Tony Leon to Quit

[Angelo]

Several candidates may be in the running, including Cape Town mayor Helen Zille, party CEO Ryan Coetzee and Eastern Cape provincial leader Athol Trollip.

Interesting to note that Seremane gets no mention here

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20061128005106349C907289

 

[Chatmaster]

Asked earlier this year why he disliked Leon, Mbeki laughed heartily and said that wasn't the case. However, the president indicated that the ANC was irked by the DA's apparent insistence that there was parity or equivalence between Leon and Mbeki as head of state.

I am sorry, I do not understand this part, is Mbeki claiming to be better than anybody else because he was elected to be the president? Maybe I am just funny that way, but I do not really care who you are, I do not respect you because of your appointment, but by your actions. If you require to be respected because of your position, I doubt you have the leadership or selfesteem to govern a country... sigh pathetic if it is true!

 

[dlk001]

Asked earlier this year why he disliked Leon, Mbeki laughed heartily and said that wasn't the case. However, the president indicated that the ANC was irked by the DA's apparent insistence that there was parity or equivalence between Leon and Mbeki as head of state.!

From what I can read from this part, it doesn't seem there's any thing here claiming that Mbeki is better than anybody else.

 

[GavinMannion]

I have not read through the thread so don't flame me...

I just want to state "Good riddance to bad rubbish"

I never liked Tony....

I wonder who is going to be next, maybe Zuma is looking for a new party

 

[StrontiumDog]

Effective opposition

The DA needs a black leader. It's the only way they'll even begin to shed their stigma of being a "white" party with the voting public.

It's obvious some people took your statement the wrong way but I agree with you fully. Many voters vote with their hearts and not their heads. They cannot bring themselves to vote for someone who shares the same skin tone as their former oppressors. In fact, they might just abstain all together if they feel the ruling party is not doing a good job (assuming the options are ruling party vs opposition).

Of course having a strong black leader for the opposition is not a magic bullet. Some will see him/her as a traitor and puppet to 'the white puppeteers'. Of course, such voters are a lost cause to the opposition regardless of what the opposition does, no it's no loss I guess...

For you information, I am caucasian. The fact of the matter is that the DA is perceived by South Africa's black majority as a "white" party and it's for that reason that many black people would never even consider voting for the DA. If they were to have a black leader, it would go a long way in saying "hey people of South Africa, we're a party for everyone, not just the white middle class".

IMO, you're hitting the nail on the head here. And for the record, I am not black, white or brown. In fact I'm not even mentioned in the constitution, so I guess I am a non-person...

Your unwillingness to accept this fact seems to indicate that it's you
with the colour issue. What concerns me is that we have an effective opposition party in this country. I couldn't care less what colour the leader of the DA is, as long as they get more votes next elections.

I second that. The part about effective opposition, not the colour issue part No comment on that

P.S. I've tried to be as objective as possible here, so don't flame me guys

 

[krycor]

well, I think if they had a younger head it might be better. Not very young.. but not old old old.. if they do go for a 'black' leader.. don't get very old one as the youth i suspect is becoming a big pull vote that if you can get to vote might make a difference too.

 

[Chatmaster]

From what I can read from this part, it doesn't seem there's any thing here claiming that Mbeki is better than anybody else.

If you read the entire paragraph in the article then it becomes clear that this is the case. The ANC and specifically Mbeki feels that they are not equal. Or maybe my English is very bad? Doesn't matter really, just amazes me that such a claim can be made... That is if Mbeki wasn't miss-quoted again... (Can't always believe what the press says. )

I also want to add that Seremane impressed me yesterday when he said he is not interested in becoming the party leader if he is appointed because of race, he wants the best person to be appointed regardless of race, that is a statement from a leader in my view.

 

[Too Good]

artificial absorbtion

I am sorry, I do not understand this part, is Mbeki claiming to be better than anybody else because he was elected to be

I have read what Thabo Mbeki has said and I personally do not have a problem with it. I think that the da has lost a good opposition leader, and from the people who have been mentioned in this forum I don't see anyone capable of filling his shoes. As for Seremane let's be honest: the only thing we know about him is that he is a black person in a very high position of the da. As for Hellen, I think she has a rare respect for good anc leaders. I also hold the opinion that the da, in terms of its policies, is no different from the anc, the da has become like a white mans version of the anc. In other words it seems that it believs in the same things that the anc believes in ,with the exception of those things that are against white interests. What the da has been reputed of doing is to potray the anc as people who do not really believe in their good policies (their bad actions negate their good policies). This is why I feel that Zille is a weak candidate- because the da does not in principle disagree (except in maters such as BEE) with the anc, it will be easy for the anc to influence her you may find her artificially absorbed into anc.

 

[Nick333]

I am sorry, I do not understand this part, is Mbeki claiming to be better than anybody else because he was elected to be

I have read what Thabo Mbeki has said and I personally do not have a problem with it. I think that the da has lost a good opposition leader, and from the people who have been mentioned in this forum I don't see anyone capable of filling his shoes. As for Seremane let's be honest: the only thing we know about him is that he is a black person in a very high position of the da. As for Hellen, I think she has a rare respect for good anc leaders. I also hold the opinion that the da, in terms of its policies, is no different from the anc, the da has become like a white mans version of the anc. In other words it seems that it believs in the same things that the anc believes in ,with the exception of those things that are against white interests. What the da has been reputed of doing is to potray the anc as people who do not really believe in their good policies (their bad actions negate their good policies). This is why I feel that Zille is a weak candidate- because the da does not in principle disagree (except in maters such as BEE) with the anc, it will be easy for the anc to influence her you may find her artificially absorbed into anc.

The Anc don't have bad policy for the most part, they are just not very good at implementation as you say. Oh and of course there s the problem with corruption. Of course corruption is universal but at least the DA has the motivation to root out corruption from within their own ranks, which may change if they ever get used to power. But thats what the ideal of multi-party politics is all about.

 

[GavinMannion]

because the da does not in principle disagree (except in maters such as BEE) with the anc, it will be easy for the anc to influence her you may find her artificially absorbed into anc.

I disagree with this, the opposition does not need to disagree in principle with what the ruling party is doing. Generally they would actually agree in principal but disagree with how they are going about it.

This has always been the problem with the DA, they would rather complain than give alternative options.

 

[Nick333]

Actually its the duty of all democratic parties to secure themselves the most votes. Mbeki is right in that he has the power of the majority vote behind him and therefore has the power of democracy behind him, where as Leon and the DA should have been concentrating on securing more votes where they mattered and using them to implement change. This is what Zille has done in the western cape and what her or someone like her should be doing so else where. Leon was just a noise maker and never really achieved anything worthwhile.

 

[kilo39]

I also hold the opinion that the da, in terms of its policies, is no different from the anc, the da has become like a white mans version of the anc. In other words it seems that it believs in the same things that the anc believes in ,with the exception of those things that are against white interests. What the da has been reputed of doing is to potray the anc as people who do not really believe in their good policies (their bad actions negate their good policies). This is why I feel that Zille is a weak candidate- because the da does not in principle disagree (except in maters such as BEE) with the anc, it will be easy for the anc to influence her you may find her artificially absorbed into anc.

How does all that square with this - post 24 on this thread:

Meanwhile, the Congress of South African Trade Unions (Cosatu) welcomed Leon's announcement, saying he would do best to go.

"Under his leadership the DA has shifted from a liberal ideology to an outright right-wing, conservative stance.

"He became a shop steward for big business and an enemy of the workers," Cosatu spokesperson Patrick Craven said. -

And how does the recent spat over CT square with your statements (of Zille being a patsy?) Notably no swembroek for Zille.

Also, DA (various names) has always been a left wing party. No, they are not looking after the interests of the whites (that too) but ostensibly looking after the interests of the whole country (which the anc consistently seems to fail to do.)

 

[DigitalSoldier]

some interesting comments about Tony Leon stepping down on iol.com

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=iol1164637102837P423

Zille's supporters:

Mushu:
I think she is a poweful, fearful women and makes me proud to be a black women and sorry to say, even some of the black leaders cannot come close to her brilliant skills... Viva Helen Viva

Anonymous:
Helen Zille, who speaks Afrikaans, English and Xhosa, will draw supporters from all South Africa's population groups. That is why she would be a good choice for the next DA leader.

Against Zille:

Results:
I'm fed up of hearing name's of who can do a better job in a political party. Who is Helen Zille? What good has this person done? Only when this person do good for our country then only their name will be on tops. I want results, not name's.

Joe wa lehutjo:
Who cares about DA? It is a capitulation of power from Tony Leon. His stepping down is being seen as white flag raised by the last white opposition party in Africa. Like it or not the last white opposition party is dying a slow death. Which means there will be no apartheid laws in this country. We will rename our cities and airports without a question from Tony Leon and his cahoots.

This Joe sounds a lot like a zuma supporter only caring about colour and black dominance .

 

[kilo39]

Joe wa lehutjo:
Who cares about DA? It is a capitulation of power from Tony Leon. His stepping down is being seen as white flag raised by the last white opposition party in Africa. Like it or not the last white opposition party is dying a slow death. Which means there will be no apartheid laws in this country. We will rename our cities and airports without a question from Tony Leon and his cahoots.

Ah, what a sad bunch: and what century is it again?

Seems the only people who question the anc are white people and this is very sad.

Billions no problem. Rename airport, no problem.

Shame.

 

[Too Good]

No to aternative option, u don't have it

.[/QUOTE]This has always been the problem with the DA, they would rather complain than give alternative options.[/QUOTE]

Don't you think that the reason the DA does not provide an alternative option is that the really don't have it? Thats why I feel that what people are advocating when they say "the DA needs a face lift, it must rid itself of the image of being a white party", may actually be detrimental to the the DA, because you might find that the reason the DA had so much success in the first place, was that people felt that in a country with politics dominated by the views of the black population there was a clear, powerful and effective voice that protects our aspiration and make us feel part of this country. In light of this I think if the DA is to survive, it must re-enforce the idea that we are protecting the interest of the white population. That is not bad thing, in a country with parties like AZAPO and the PAC who represent black people unashamedly. Otherwise the DA will have numbers but be ineffective and with its watered down stance resemble the ANC even more. So the point is not really providing an alternative option, but give assurance to that segment of the population that made you the DA that you are that you will continue to uphold its aspirations.

 

[kilo39]

This has always been the problem with the DA, they would rather complain than give alternative options.

Don't you think that the reason the DA does not provide an alternative option is that the really don't have it? Thats why I feel that what people are advocating when they say "the DA needs a face lift, it must rid itself of the image of being a white party", may actually be detrimental to the the DA, because you might find that the reason the DA had so much success in the first place, was that people felt that in a country with politics dominated by the views of the black population there was a clear, powerful and effective voice that protects our aspiration and make us feel part of this country. In light of this I think if the DA is to survive, it must re-enforce the idea that we are protecting the interest of the white population. That is not bad thing, in a country with parties like AZAPO and the PAC who represent black people unashamedly. Otherwise the DA will have numbers but be ineffective and with its watered down stance resemble the ANC even more. So the point is not really providing an alternative option, but give assurance to that segment of the population that made you the DA that you are that you will continue to uphold its aspirations.

Gads I've never before read such drivel (not just you TooGood) on a thread:

Complain? Damn right complain when billions are pilfered, lost in the paperwork (or lack thereof) and all the other actions (or lack thereof.) There is much to complain about (for instance, why are you here?) Basically if it wasn't for the small opposition in this country there would be absolutely NO CHECKS: if it wasn't for the DA sniping (or whoever) Yengeni would never have gone to jail, Zuma would never be up for corruption and every other check and balance in this country because for sure the anc isn't providing it.

How amongst all that do you want the DA to provide "alternative options." AFAIK the DA produces a alternate budget and has policy and aims. What more options would you like: exactly in the sense that the ANC controls the majority of municipalities (useless as they are) and of course all of government (exactly how many options are available?) Once again look at the fiasco of the CT mayorship - yeah, provide an option (anc throws its toys out the cot, HaHaHa.)

Wot are you talking about? The DA's song has always remained the same: working for ALL south africans. DA is not especially interested in WHITE VOTES: they did not setup apartheid and fought it all the way: in the interest of ALL. Nothings changed: except our majority and their insistence on voting for what is obviously a corrupt edifice with little interest beyond their own. (How far away are the people through that smoked glass, or even better at 35000 feet.) When will the cadres wake up?

 

[Too Good]

Gads I've never before read such drivel (not just you TooGood) on a thread:

Complain? Damn right complain when billions are pilfered, lost in the paperwork (or lack thereof) and all the other actions (or lack thereof.) There is much to complain about (for instance, why are you here?) Basically if it wasn't for the small opposition in this country there would be absolutely NO CHECKS: if it wasn't for the DA sniping (or whoever) Yengeni would never have gone to jail, Zuma would never be up for corruption and every other check and balance in this country because for sure the anc isn't providing it.

How amongst all that do you want the DA to provide "alternative options." AFAIK the DA produces a alternate budget and has policy and aims. What more options would you like: exactly in the sense that the ANC controls the majority of municipalities (useless as they are) and of course all of government (exactly how many options are available?) Once again look at the fiasco of the CT mayorship - yeah, provide an option (anc throws its toys out the cot, HaHaHa.)

Wot are you talking about? The DA's song has always remained the same: working for ALL south africans. DA is not especially interested in WHITE VOTES: they did not setup apartheid and fought it all the way: in the interest of ALL. Nothings changed: except our majority and their insistence on voting for what is obviously a corrupt edifice with little interest beyond their own. (How far away are the people through that smoked glass, or even better at 35000 feet.) When will the cadres wake up?

-An alternative budget is not necessarily an alternative policy option.
-Checks and balances do not mean an alternative policy.
-Offcause the DA is not interested in white votes only, but that does not mean it does not have the image of fighting for white people's interests.
-There is no despute about the corruption , lack of service delivery and the bahaviour of the Yengeni's in the ANC camp; infact that is part of the point. What we see is contrary to the beliefs of the anc as writen in its constitution .In other words we see bad actions that negate their good policies, as the DA has always potrayed the anc (i.e. people who won't leave up to their promices).

 

[jontyB]

I heard a very good quote the other day, it went something like this: "The one thing Africa is extremely good with is making policy. Implementing policy, however, is like an American dream in Harlem"

 

[kilo39]

-An alternative budget is not necessarily an alternative policy option.
-Checks and balances do not mean an alternative policy.
-Offcause the DA is not interested in white votes only, but that does not mean it does not have the image of fighting for white people's interests.
-There is no despute about the corruption , lack of service delivery and the bahaviour of the Yengeni's in the ANC camp; infact that is part of the point. What we see is contrary to the beliefs of the anc as writen in its constitution .In other words we see bad actions that negate their good policies, as the DA has always potrayed the anc (i.e. people who won't leave up to their promices).

Your expectations are too high: fact, nowadays, there is little difference (in 1st world democracies) between the policies of the left and right (one is more socialist leaning than another but both support the tenets of capitalism.) There is no alternative policy (anywhere in the world besides full blown socialism.) And any socialist policy (or for that matter capitalist policy) requires checks and balances as a fundamental theme: could go so far as to say this is the alternative policy: some respect for the rule of law and accounting procedure.

 

[Angelo]

DA leader Tony Leon's announcement that he would step down in 2007 is an admission that he failed to make the party pro-poor and pro-black, Western Cape premier Ebrahim Rasool has said.

Rasool agrees with some of you.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20061129125229928C486956