Threat to property

Techne said:
The biggest BS is any person who believe a Libertarian is after governmental power.
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So Rand Paul is not Libertarian? So Ron Paul is not Libertarian?

Well thats a new one...

... no arguing with that is there? :D
 
Let them go ahead. I'm buying my first house this week and I would love the government to snatch it from me, that way I scream victim and get refugee status in a first world country. My cousin did that but with education (BEE bursaries and entrance to degree) and he is now the guest of the Australian government for the last 3 years.
 
Arthur said:
That's just where we differ. I and my fellow free-marketeers have no desire whatsoever to prescribe things for other people. We do not wish to impose policies, budgets, views and assorted prescriptions for Utopia on anyone. All we want is that the State get out of the way and allow people to live their lives.
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I think the state has its purpose and getting rid of it is untenable. It should just be more limited.
 
cbrunsdonza said:
Let them go ahead. I'm buying my first house this week and I would love the government to snatch it from me, that way I scream victim and get refugee status in a first world country. My cousin did that but with education (BEE bursaries and entrance to degree) and he is now the guest of the Australian government for the last 3 years.
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Yeah... I dont think that plan is going to work it relies on the government confiscating your property... and unless you are a druglord or something , but nice insurance :D


Chances are when the ANC loses power and the government is better run, the price of your property will go up nicely.
 
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Would actually be nice to hand the government my bond as well come to think of it...

They have the property, they can have the debt that goes along with it.
 
ghoti said:
So Rand Paul is not Libertarian? So Ron Paul is not Libertarian?

Well thats a new one...

... no arguing with that is there? :D
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Politically, they are more libertarian than most in politics and government, hence why they are labeled as Libertarian. Libertarian, as I understand, is a position that "advocate a society with a greatly reduced state or no state at all.".

So a Libertarian that is after governmental power AND supports no government or at the very least, a small government is probably in the wrong business and not very clever.
 
Albereth said:
That N is the same as the one in the ANC?
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Exactly the same :D

(Dont quote me on this because its heresy), but I heard when the ANC first started it was a black nationalist movement just like the NP was a white nationalist movement (which was driven specifically by Afrikaner nationalism). Thats why I heard the DA (through its ancestor the PP), were the first party to push for multicultural elections in SA.

Well that mob should be fought because they don't have public schools (that function).
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Teaching is cheaper than fighting.
 
Techne said:
Politically, they are more libertarian than most in politics and government, hence why they are labeled as Libertarian. Libertarian, as I understand, a s position that "advocate a society with a greatly reduced state or no state at all.".

So a Libertarian that is after governmental power AND supports no government or at the very least, a small government is probably in the wrong business and not very clever.
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There are a gazzilion types of libertarians. Yes I know. You all claim you are the right type of libertarian. To me you come across a moderate centrist libertarian. More of the old classical liberal. Todays neocons :D

Arthur is super far right economic libertarian. If I take political compass I am a moderate left of center libertarian.
 
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ghoti said:
There are a gazzilion types of libertarians. Yes I know. You all claim you are the right type of libertarian. To me you come across a moderate centrist libertarian. More of the old classical liberal. Todays neocons :D
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Classical liberal is not bad.

You come across as a right-wing authoritarian given the fact that you support the welfare state and most of them are right-wing authoritarians. Look at your favourite ... Sweden.
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http://www.politicalcompass.org/euchart

Socially and morally though you appear to be a progressive liberal. Just going with the flow with whatever you think is hip or cool or in or "rational" for the day, much like a moral relativist.
 
ghoti said:
Arthur is super far right economic libertarian. If I take political compass I am a moderate left of center libertarian.
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Well that is interesting. Which government in the world has that view? Can't think of any atm.
 
Techne said:
Classical liberal is not bad.

Socially and morally though you appear to be a progressive liberal. Just going with the flow with whatever you think is hip or cool or in or "rational" for the day, much like a moral relativist.
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Yeah, right now, education and health services are pretty hip and you gotta admit. All the healthiest and most educated countries are run by parties with similar such hip modern social liberal agendas as mine :D
 
ghoti said:
Yeah, right now, education and health services are pretty hip and you gotta admit. All the healthiest and most educated countries are run by parties with similar such hip modern social liberal agendas as mine :D
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Which of course just begs the question, why do you support them if you are a lefty libertarian? Your political compass appears to be diametrically opposed (hope that's right :p) to the successful right-wing authoritarian states.

Anyway, given the evidence, it appears our country is moving in a lefty authoratarian direction. Guess who is waiting for us :whistle:...
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Btw, it appears Ron and Rand Paul are more accurately described as "neo-liberals".
 
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Techne said:
Which of course just begs the question, why do you support them if you are a lefty libertarian? Your political compass appears to be diametrically opposed (hope that's right :p) to the successful right-wing authoritarian states.

Anyway, given the evidence, it appears our country is moving in a lefty authoratarian direction. Guess who is waiting for us :whistle:...
internationalchart.png
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When I do the test I end up near Mandela and the Dali Lama. Good company indeed. Im not sure how much I trust tests that the person who they claim to represent didnt actually take such a test. There sure are a lot of alpha male personalities in that group you blue group (I include Julia and Angela in that :D :D).

Im not even far left. My Canadian cousins recon I am right wing from their perspective. When they do that test they are on the far left in the green area.
 
ghoti said:
Once you remove governments the centers of power will become the corporations. Once your new overlords are rich shareholders instead of democratically elected officials do you honestly think you are going to get more than you do now? If you do, I can say without much certainty.... you will never be in a position of power to ever make such a decision.
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Too late, already happened.
 
ghoti said:
(Dont quote me on this because its heresy), but I heard when the ANC first started it was a black nationalist movement just like the NP was a white nationalist movement (which was driven specifically by Afrikaner nationalism). Thats why I heard the DA (through its ancestor the PP), were the first party to push for multicultural elections in SA.
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Not entirely true:
The ANC started as the South African Native Congress which was a collection of middle class intellectual "Africans" (the construct of African and Native were used by two different schools of thought). The SANC had no real interest in party type politics or elections and what not, beyond advocating that "educated Natives" - and frankly didn't believe that "rural natives" should have been allowed to vote throughout the Union and protectorates and the SANC members could and many did belong to the "white" political parties of the day - particularly the United Party but obviously not in leadership roles. The driving force was the fact that the British government had rejected Schreiner's mission to ensure that the South Africa Act (the constitution) would extend the Cape franchise rather than as it ultimately did set course to apartheid. In essence what was a deputation in 1909 became the SANC.
A letter quoted in Thompson [i said:
The Unification of South Africa[/i] - p406, for anybody who is interested]
and a letter from J.T. Jabavu, of the African deputation, stressing 'the concern felt by the natives generally throughout South Africa, who are unwilling victims of this measure', and saying that imperial sanction of the colour-bar provisions of the draft Act might become a precedent for legislation by the Union Parliament 'against all native advances'
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The SANC became the African National Congress in 1923 after a wave of nationalist sentiments had started. Sadly it became nationalist before it stopped being an all boys club (in 1943 - by which stage their had been white women in Parliament and white women could vote for more than 20 years) under its second generation of leadership. The move was definitely motivated by the growing importance of nationalism in politics - as witnessed by the fact that the National Party established in 1915 had by 1923 grown being a player in Parliament, and quite significantly the Paris Peace Conference which all but idealized nationalism (League of Nations as opposed to Congress of Governments etc ...) and so the ANCs practice of monopolizing the construct of being the sole representative of the South African African Nation began. There is no evidence I am aware of of their being white members of the ANC in its early days but in the 1950's it was not allowed.

Parliament party politics took course quite independently of civil society with some notable exceptions but the ANC was not a political party and their members who had the vote voted for people like Margaret Ballinger of the Liberal Party. The Liberal Party from 1958 to 1968 was the only political party which had no colour bar with the United Party having been largely destroyed in part as a result of the colour-bar debates and the torch commando failed to oppose the rise of fascism in SA because of the inability to combat racism.

The ANC moved away from certain tenants of African Nationalism in the 50's and the PAC broke off - it is the PAC which can claim Sobukwe and Biko - not the ANC. I really wish somebody on the national platform would take the ANC on on its hypocrisy in attempting to monopolize Mandela while misappropriating Biko (who coincidently the DA has a better claim to than the ANC - Zille was the journalist who brought Biko to global attention and de Lille was president of the PAC at one stage, and then of course there is the new kid on the block). At no point did the notion of a political party contesting parliamentary elections occur - the ANC never developed a parliamentary democracy culture. On the other hand the progs who broke off from the United Party eventually formed themselves into a series of parties starting with the Progressive Party and ending with the now Democratic Alliance (or donkey's anonymous) with Dame Helen Suzman as the doyen of parliamentary opposition to apartheid - in which capacity she was able to visit political prisoners. Her contribution to building the capacity for South Africa to be a constitutional democracy was until recently undisputed - and is well demonstrated by her attending Mandela's signing into effect the 1996 Constitution and the motion of an ANC member upon her death to rename on of the buildings in the Parliamentary precinct after her, but I digress.

The DA didn't ever "push for multicultural elections" - which I am not entirely sure what you mean by. But rather various entities advocated different forms of federalism and so on but fundamentally the political machine which grew to lead the ANC into becoming a political party has had to adopt a revisionist approach towards South African history in order to gloss over a complex and nuanced history and to promote a dangerous and frankly evil brand of nationalism. Sadly the DA often seems to imitate the ANCs bull**** - and before I get infracted bull**** is a legitimate term in philosophy :D
 
I am going to prepare myself ....

(start to sell properties and transfer cash out of SA)

..... and if anything bad will happen, then I will take my British passport to embassy for protection. :)
 
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