Trouble acheiving Ketosis in Recipes

[SoulTax]

Another interesting, completely side note to Ketosis and the benefits of it on your mental state.

After doing some research into Ketosis, I came across some mention of a Keto diet for epileptic kids. My mother has a rare form of epilepsy that manifested later in life. She only started taking drugs for it in her 40s. So I asked her about the drugs, and it turns out that the drugs artificially force the brain to run in a higher ketosis state, regardless of your diet. These drugs stabilise the chemical imbalance that causes her brain to have episodes.
So there is a pretty strong case for why ketosis is actually better for your mental health and brain function. Aside from the fact that fatty acids are an essential building block of the brain.

 

[Batista]

Ketosis is NOT BAD.
Mood swings? Nope. I'm far more stable when I'm in ketosis.
What happened? The food I was eating was poisoning me. Should I just eat less poison?

Please take your uninformed opinions and klap gym charna.

nope, NK is not bad at all

the mood swings were probably related to other factors including your body going through the adaptation process

you are talking to a group of guys that have done/are doing lots of research into this particular subject so be careful with your assumptions

Lol , you are talking to somone that passed their personal training and nutrition qualification with distinction?

 

[RanzB]

Lol , you are talking to somone that passed their personal training and nutrition qualification with distinction?

Whoah. That makes you, like, an expert.

 

[OMB]

Lol , you are talking to somone that passed their personal training and nutrition qualification with distinction?

means nothing to me given that a lot of people are historically trained on bad science

 

[DJ...]

Just cook double for dinner, and mix and match for lunches over the next few days. For example, I have leftover cooked chicken breast, guacamole, picco de gallo (raw salsa), and roasted vegetables in the fridge. Here's what I did:

Chicken (1 small breast) - 69g
Roasted veg - 93g
Picco de gallo - 217g
Guacamole - 194g
Olive oil - 50g (I added it to the bowl)

It is absolutely bloody delicious. Looks odd, but tastes amazing. I'll add it to the calculator and post the results here.

Also note that I updated the app late last night so download the latest version instead of the one you have installed. It is much better...

And here are the results of this dish:

So my protein intake in terms of weight is a little under, which is fine.
My veg and fruit is well over the goal for weight, but also fine because it gives me some leeway with the next meal.
The oils by weight are spot on.
No dairy yet - gonna save that for dinner.

Looking at the ratios for this meal:

My fat intake is good. Not 4:1 ratio yet which leads me to believe that I need to adjust my goals a little differently here. Eating my goals will not achieve optimal ketosis ratio.

The quantity bar chart is self explanatory.

The fat deficit calculation is interesting. Based on the number of carbs and protein I ate today, I'm short 120g of fat for a 4:1 ratio. But this is so far much better than yesterday's 498g deficit. So we're making progress.

My calorie intake is good so far. In fact perfect imo.

The one area of concern is that I've already eaten 30g of carbs today. I got most of that from the guacamole. The avo is great for upping the fat but is still high in carbs, relatively speaking, for a fruit. So that leaves me with a bit of a conundrum - what do I eat for dinner in order to ensure that I'm not consuming carbs again today, while maintaining my increased fat intake ratio and low protein? It's a fine balancing act. I'll have to get back to this one after some thought...

 

[SoulTax]

Lol , you are talking to somone that passed their personal training and nutrition qualification with distinction?

As did I..... You need to remember that all dietary related fields, (Personal trainers, dietitians, doctors, etc...) Are taught on the material that is most commonly accepted at the time.

Simply because your personal trainer course included the "Post '85 westernised dietary guideline", doesn't mean that it is correct. As a personal trainer you should be coming abreast of any and all health and training related methodologies. If you are going to stick to what you were taught at college, you will turn into one of those "dinosaurs" in your field within a decade.

 

[Batista]

Whoah. That makes you, like, an expert.

 

[DJ...]

Another interesting, completely side note to Ketosis and the benefits of it on your mental state.

After doing some research into Ketosis, I came across some mention of a Keto diet for epileptic kids. My mother has a rare form of epilepsy that manifested later in life. She only started taking drugs for it in her 40s. So I asked her about the drugs, and it turns out that the drugs artificially force the brain to run in a higher ketosis state, regardless of your diet. These drugs stabilise the chemical imbalance that causes her brain to have episodes.
So there is a pretty strong case for why ketosis is actually better for your mental health and brain function. Aside from the fact that fatty acids are an essential building block of the brain.

Actually the ketogenic diet was first introduced specifically to treat epilepsy in the 1920s. The weight-loss was an observed side-effect. It lost favour to drugs but is now being very widely adopted by sufferers, with very good success rates. It's also being researched with respect to its cancer slowing abilities - we await some actual clinical evidence though...

 

[Batista]

means nothing to me given that a lot of people are historically trained on bad science

My bad then,continue with your diets.All the best.

 

[mister]

why why why why why?Ketosis is bad.What happenend to just eating less of the same foods you currently eating and working out a bit more?I did Ketosis once while getting shredded for summer...worst moodswings ever!
In the long run, this is bad.You all need to stop the on and off dieting and make a permanent change to your lifestyle if healthy living is your goal.

Absolute rubbish - ketosis is a normal state, and one which your body enters into on daily basis, albeit on a smaller scale.

Some people are so metabolically challenged by years of bad eating that just reducing their caloric intake is not enough to lose fat, and certainly not enough to reverse the damage they have caused. Manipulating hormones to your advantage requires a far more aggressive approach than simply reducing your calories, and in some cases people have so damaged their metabolic machinery that will never be able to return again to "normal" eating, and would be wise to keep their consumption of junk carbohydrates to a minimum or endure the diabetes and heart disease that the modern diet creates.

 

[OMB]

My bad then,continue with your diets.All the best.

thanks, no offense meant, but really I've been amazed at the amount of bad science that has been taught over the last 40 years in the field of nutrition, undoing what has become the embedded "wisdom" is taking time, but there's a growing number of experts that are starting to swim against the mainstream

 

[SoulTax]

Actually the ketogenic diet was first introduced specifically to treat epilepsy in the 1920s. The weight-loss was an observed side-effect. It lost favour to drugs but is now being very widely adopted by sufferers, with very good success rates. It's also being researched with respect to its cancer slowing abilities - we await some actual clinical evidence though...

We probably read the same article then. This is just another case where people take the easy way: Pharmaceuticals. And big business takes the profitable way: Pharmaceuticals. To achieve something that is perfectly achievable through lifestyle choices.

My mother is a little hesitant at the moment but I am hoping that, in conjunction with an up to date doctor, she might be able to try slowly coming off the drugs if she can reach ketosis with diet and actually stay there for the long term. I understand her hesitation though, the drugs are working and she doesn't want to mess with something that is working.

 

[Batista]

As did I..... You need to remember that all dietary related fields, (Personal trainers, dietitians, doctors, etc...) Are taught on the material that is most commonly accepted at the time.

Simply because your personal trainer course included the "Post '85 westernised dietary guideline", doesn't mean that it is correct. As a personal trainer you should be coming abreast of any and all health and training related methodologies. If you are going to stick to what you were taught at college, you will turn into one of those "dinosaurs" in your field within a decade.

Let me put this into perspective for whoever is interested.

I started reading up on dieting and exercising since i was 13.I gymed from age 13 till 23.I then only went to get a personal trainer qualification, which i thought was a complete waste of time and not to mention money as I knew 80% of what was taught simply from my own researching previously.
I thought i would work in my dream job and was so excited to leave I.T.I left to train a few people, and realised quickly that I do not have patience required to teach ppl how to loose weight when they cant even take 5 mins out their day to jot down what their daily meals were.Back into I.T. and never leaving.
So in short, not training currently for the past 3 years, as i would look a bit out of proportion (small head, big shoulders etc), I only train one month a year when i receive that dreaded sms from Virgin active lol

So apologies to all if i offended you.

 

[Batista]

Absolute rubbish - ketosis is a normal state, and one which your body enters into on daily basis, albeit on a smaller scale.

Some people are so metabolically challenged by years of bad eating that just reducing their caloric intake is not enough to lose fat, and certainly not enough to reverse the damage they have caused. Manipulating hormones to your advantage requires a far more aggressive approach than simply reducing your calories, and in some cases people have so damaged their metabolic machinery that will never be able to return again to "normal" eating, and would be wise to keep their consumption of junk carbohydrates to a minimum or endure the diabetes and heart disease that the modern diet creates.

Ketosis is normal yes, but when you do it in extreme cases (like i have) it tends to mess with your head a bit.Was flippin awesome though, lost 10 kgs in a month.But that was in combination with running on an empty tummy in the morning (sprints) and working out twice daily for 40 mins a piece.

 

[DJ...]

We probably read the same article then. This is just another case where people take the easy way: Pharmaceuticals. And big business takes the profitable way: Pharmaceuticals. To achieve something that is perfectly achievable through lifestyle choices.

My mother is a little hesitant at the moment but I am hoping that, in conjunction with an up to date doctor, she might be able to try slowly coming off the drugs if she can reach ketosis with diet and actually stay there for the long term. I understand her hesitation though, the drugs are working and she doesn't want to mess with something that is working.

That is absolutely understandable. I'm on drugs that if I stopped, would reduce my weight to its usual levels. My situation is a little different in that it's an anti-psychotic used to treat my bipolar, so there's no stopping it at all.

I'd suggest that you get as much info as possible, and send her as much actual, referenced and peer-reviewed research that you can find from sites like pubmed and start the education process. Nobody will want to change what's working for them until they are confident in the process itself. And that's not to say that the two can't work hand in hand. There are plenty of resources on epilepsy websites as well to help out. It's not a guaranteed solution, so the risk needs to be worth the reward.

But remember that if its being touted as a solution for her epilepsy, she will have to stick as close to the 4:1 ratio as possible...

 

[SoulTax]

Let me put this into perspective for whoever is interested.

I started reading up on dieting and exercising since i was 13.I gymed from age 13 till 23.I then only went to get a personal trainer qualification, which i thought was a complete waste of time and not to mention money as I knew 80% of what was taught simply from my own researching previously.
I thought i would work in my dream job and was so excited to leave I.T.I left to train a few people, and realised quickly that I do not have patience required to teach ppl how to loose weight when they cant even take 5 mins out their day to jot down what their daily meals were.Back into I.T. and never leaving.
So in short, not training currently for the past 3 years, as i would look a bit out of proportion (small head, big shoulders etc), I only train one month a year when i receive that dreaded sms from Virgin active lol

So apologies to all if i offended you.

Nah no offense taken at all man. I am in a similar boat. Did the PT course, trained some people, realised that I would spend the majority of my job trying to convince some fat slob that doesn't actually want to be there, that exercise is good for them. Left to IT. Haha, you my younger evil twin or something?

Everyone will have just defended Keto against your allegation because, as far as the Keto research goes, your allegation is unfounded. The mood swings may have been caused by your body attempting to enter into Ketosis. Keto flu can make you feel really ****, which mixed with a testosterone filled young male, can result in mood swings I would imagine. But it is not to say that keto itself is bad for you. Just your body attempting to kick the old habit was an uncomfortable place to be in.

Liken it to a heroin addict that goes through withdrawal. That addict would swear in a court of law, that not being on Heroin was bad for them, based on the reaction that their body had to coming off of it. From their perspective it may seem that way, but as we all know, heroin is bad for you. Carbs are not the same kind of bad, but it is a similar situation.

 

[SoulTax]

That is absolutely understandable. I'm on drugs that if I stopped, would reduce my weight to its usual levels. My situation is a little different in that it's an anti-psychotic used to treat my bipolar, so there's no stopping it at all.

I'd suggest that you get as much info as possible, and send her as much actual, referenced and peer-reviewed research that you can find from sites like pubmed and start the education process. Nobody will want to change what's working for them until they are confident in the process itself. And that's not to say that the two can't work hand in hand. There are plenty of resources on epilepsy websites as well to help out. It's not a guaranteed solution, so the risk needs to be worth the reward.

But remember that if its being touted as a solution for her epilepsy, she will have to stick as close to the 4:1 ratio as possible...

Yep, the risk is that the 4:1 ratio would need to be kept at all times. Which is a hard thing to do, so she would probably have to stay on the drugs anyway. But perhaps she could reduce the dosage if she got onto a keto diet, keeping up the drugs to ensure a backup plan, should the occasional birthday cake pop up on the menu. The drugs she takes are a little heavy on the liver, so any way to reduce the dosage without adverse effect would be good.

 

[DJ...]

I wonder whether slowing your meals down to two a day would help somewhat? We know that eating more, smaller meals a day does not boost the metabolism at all. That's a myth. It simply stabilises energy levels which gives the perception of having more energy, but in reality just means you don't slump at all in energy levels.

So would inducing a mild form of fasting between meals help? It might. I know that Peter Attia uses intermittent fasting ratios to speed up ketosis and maintain his levels, but I wonder if shorter fasting might also help?

 

[DJ...]

Yep, the risk is that the 4:1 ratio would need to be kept at all times. Which is a hard thing to do, so she would probably have to stay on the drugs anyway. But perhaps she could reduce the dosage if she got onto a keto diet, keeping up the drugs to ensure a backup plan, should the occasional birthday cake pop up on the menu. The drugs she takes are a little heavy on the liver, so any way to reduce the dosage without adverse effect would be good.

Unfortunately lowering doses is not as simple as that. The one might not necessarily counter the other, and the doses are probably very specific to her physiology and type of epilepsy. They might not even be effective at all in lower doses. Who knows? Would be great if her doctor agrees to lower the dose.

But the ketogenic diet can't hurt unless she is diabetic or has suppressed thyroid function as well...

 

[Batista]

Nah no offense taken at all man. I am in a similar boat. Did the PT course, trained some people, realised that I would spend the majority of my job trying to convince some fat slob that doesn't actually want to be there, that exercise is good for them. Left to IT. Haha, you my younger evil twin or something?

Everyone will have just defended Keto against your allegation because, as far as the Keto research goes, your allegation is unfounded. The mood swings may have been caused by your body attempting to enter into Ketosis. Keto flu can make you feel really ****, which mixed with a testosterone filled young male, can result in mood swings I would imagine. But it is not to say that keto itself is bad for you. Just your body attempting to kick the old habit was an uncomfortable place to be in.

Liken it to a heroin addict that goes through withdrawal. That addict would swear in a court of law, that not being on Heroin was bad for them, based on the reaction that their body had to coming off of it. From their perspective it may seem that way, but as we all know, heroin is bad for you. Carbs are not the same kind of bad, but it is a similar situation.

Lol very weird ,maybe i am your evil step brother:twisted:
Yes, i think as a result of overtraining and this carb reduced diet, it just made me loose my freaking mind.I would consider Keto again, but not for extended periods of time while overtraining.There is no doubt its a powerful tool to have in your arsenal, but one that can make you go bonkers aswell if not done correctly.