we can thank all the strikes and general laziness for that). A realistic expectation is that it will only come around again in 10-15 years' time.

Managers that make out that bonuses are a curse and you shouldn't get one, should not be managers. (another pet peeve of mine, the quality of managers in SA). If a person did there work above that of what is required, and the company also did well, remunerate accordingly. If a company can't do bonuses even though people worked really hard, give another type of remuneration. It isn't always about money. Recognition also works.

Indeed. I think you stand a better chance of getting a bonus than recognition. Managers do not want to admit their staff are good, for fear of them looking bad, or sometimes feeling of inadequacy (some are managers due to ass-licking skills and feel genuinely intimidated by the smart people they are managing).

To answer the question of moving on, yes it is time, but I fancied a debate today about all these issues

 

[Sonic2k]

My company's bonus structure is related to it's EBITDA reaching a pre-determined target. How do you motivate one guy to keep on working extra to reach this type of target.

That never works... and you know why? You can work literally yourself to death, there are always people who loaf at work, and bosses/shareholders who have less than pure intentions. You get burnt-out and ill, in vain. There have been years in the past (approximately three in all) where I just didn't bother and pretended to be busy (was reading this forum and others) for most of the year. My take was wtf should I do it for. Those three years were like this, I would do what needed to be done, on Wednesdays so that I had just enough work done by month end to avoid being fired.

This year I busted a gut again, and it appears it was all for nothing, I fell for the carrot dangling again. I had a good think about things this weekend and decided this is the last time. Fortunately now I have the required skills and experience to become a consultant.

Getting back to 13th checks... a company I worked for last year, conned me out of mine when I left, it was part of my CTC, as described above. I told them I want the pro-rata amount paid out to me along with my leave, I was told in plain language to f*** off. Needless to say I left immediately and threw their access card at them. I withdrew a small amount of my pension to survive that month until I got a new job. Right now they are making lots of noise because of me leaving, they deducted tax for money they didn't actually pay me and I put SARS onto them. The emails I received the last few weeks were spectacular.

 

[knobshine]

That depends entirely on whether it is structured as a 13th check or whether it is structured as 12 paychecks and a performance related bonus.

There are two types of 13th check, one of which is an option to load your salary heavily into the Christmas season. So you get 1/12th less each month, but then in Dec you get 2 of your paychecks in one. People must be wary of this as it is actually structured into your CTC that way, some unscrupulous bosses may try to convince you that this is a bonus that they can withhold based on company performance. But they cannot. Also if you ever sign a contract to that effect, then you are mad. It prevents you from being able to leave at any point other than after your 13th check, because otherwise you are losing out big time.

If it is simply a Christmas bonus, then I don't count on it. Try to get them to structure a 50% bonus value into your CTC to start with and scrap the bonus altogether. Not many will do that, but it is worth a try.

My 13th check is worked into my CTC. And I still get the whole 'you're lucky you're getting a bonus' speech.

 

[TelkomUseless]

We run Yammer at our company, so the Financial manager puts up some updates about salaries and related issues every now and then. On Friday she put up a message about how happy it makes her to be able to work out 13th cheques for all of us a little earlier. And then the boss commented on it. He said:

I really hope you all enjoy it, we've done well this year and it's thanks to you guys.

He rarely says much, and our department sees he more then most, but he is probably the best boss I have ever had. Treats everyone with respect, listens to you when you talk. And doesn't matter who you are, he seems to always try to communicate to everyone.

Awesome boss man!

 

[Mars]

No one gets a 13th check here (not even me), however everyone gets a performance bonus in their birthday month.

I have found it to be way better for staff because, while they perhaps dont get to splurge on krismis, I have helped a couple of them buy cars, renovate houses and a couple of other things with their bonuses that I personally think are much better than the krismis splurge.

 

[Sonic2k]

No one gets a 13th check here (not even me), however everyone gets a performance bonus in their birthday month.

I have found it to be way better for staff because, while they perhaps dont get to splurge on krismis, I have helped a couple of them buy cars, renovate houses and a couple of other things with their bonuses that I personally think are much better than the krismis splurge.

That is an awesome idea. For one thing, if your birthday is not in December, and you feel like spoiling yourself, you can do so in peace, and not have the mob around you, and having to pay an inflated price

 

[killerbyte]

Teachers working for the dept. get their bonus on their birthdays, I think the government just does this to reduce the hurt on the books.