Tony Leon to Quit

[jontyB]

We are above that sort of stuff in this discussion though, I hope...?

ROFL

 

[xtermin8or]

I think the ANC are relieved not to have to listen to criticism. It takes a lot to have to be told where you are going wrong all the time. I'm sure to the average Xhosa elder, this British style of politics is an anethema.

The Xhosa and other black African tribes have accepted Western style of economics, fashion, technology, education, so I wonder why they resist acceptance of democracy, the rule of law and oppositional politics?

Angelo or myself did not bring race into this thread, but some people can't see beyond their own bigotry, as the quote above clearly shows - one has to admit that the democracy we enjoy today ( led by a Xhosa BTW ) is much better than the Government we had before - of course there will be teething problems - the democracy is only twelve years old - but it is still a democracy

@ Tassidar - who says a democracy is only tested once the ruling party is voted out of power - if - like in SA - we have a truly representative ruling party, fulfilling the needs of the majority - they will stay in power - why vote for a party like the DA, who doesn't care about you, when you can vote for a party that looks after your interests - that is what a representative democracy is -

@ Debbie

freedom of expression; freedom of association ( protected by the constitution);

the drive towards equality of opportunity ( employment equity, BEE, AA);

accountability ( I see this everyday ) ;

transparency( freedom of information);

the meeting of basic needs (what more can be said about this)

this is encapsulated in the constitution and the very things the current government is trying to achieve - once again I will say - because you don't see it - does not mean it is not happening

 

[jontyB]

@ Tassidar - who says a democracy is only tested once the ruling party is voted out of power - if - like in SA - we have a truly representative ruling party, fulfilling the needs of the majority - they will stay in power - why vote for a party like the DA, who doesn't care about you, when you can vote for a party that looks after your interests - that is what a representative democracy is -

I think the split support for Zuma in the ANC is enough evidence that the ANC is in no way truly representative. Also, despite the majority of the ANC MPs not being happy about the Civil Unions bill, the ANC madated a compulsory Yes vote. Once again, not trully representative.

 

[Angelo]

As usual, you show yourself to be unable to accept white rule, far more than the whites show themselves to be unable to accept black rule.

We are not under white rule so what white rule am I unable to accept? The white rule we had was terrible for the country and we duly ousted it.

 

[Skeptik]

Angelo or myself did not bring race into this thread, but some people can't see beyond their own bigotry, as the quote above clearly shows - one has to admit that the democracy we enjoy today ( led by a Xhosa BTW ) is much better than the Government we had before - of course there will be teething problems - the democracy is only twelve years old - but it is still a democracy

There is absolutely no reference to race in my previous post. I look forward to your reasoning and explanation as to how I am now a "bigot".

Our so-called democracy is 12 years old. Does that mean it doesn't have to be a fully-fledged democracy? At what 'age' does this event occur. I'd like to know so I can mark it on my calendar.

We are not under white rule so what white rule am I unable to accept? The white rule we had was terrible for the country and we duly ousted it.

Sorry to burst your Afro-centric bubble mate, but "you" didn't oust anything. My history book tells me there was a negotiated settlement, initiated by PW Botha, where a new constitution was agreed. In the voting that followed, white people chose a democracy. Sadly, reading one's daily copy of "ANC Today" does not necessarily equip one to speak about all matters relating to the history of RSA D ).

 

[xtermin8or]

I think the ANC are relieved not to have to listen to criticism. It takes a lot to have to be told where you are going wrong all the time. I'm sure to the average Xhosa elder, this British style of politics is an anethema.

The Xhosa and other black African tribes have accepted Western style of economics, fashion, technology, education, so I wonder why they resist acceptance of democracy, the rule of law and oppositional politics?

There is your reference to race - bigot

 

[Skeptik]

There is your reference to race - bigot

OK, apologies, I did use the word "race", but what I meant was that it was hardly used in a "bigoted" sense. Maybe you can suggest a better way of making the point.

I'm still waiting for your explanation as to how democracy came here with the dark-skinned people. ...there I didn't say 'black' this time [King Shaka would be rolling in his grave ]

I suggest you go look up the word bigot and refrain from using insults. An insult just degrades the thread and doesn't contribute much to the debate.

 

[xtermin8or]

OK, apologies, I did use the word "race", but what I meant was that it was hardly used in a "bigoted" sense. Maybe you can suggest a better way of making the point.

I'm still waiting for your explanation as to how democracy came here with the dark-skinned people. ...there I didn't say 'black' this time [King Shaka would be rolling in his grave ]

I suggest you go look up the word bigot and refrain from using insults. An insult just degrades the thread and doesn't contribute much to the debate.

your post is clearly prejudicial at the very least - as you say Xhosa and other black African tribes can not accept democracy - whether this is true or not is beside the point - your post is inherently racist and therefore you paint yourself as a bigot

Many of the leaders of the liberation struggle came from the Xhosa tribes - therefore it is unfair to say they have not accepted democracy - when they brought democracy to the country ( first democratic elections were held in SA in 1994)

 

[jontyB]

your post is clearly prejudicial at the very least

And yours aren't? Kettle. Pot. Pot. Kettle.

 

[xtermin8or]

where have i painted an entire race group, cultural group, or ethnic minority etc with the same brush - as many of you on this forum do in almost every post ?

 

[jontyB]

where have i painted an entire race group, cultural group, or ethnic minority etc with the same brush - as many of you on this forum do in almost every post ?

No, you are just generally prejudiced against everyone on this forum who doesn't agree with you. Usually and generally in favour of the ANC. You also like that race card. A lot.

 

[(DmZ)Wrecky]

No, you are just generally prejudiced against everyone on this forum who doesn't agree with you. Usually and generally in favour of the ANC. You also like that race card. A lot.

I second that.

 

[xtermin8or]

No, you are just generally prejudiced against everyone on this forum who doesn't agree with you. Usually and generally in favour of the ANC. You also like that race card. A lot.

not only on this forum, but in real life too, I can't help it - Im almost always right - and when Im not - I'm right about being wrong - accept it -

In all seriousness defending your point of view - and believing in your opinions are not racist - generalisations of entire race, tribal, or ethnic groups however is -

 

[Debbie]

Are we over-sensitive?

 

[Vrotappel]

If all fails use the race card - ANC politics 101.

Back to Tony Leon - I will miss him.

 

[Skeptik]

To answer my own question since Xtermin8tor is hedging it .... The tribes to the North were very much Kingdoms. The Kings were very ruthless and would not hesitate to cut a man down for speaking out. King Shaka was one of the worst despots in human history.
Things have changed, this country has moved on. We have and need a Tony Leon to ask the questions and hold government accountable. To consider him a lapdog or an irrelevance is just not democratic. A big culture change is mandatory.

 

[icyrus]

not only on this forum, but in real life too, I can't help it - Im almost always right

I love it when people openly say things like this about themselves. It means you can be sure without to much further thought that 90% of what will come out of their mouth is garbage.

 

[Skeptik]

BIGOT "a person who holds an opinion obstinately and is intolerant towards those who disagree."
- Oxford Minidictionary

 

[Neo]

BIGOT "a person who holds an opinion obstinately and is intolerant towards those who disagree."
- Oxford Minidictionary

Haven't heard a better definition of Skeptik and his posts in a long time:

obstinately: If not so sad, it would've been funny how Skeptik will cling to a (nonexistent) point even after everyone tells him to wake up. The "Vodacom is tracking myadsl members via their forum posts" was a particularly good one.

intolerant: Watch how he attacks everyone on the forum; rpm, ic, debbie2, v3g and anyone else who might disagree with him.

And then the clincher; the nerve to call other bigots