UK Elections 2016

[Chevron]

Regarding last year's, but still interesting:

[video=youtube;r9rGX91rq5I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9rGX91rq5I[/video]

 

[Hamish McPanji]

Regarding last year's, but still interesting:

Yeah, I have a distinct dislike for FPTP system because it disempowers so many people. Last years election was particularly skewed.

Would the large parties ever change it? Never, because allows them to win everything with only a slight majority, and makes it difficult for new entrants.

But the one advantage that I have seen over proportional representation is that the people actually have a relationship with their local MP, and you are voting for the person and the party rather than just the party

 

[TriGuN]

Well, you should answer yes, because it does increasingly seem to be the entirety of your argument. You haven't actually come up with anything else

I could make other arguments, but I won't need to. This one will do.

Impressive list you came up with there. Is that from the Greens website, or is that just the same exaggeration that you seem to excel at.

You're happy to defend the Greens without even knowing their policies?
Actually, it's worse than I portrayed it to be. I condensed the list to a handful of the most important bullet points because I didn't want people to "TL;DR" them in the Brexit thread.

And all political parties make these BS promises that they can't possibly afford. That is the nature of the game. What makes the Greens any different?

Nobody makes promises like these. Nobody is so out of touch with reality like the Greens. To make matters worse, half of their promises would obviously be catastrophic for the UK. I'm pretty sure those aren't the kinds of promises you're supposed to make.

And am assuming from your lack of response (which seems normal for you when asked a seemingly straightforward yet telling question) about the Muslim accusation that you don't actually know any Muslims (barring the TV ones).

Stupid question. Of course I have. Who hasn't?

Colleagues, land lords, even a friend.

Anyway, the vast majority of them weren't liberal or progressive.. Hardly surprising to anyone who wasn't born yesterday. Do YOU know any muslims Imran?
I assume you do, because you are one, and yet you're acting like you don't know that muslims are generally very conservative.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Yeah, but he fell under the "other" category. I can't find any decent stats for this anywhere, but basically their candidate was just below the "Cannabis is Safer than Alcohol" party.

You showed me the way. I didn't think it was possible to find someone so quickly. Many thanks

 

[TriGuN]

https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/

Anti borders
Pro mass immigration

MG203 Richer regions and communities do not have the right to use migration controls to protect their privileges from others in the long term..

MG206 The Green Party is opposed to forced migration and forced repatriation..

MG300 We will work to achieve greater equity between the UK and non-Western countries. In step with this, we will progressively reduce UK immigration controls..

MG205 Migration policies should not discriminate directly on grounds of race, colour, religion, political belief, disability, sex or sexual orientation. Preference should not be given to those with resources or desirable skills.

MG401 We will allow the partners, prospective partners, immediate families and prospective families of British residents to join them without excessive delays or unreasonable requirements for proof of relationship. This will be independent of the financial status of the resident and will not be dependent on her/him providing accommodation

MG402 A person's right to stay will not be linked to that of partners or families but will be independent.

MG404 Migrants illegally in the UK for over five years will be allowed to remain

MG412 No prospective immigrant will be held in detention for migration-related reasons, other than in the most exceptional circumstances, eg a prospective migrant who poses a serious danger to public safety.

MG414 Transport providers must not be penalised for bringing people without the required visas, etc. to the UK.

MG420 We will resist all attempts to introduce a 'barrier round Europe' shutting out non-Europeans

Want to make it legal to belong to islamic terrorist organisations
Undermine the use of the loaded term "terrorist"

PD440 Terrorism is an extremely loaded term, frequently used by those in power to justify excessive use of force or the weakening of controls on the exercise of their power. Sometimes governments justify their own terrorist acts by labelling any groups that resist their monopoly of violence "terrorist". A Green government, by implementing principles laid out elsewhere in this manifesto, particularly those of self-determination and non-interventionist foreign policies, would seek to overcome the unjust divisions within our global and domestic society and address the desperate motivations that lie behind many atrocities labelled "terrorist"..

PD443 Those accused or found guilty of atrocities, or planning to commit, aid or abet in their execution, should be dealt with under the same principles as those accused of more conventional criminal activities. In particular, those accused of supporting terrorist acts should have normal rights against arbitrary arrest or imprisonment. It should not be a crime simply to belong to an organisation or have sympathy with its aims, though it should be a crime to aid and abet criminal acts or deliberately fund such acts..

Scrap Nuclear weapons
Disband the military except for a small peace keeping force
Convert the arms industry into producing wind turbines
Leave NATO

PD201 Warfare in the context of present offensive weapon systems, nuclear or non-nuclear, is so dangerous that it can not be regarded as a sane instrument of policy..

PD202 "Defence" is the protection of homeland against attack and does not justify pre-emptive strikes against nations and organisations..

PD204 The defence budget needs to be adequate to ensure security, but no more so. Military preparations are a drain on our resources, as well as being a source of threat..

PD205 Nuclear weapons are political weapons of terror.. The Green Party is committed to pursuing immediate and unconditional nuclear disarmament..

PD302 On inspection, there is little or no threat of direct invasion of the UK by any nation. Commitment to a large standing army, a navy of large warships around our coastline, squadrons of fighter planes and a cripplingly expensive missile defence system is therefore unnecessary. Any threat of invasion that might arise in the future is so remote that realignment of the UK military and defence preparations would be possible long before any invasion occurred..

PD303 Similarly, the unhelpful and aggressive concept of nuclear deterrence (with the inherent dangers of handling concentrated radioactive substances) is also redundant. As such, immediate nuclear disarmament would be a priority of a Green Government..

PD304 The role for military personnel in defending sensitive establishments would also be reduced by the fact that they would be severely reduced in number..

PD305 A residual role for military personnel would exist in detection and apprehension of criminals attempting to by-pass customs and immigration. Green Party policy on drugs and migration, along with its contribution to a more equitable world society, would diminish this role too. Other duties would include policing fishing quotas, piracy and oceanic environmental regulations..

PD307 Military action must have the mandate of the UK Parliament. To support effective military action, this need be no more than an outline of the campaign but necessary speed of response is no excuse when Parliament can be called at a day's notice..

PD310 ..All members of the Armed Forces will be entitled to the same rights as any civilian employee, including the rights to refuse orders on grounds of conscience and trade union membership..

PD313 An imaginative programme of arms conversion could use many of the skills and resources at present tied up in military industry.. New renewable energy industries, for instance, could be set up in the same area and use the same skills and resources as the existing arms industries e.g. wave power (shipbuilding), wind power (aerospace) and tidal power (power engineering)..

PD402 In the absence of effective international agreements on the elimination of weapons of mass destruction and indiscriminate action, a Green Government would unilaterally dismantle and dispose of its stocks, while continuing to campaign for others to follow suit..

PD501 It is deeply regrettable that the EU has taken the first steps towards militarisation, by the formation of the so-called Rapid Reaction Force. Our primary aim is to reverse this process..

PD511 The current structure of the UN Security Council, with permanent seats for France, the UK, the US, Russia and China, is undemocratic and unworkable due to the right of veto. All permanent seats on the UN Security Council should be abolished, all nations should take a seat in turn, continents should be represented in proportion to their populations, and decisions should be made by a 2/3 majority..

PD513 The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) is a military-oriented body, which imposes conflict cessation rather than encouraging peace building. As such, it is not a sustainable mechanism for maintaining peace in the world. We would take the UK out of NATO unilaterally. We would also end the so-called "special relationship" between the UK and the US..

 

[TriGuN]

https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/

Access to benefits and voting would apply to everyone on British soil (concept of a British National is irrelevant and outdated)

NY202 We view citizenship as a set of responsibilities and rights based on residence in and commitment to a geographical area. It is gained by living in the area ì not granted by government..

NY203 In the long term, the Green Party wishes to see the concept of legal nationality abolished..

NY204 While it remains, British nationality must be based predominantly on residence

NY300 We will work to create a world of global inter-responsibility in which the concept of a 'British national' is irrelevant and outdated..

NY500 Responsibilities and rights of citizenship will include Citizens' Income, personal taxation and the right to participate in the democratic process. The Green Party will therefore base the right to vote and to stand in elections on residence rather than nationality..

NY510 We will replace current British nationality legislation in order to provide a single class of British nationality. All British nationals will have the right of residence in the UK. Such British nationality will automatically include all those currently in a category of British nationality which does not give entry to the UK..

Massive increase in foreign aid with the aim of international wealth redistribution until "the world is more equal"

IP230 If there is to be any chance of resolving the inequitable relations between rich and poor countries and eliminate the exploitation of global resources, the international debt crisis must be tackled. There must be wholesale writing-off and writing-down of the international debts of poor countries..

IP254 British aid should become 0.7 percent of Gross National Product (GNP) within five years and 1.0 percent of GNP within ten years. Emergency aid, aid to dependent territories and debt relief should be an addition to this..

Drastically reduce imprisonment, give prisoners the vote

CJ114 We will introduce the principle of "restorative justice", which while denouncing the crime, deals constructively with both the victim and the offender..

CJ115 Restorative justice recognises the need not only to ensure that the amount and nature of reparation be appropriate to the harm suffered, but also that it is within the capacity of the offender to make it. This means that any shortfall will have to be met by the community..

CJ340 Wholly unacceptable levels of men, women and children are currently imprisoned at great cost to their future rehabilitation, as well as to their families, the taxpayer and society in general. The Green Party is therefore committed to significantly reducing the prison population. To that end, a range of measures will be used, including changes to sentencing policy and practice. Courts will have a duty to reduce use of custodial sentencing in favour of community sentencing..

CJ374 Prisoners will be granted the right to vote. Any decision to deny a prisoner the vote will be taken only by a judge, taking into account the particular circumstances of his/her case..

CJ380 The physical and social standards of prisoners will be improved so that as far as possible the only limitation on the dignity of their lives will be the denial of freedom of movement outside the prison. Prisoners would normally have their own room. They would enjoy extended facilities for communication and association with family and friends including unsupervised visits..

CJ381 .. the only women who should be in custody are those very few that commit serious and violent crimes and who present a threat to the public..

 

[zippy]

When you say "British people" do you mean white British people?

You do realise that British people in general are still a high percentage of London residents, add up all the different British groups for a total of around 76% British.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London

It's only white British that falls below 50% at 44.9% (which is still a long way from "no British people left"), is that what you are referring to?

Just out of curiosity, TriGun, do you feel you have any racist views?

You even need to ask

Edit: I don't live in London. for the record I wouldn't have voted for Khan. I also wouldn't have voted for Goldsmith. Maybe 2nd choice.

 

[tRoN]

/derail

Who would have thought that London would have a 'slam ou for a Mayor.
See not all Muslims are terrorists....

 

[Hamish McPanji]

https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/

Wow! They are wonderful. Their commitment to equality amongst all is honourable.

In addition to that:
They want to scrap Nuclear weapons.
They want to ban landmines and cluster bombs .
They want to restrict arms sales to countries like Saudi Arabia and convert the manufacturing to something actually useful to society instead.
They actually want a definition for terrorism to be defined. The current definition of brown Muslim guy doesn't work for them.
They seek to address the causes of terrorism (injustice, lack of self determination)
They want to reduce discrimination against loads of different groups and provide workers rights.
They want to rehabilitate prisoners rather than just throw them in a cell. And not take the right to vote away from them

And that is not all. There loads more policies that they have, which when taken in their entirety (I.e. cherry picking certain points within their manifesto whilst ignoring the rest under the same policy)

And for a person who likes peace, cannot change their colour, and does not want to change my religion their manifesto is very appealing.

However I do understand how a racist, bigoted, xenophobic warmonger might find it threatening to their existence (not that I really know any of those, but it would be a logical thing)

 

[Dave]

However I do understand how a racist, bigoted, xenophobic warmonger might find it threatening to their existence (not that I really know any of those, but it would be a logical thing)

lol, nothing like sitting on the fence with you then?

 

[Hamish McPanji]

Stupid question. Of course I have. Who hasn't?

Colleagues, land lords, even a friend.

Anyway, the vast majority of them weren't liberal or progressive.. Hardly surprising to anyone who wasn't born yesterday. Do YOU know any muslims Imran?
I assume you do, because you are one, and yet you're acting like you don't know that muslims are generally very conservative.

Nah, you know I keep away from these dodgy immigrant types. You never know what they are thinking....they just act differently when in front of me....like all liberal and progressive. But you don't know what they say behind closed doors

Sorry....it must be rubbing off on me.

I never denied that there is a level if social conservatism amongst Muslims including me. Have actually said it on the US election thread a few days ago where you probably picked it up.

But the BS that you are trying to push that we behave differently when 'whiteys' are around as opposed to when they are alone just have me a good indication of who you are. Does your Muslim friend know about this aspect of your character? You must hide it well.... or maybe when Muslims are around, you behave differently to when they are not?

 

[Xarog]

The satire in this thread is 9000+.

 

[Hamish McPanji]

The satire in this thread is 9000+.

Just ignore it, I do
What do think of the results though?

Why the swing to Conservatives up North? Will Labour recover there

And prospects for Labour in the nationals? Not good in my opinion

 

[Xarog]

Just ignore it, I do

Why would I ignore it? I'm rather enjoying it.

What do think of the results though?

Why the swing to Conservatives up North? Will Labour recover there

And prospects for Labour in the nationals? Not good in my opinion

I haven't been following UK politics lately. About the only conclusion I can draw is that Scotland really didn't like the way the referendum turned out wrt the Labour Party's behaviour.

 

[Hamish McPanji]

It doesn't matter, he has won. Can't wait to see her running naked with that sausage.

As this still happening?

 

[TriGuN]

Wow! They are wonderful. Their commitment to equality amongst all is honourable.

In addition to that:
They want to scrap Nuclear weapons.
They want to ban landmines and cluster bombs .
They want to restrict arms sales to countries like Saudi Arabia and convert the manufacturing to something actually useful to society instead.
They actually want a definition for terrorism to be defined. The current definition of brown Muslim guy doesn't work for them.
They seek to address the causes of terrorism (injustice, lack of self determination)
They want to reduce discrimination against loads of different groups and provide workers rights.
They want to rehabilitate prisoners rather than just throw them in a cell. And not take the right to vote away from them

And that is not all. There loads more policies that they have, which when taken in their entirety (I.e. cherry picking certain points within their manifesto whilst ignoring the rest under the same policy)

And for a person who likes peace, cannot change their colour, and does not want to change my religion their manifesto is very appealing.

However I do understand how a racist, bigoted, xenophobic warmonger might find it threatening to their existence (not that I really know any of those, but it would be a logical thing)

I rest my case. You're politically illiterate. You were happy to defend them without even knowing their completely retarded policies. You didn't even realize that a political parody like this existed in the west, because it's THAT retarded. I can only imagine how foolish you must think whitey is.

And of course you support them, because their hilariously naive pipe dream hippy pacifist policies would be a disaster for the UK and you fully recognize that.

Lots of anti-western muslims support the greens for that reason.
They just want a Swedenesque government in every country in the west, because we all know how that turned out.

I can't really blame them. If an "anarcho communist feminazi party", for example, sprung up in the M/E and I was living there, I'd definitely support them, become a member, send them a percentage of my wage..

I mean, fk anarchists communists and third wave feminists obviously. They should not be allowed to exist in my country, but if they're in a muslim country, well, that's completely different.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...30ee88-0ba6-11e6-bc53-db634ca94a2a_story.html

Swedish Greens jolted by claims of Islamist infiltration

STOCKHOLM — One refused to shake hands with a female journalist. Another compared Israel to Nazi Germany. A third was seen doing hand signs associated with Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood in the background of a live TV broadcast.

The behavior of some Muslim members of Sweden’s Green Party, which is part of a coalition government since 2014, has sparked concerns that the small environmentalist group may have been infiltrated by Islamists.

It also has triggered a wider discussion about whether Sweden has tried so hard to be inclusive and tolerant toward migrants that it’s failed to stand up for its own feminist ideals.

“In our eagerness to embrace a diverse and multicultural society, we have turned a blind eye to undemocratic views,” said Gulan Avci, a Stockholm city councilwoman for the Liberals, a center-right opposition party.

Green Party leaders said Monday there’s no evidence of Islamists influencing party policies, but admitted the party needs a “reset” with greater focus on environmental issues.

The party’s problems started when Housing Minister Mehmet Kaplan, a Green Party member and former leader of a Swedish Muslim youth group, resigned last week after media reports that he had contacts with ultra-nationalists and Islamists in his native Turkey. Though he denied any wrongdoing and the party leadership defended him until the end, he stepped down when a video surfaced of Kaplan comparing Israel’s treatment of Palestinians to how the Nazis persecuted Jews.

Trying to cool things down, Green Party co-leader Asa Romson only made them worse when she went off on a bizarre tangent in a TV interview, describing the Sept. 11 attacks as “accidents.” She later clarified that she condemns the attacks.

But it didn’t end there. New images emerged where Kaplan and other Muslim members of the Green Party were seen holding up four fingers, a hand gesture used by the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. One of them, a Green Party youth leader, walked into the picture during a live broadcast on Swedish television and flashed the sign behind the presenter.

The gesture isn’t illegal in Sweden but many Green Party members questioned whether the brotherhood’s conservative views are compatible with the feminist and gay-friendly platform of the Swedish Greens.

The biggest outcry came after Yasri Khan, a 30-year-old running for a seat on the Green Party’s executive board, refused to shake the hand of a Swedish TV reporter. He said shaking hands with someone from the opposite sex is too “intimate,” and instead put his hand on his heart in a Muslim greeting.

A ferocious debate ensued in Sweden with Khan’s critics calling his behavior insulting to women and his supporters dismissing the criticism as Islamophobia. Even Prime Minister Stefan Lofven weighed in, saying that in Sweden “you shake hands with both women and men.”

Dismayed, Khan withdrew his candidacy for the Green Party executive board and also quit his seats on a regional board and city council. He told The Associated Press he’s keeping his party membership for now, though he questioned whether practicing Muslims still are welcome in the party.

“I think the Green Party needs to work on their inclusive values,” he said. “How do you combine diversity and religion with an ethnocentric and prejudiced idea of gender equality?”

Asked whether he would describe himself as an Islamist, he said he doesn’t even know what the word means.

“If it means a practicing Muslim who is contributing to politics, then I’m an Islamist — or was, since I’m leaving. But if it means a terrorist or against gender equality then I am as far away from an Islamist as you can get,” Khan said.

Like many Muslims, he said he was drawn to the Greens because of their embrace of diversity, human rights and “all kinds of people who stood up for green politics.”

Critics question whether the Greens opened their ranks to members who care more about promoting their religion than the environment.

“People who are close to the Muslim Brotherhood, which is an Islamist party, obviously have a big foothold in the Green Party,” Lars Nicander, a security expert at the Swedish Defense University, told Sweden’s TV4. He compared it to how Soviet agents tried to infiltrate political parties in the West during the Cold War...

Might as well call themselves the Cuck Party at this stage.

 

[TriGuN]

Nah, you know I keep away from these dodgy immigrant types. You never know what they are thinking....they just act differently when in front of me....like all liberal and progressive. But you don't know what they say behind closed doors

Sorry....it must be rubbing off on me.

I never denied that there is a level if social conservatism amongst Muslims including me. Have actually said it on the US election thread a few days ago where you probably picked it up.

But the BS that you are trying to push that we behave differently when 'whiteys' are around as opposed to when they are alone just have me a good indication of who you are. Does your Muslim friend know about this aspect of your character? You must hide it well.... or maybe when Muslims are around, you behave differently to when they are not?

Such a pity.. the revelations of so many muslim politicians in so called left wing parties, organisations and lobby groups in the west being found to have links with islamists, far right ultra nationalist parties in their native countries, and being very hostile to progressive and liberal ideas when they think the cameras aren't on them.

 

[Xarog]

Such a pity.. the revelations of so many muslim politicians in so called left wing parties, organisations and lobby groups in the west being found to have links with islamists, far right ultra nationalist parties in their native countries, and being very hostile to progressive and liberal ideas when they think the cameras aren't on them.

Care to cite evidence to support your assertions?

 

[TriGuN]

Care to cite evidence to support your assertions?

Already did in the previous post. I'm not going to spend all night finding articles on other cases (there are loads), you can find them. I already spent too much time compiling the Greens posts. I'm providing all the evidence in this thread apparently.

Political parties, Human right organisations, Aid organisations, lobby groups, student unions.. All supposedly "left wing", and full of right wing muslims.

 

[Xarog]

Well aren't you a precious little gem. An IDF general has come out and said that there's a distinct feel of 1930s Germany in the Israeli air, and the other stuff is over-hyped at best.

I mean one would think you could at least choose something worth paying attention to in your accusations. I don't think I've ever seen someone anxious about tolerance itself before.