UK airplanes plot an attempt at 'mass murder'

[TELESPHORE]

Its a game of power, those in power dont want to relenquish their power, and those who dont have it desperately want it , and, its about control, control of the wealth, the minerals, the oil, the information and the people.QUOTE]

Exactly my point a few times already. Power is something that when abused causes war.

 

[Cage Rattler]

Seems safer to live in the southern hemisphere than in the northern hemisphere.

 

[noxibox]

Watch Obsession when it comes out...

Our biggest worry should be when Bush and Blairs terms finish... They are doing a great job at keeping extremists in check.

While they are anti-freedom Bush and Blair are not the most extreme members of their respective governments.

 

[noxibox]

GW Bush said they hate our way of life and our freedoms in the West when people asked why 9/11 happened.

Sadly most people are too dumb and trusting of their govt and did not even question this absurd stupid statement.

The only ones who hate our freedoms are the likes of Bush, Blair and their supporters. They have gleefully jumped on every opportunity to destroy freedoms that were won in the past with blood and hardship.

Sadly the people are so busy cowering in their little hovels that they don't realise the terrorists have already won. If their goal was to attack and destroy freedom they have achieved their aims.

 

[noxibox]

The UK should just kick out all the Muslims who are using state funds [i.e. welfare] because I can tell you now, they're brewing nothing but trouble. It's a hardline solution but it will work.

I have a better plan. Just kill all religious people. Christians, Jews, Muslims. Kill 'em all.

Or maybe they're just brewing coffee afterall.

 

[noxibox]

How despondent you must feel seeing the plot was thwarted.

What plot? So far there is little evidence of any real plot. This wouldn't be the first time the UK and US governments have fabricated a plot.

Last year's attack in the UK was nothing more than a few crazy guys unaffiliated to any organisation.

 

[kilo39]

Seems safer to live in the southern hemisphere than in the northern hemisphere.

Actually would think if you added the numbers north is safer: the world south of the equator is one big cemetery of government non-management on AIDS, Malaria, TB, plain old starvation and lots of crime; not to forget the occasional crime against humanity and the many wars.

 

[noxibox]

You make it sound like the the US and UK are the only countries operating like that... That is a bit naive TD. We all know nobody is right all the time and nobody is wrong all the time. Something you (and most people) forget is that democratic countries have changing governments. It is wrong to blame a current democratic government for the sins of past ones in any geographical area. Technically it is a new government every couple of years...

It is appropriated to point fingers at them. These countries pretend to be bastions of freedom.

Neither country can be said to have had a genuinely new government for decades. Democrat, Republican, what's the difference, other than that the Republicans are more overt about being fascists? Same goes for Tory, Labour.

 

[kilo39]

What plot? So far there is little evidence of any real plot. This wouldn't be the first time the UK and US governments have fabricated a plot.

Last year's attack in the UK was nothing more than a few crazy guys unaffiliated to any organisation.

Well, except MI5, fbi and cia of course!

'terror to go'

For instance

 

[noxibox]

Tens of thousands of people have died in Zimbabwe in the past 10 years at the hands of Robert Mugabe. The SA government has provided the Mugabe government with resources (electricity, fuel, by some accounts weapons), and in fact has quietly stalled any progress in bringing real democracy and freedom to that country. This same government has "turned its morality on" to denounce the Lebanon conflict, whilst it turns a blind eye to the mass murder occurring on its doorstep.
And so by your own logic above, SA then deserves to be targeted for terrorist attacks of a large and deadly scale by Zimbabwian freedom fighters? According to you, the people of SA - due to their part in electing a government that has "nourished and supported" a "regime in their repression" - should die horrible and unnecessary deaths.

As with Israel I'd support attacks against those responsible. If The Zimbwean Jihad wish to assassinate the leaders in South Africa responsible for supporting a man of pure evil like Mugabe, then they are absolutely welcome to do so. In Israel the PLO and others should be killing the leaders, the people who give the orders. I felt the same way when the ANC were fighting here in South Africa.

It is easy to point fingers at the people, but in reality the people have at best nominal control over their government.

 

[noxibox]

Well, except MI5, fbi and cia of course!

The second lot, the ones who failed dismally, that was far too convenient. Four guys and not one manages to successfully detonate their bomb? They were very useful for escalating the fear level as some Britons fell over themselves to welcome the opportunity to give up freedom for the delusion of security.

What the world needs is to set up a police state somewhere, then ship these people there so they can live without freedom, but get all the security they crave. A state agent can be assigned to each house, to live in with the citizens, to make sure they're safe from harm at all times. Then the rest of us can embrace freedom and the risks of life that go with it.

 

[Nom Chompsky]

Neither country can be said to have had a genuinely new government for decades. Democrat, Republican, what's the difference, other than that the Republicans are more overt about being fascists? Same goes for Tory, Labour.

What happens if the government is doing a good job? Shouldn't they stay in power again? An example is Aus - as lewstherin has pointed out, the country has got a 100% literate population so claims that they are uneducated/'voting on emotion' etc would be incorrect. A similar situation exists in US/UK...the population know what's going on in their country so to say people are stupid to vote in the 'incorrect President' would again be unfounded.

However in Africa there can be a suspicion or thought that votes are rigged because Africa has an Army of dictators unwilling to relinquish control if they lose.

 

[Debbie]

The only ones who hate our freedoms are the likes of Bush, Blair and their supporters. They have gleefully jumped on every opportunity to destroy freedoms that were won in the past with blood and hardship.

Yes. The USA government claim to be fighting for democracy in their wars in the rest of the world. But at the same time that they say they are 'fighting for democracy' abroad, they are restricting democracy at home. They are essentially telling the American people to give up their freedoms in order to have their freedom.

"It's easier to fight for a principle than to actually live up to one" (not my own words).

 

[Cage Rattler]

Former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan Craig Murray says the alleged transatlantic liquid bomb plot is staged-managed propaganda on behalf of Bush and Blair - who yearn for a "new 9/11" to absolve them of domestic political trouble.

Murray questions the intent and capability of the alleged terrorists to carry out the attack and offers the likelihood that evidence of the plot was obtained through torture in Pakistan.

"None of the alleged terrorists had made a bomb. None had bought a plane ticket. Many did not even have passports, which given the efficiency of the UK Passport Agency would mean they couldn't be a plane bomber for quite some time," says Murray.

"In the absence of bombs and airline tickets, and in many cases passports, it could be pretty difficult to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt that individuals intended to go through with suicide bombings, whatever rash stuff they may have bragged in internet chat rooms."

"Then an interrogation in Pakistan revealed the details of this amazing plot to blow up multiple planes - which, rather extraordinarily, had not turned up in a year of surveillance. Of course, the interrogators of the Pakistani dictator have their ways of making people sing like canaries. As I witnessed in Uzbekistan, you can get the most extraordinary information this way. Trouble is it always tends to give the interrogators all they might want, and more, in a desperate effort to stop or avert torture. What it doesn't give is the truth."

Murray describes the alert as "more propaganda than plot," and points out that of all the Muslim terror suspects who have been charged, 80% have been acquitted and only 2% have ever been convicted on offenses related to terrorism.

 

[Nom Chompsky]

SA man held as a terror suspect

A Cape Town man spent the night in a city police station, where he was questioned about terrorist links, after being refused entry into Britain at Heathrow Airport.

UK immigration officials told Muhammed Shafique Ur-Rehman, 33, a Pakistani married to a South African, that his documentation needed to be checked when he arrived back at Cape Town International Airport.

Source: IOL

 

[noxibox]

The USA government claim to be fighting for democracy in their wars in the rest of the world.

At best they were fighting against communism, not for democracy. In this endeavour they enthusiastically assisted and supported a long list of ruthless dictators and police states, including South Africa.

 

[kilo39]

Former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan Craig Murray says the alleged transatlantic liquid bomb plot is staged-managed propaganda on behalf of Bush and Blair - who yearn for a "new 9/11" to absolve them of domestic political trouble.

Ah Cage Rattler - any chance of a link to that story? Interesting guys (and girls) - glad to see I'm not the only 'paranoid one' here.

 

[chiskop]

any chance of a link to that story?

Here, here and of course here.

 

[kilo39]

Yeah, I can't wait for the conspiracy theories to come out - I'll just laugh at them with their idiotic reasoning. Some people never seem to take things at face value.

The UK should just kick out all the Muslims who are using state funds [i.e. welfare] because I can tell you now, they're brewing nothing but trouble. It's a hardline solution but it will work.

thanks for those links chiskop - especially the google one! Was thinking it was a main stream story - but then of course it wasn't - I mean - we wouldn't/couldn't expect Rupert Murdoch to publish that.

Some people always seem to take things at face value.

And real model of forbearance and tolerance there Dominic - we should all take note - wouldn't the world be a better place??!

 

[Alan]

The only ones who hate our freedoms are the likes of Bush, Blair and their supporters. They have gleefully jumped on every opportunity to destroy freedoms that were won in the past with blood and hardship.

Sadly the people are so busy cowering in their little hovels that they don't realise the terrorists have already won. If their goal was to attack and destroy freedom they have achieved their aims.

Blood and Hardship that people like you exacerbated through pacifism. Every time the West comes under threat the same old excuses seem to pop up.All of them too avoid taking firm action that will require the above mentioned blood and hardship.

Taking necessary precautions is not cowering. Cowering, is ignoring threats in the hope that it is some sort of fanciful goverment conspiracy.