Unsatisfactory, Broadly Speaking

[rpm]

http://www.mybroadband.co.za/nephp/?m=show&id=1980

Another take on Telkom's ADSL Draft Regulations submission...

 

[pupa]

......Also, technology-specific regulations have the potential to discriminate against different operators and give some of them an unfair advantage, Telkom warns.

What a statement from a government protected monopoly using national assets to manipulate the market cost structures and killing all competition by discriminating against ISP's by supplying the same and better services so the ISP's cannot compete as they control the wholesale supply of the market

......will not only disadvantage it but will also handicap the second network operator, SNO Telecommunications. .

New excuse and catch-phrase for the next two years to protect their exploitation of the ZAR consumers? Play on the feelings and nerves of ICASSA and the GVT and confuse the ZAR consumers ..that they "hurt" the SNO. I just hope the SNO have a plan to bypass you Telkom punks so this new ploy would fail

......It says this would amount to "expropriation without compensation" as it would mean Telkom would not be able to recover the cost of its investing in broadband infrastructure. .

16 Billion profit, this is surely a good return on investment. Broadband is now just a drop in the bucket of that share. The normal line rental would cover that cost as it is the same cable, the similar electronic port to connect Analog voice or DSLAM. We are still charged for the analog portion of the line whether you use it or not. The same maintenance will go into that electronics, if not less as it is better quality. What about our paid for infrastructure, the copper cables and the SAT3 cable. Telkom you milked the cow long enough BEAT IT!

......Telkom says that in most countries an installation fee and a monthly service fee is charged for the provision of ADSL, which includes the access portion and the Internet portion provided by ISPs..

Nice wording to confuse any one! here they admit most country's include the (Access portion) + (internet ISP) = one In ZAR we pay (Access) + (Internet ISP) = (2 *10) = (20 times the international norm.) We pay more than Mauritius and Reunion (together); Small Islands with low population density.

Who are they bluffing; Ok I forgot the GVT imbeciles that can easily be BS, convinced, bought or bribed

You TELKOM B@stards, I hope the cartoon haters gets hold of you!

 

[Gladiator]

wow, telkom really know how to whip out the playing cards when they're stuck between a hard place and a rock

 

[antowan]

Telkom says it is inappropriate that Icasa adopt an "uneven and fragmented approach" to broadband services by focusing only on ADSL. It says the authority is ignoring its wireless rivals MTN, Vodacom, Cell C, Sentech and Wireless Business Solutions.

We are dealing with a fixed line service here Telkom. The above is just a stupid thing to say frankly. If Telkom has a problem with the wireless service providers, they can lodge a complaint.

Also, technology-specific regulations have the potential to discriminate against different operators and give some of them an unfair advantage, Telkom warns.

Which operators in the fixed line business? The SNO? So if all fixed line operators are equal under these regulations, what is the problem?

The fixed-line operator says the regulations, if promulgated, will not only disadvantage it but will also handicap the second network operator, SNO Telecommunications.

How? Would they now also not be able to extort record amounts of money for as little service as possible should this go through?

Telkom also notes that Icasa is already regulating ADSL prices through the same price control regulations that Icasa uses to keep the prices of other products in check. The company says it filed tariffs in terms of these regulations on July 21 and these were approved by Icasa on September 6. Not only has the structure of its ADSL charges been approved by Icasa, but also the tariffs. "The draft [ADSL] regulations are clearly in conflict with the price control regulations, which render them impossible to apply," Telkom says in its submission.

Well then, I guess ICASA will have to sort out these conflicts then within these regulations.

The price control regulations are set for a fixed period and are not meant to be amended before July 2007. Premature amendments will be inappropriate and will create regulatory uncertainty, Telkom warns.

Uncertainty? For whom? If something is unfair, it is unfair. If it is unjust, it is unjust. What Telkom is saying is "Don't change the maximum sentence for murder while a murderer is committing a murder, because it will create uncertainty in the murderer's mind as to what punishment he might get."

The prescriptive nature of the regulations will also make the broadband offerings provided by network operators and service providers bland, as it will not leave much scope for them to differentiate between their products.

Bull! This just gives you a bottom end and nothing stops you from outdoing yourself with even better services.

The detailed nature of Icasa's proposals are also worrying Telkom. It says it is inappropriate for the authority to set out in such "narrow detail" how service providers should operate.

Agreed. But this can be fixed.

 

[daysleeper]

People that don't follow this site, won't be expecting a price decrease, ie telkom not charging for dsl rental.

what service actually comes down in cost these days with inflation and all?

 

[jamieb]

Further pressure must be applied!

We all know that Telkom's statements are complete hogwash. They are simply trying to protect their supernormal profits.
Now, this is the typical pattern that Telkom observes. The moment measures are about to be taken to reform the industry, it places enormous pressure on ICASA/DOC, etc. and attempts to influence popular opinion. We definitely need to counter this statement in some way or another. It is absolutely critical. Can MyAdsl or Antitrust issue a press statement?

Yes, another example of Telkom's unethical monopolistic behaviour:

"The South Africa bandwidth price on SAT-3 is 5,5 times that of Réunion and more than twice as expensive as Mauritius.

Price listings on Telkom’s website show that the monthly access cost of one megabit per second (mbps) of bandwidth capacity on the SAT-3/WASC/SAFE cables will cost R73 133.

A similar one mbps monthly bandwidth package in Mauritius will cost the equivalent of R36 208, while in Réunion, which is regulated by the French telecommunications authority, it costs the equivalent of R11 354."

Need one say any more? Telkom is THE most Unproudly South African company in this country and is THE single largest barrier to foreign investment. They are a national disgrace and an embarassment - and they are supported by our Government. Go figure.

----

 

[antowan]

Agreed. I honestly am convinced that Telkom should be split up into several competing little telcos. Simply split it and flog off the tiny telcos to the highest bidders. Make laws that prevent them from colluding and working together. COMPETE YOU BUGGERS!!!!!

 

[jamieb]

Comments

Telkom has slammed draft regulations on broadband Internet access, drawn up late last year by the Independent Communications Authority of SA (Icasa), as inappropriate and beyond the regulator's powers.

The draft regulations are not beyond the regulator's power. It is you, Telkom, who feel that you have the right to dictate the rules of the game in the telecommunications industry. Now, you must accept that the fact that the public are sick and tired of your aggressive tactics to preserve the unacceptable status quo. You are a company, not a government. You are mean't to serve the people. If the people do like the way you are behaving, the rules will be changed. Overall popular opinion in South Africa, is that you are responsible for holding up the entire country with your shortsighted vision, extreme pricing and lack of service delivery. We have produced reams of hard evidence supporting this, however, you continue to ignore our cries and use backhanded tactics to delay the much needed structural reform in the industry.

Also, technology-specific regulations have the potential to discriminate against different operators and give some of them an unfair advantage, Telkom warns.

Isn't it ironic that you would complain of an "unfair advantage". You have had an extremely unfair advantage in the industry for over ten years now. In fact, you have had an advantage that companies around the world could only dream of. You're a company that operates in a market where there has been legislation in place to prevent competitors from competing. Now, excuse me, if this isn't unfair competition, then we all going completely mad.

The fixed-line operator says the regulations, if promulgated, will not only disadvantage it but will also handicap the second network operator, SNO Telecommunications.

How nice of you to express concern for the SNO's livelyhood. We all know that you could'nt really give a hoot about the SNO. I am sure the SNO is capable of expressing its own views.

Telkom also notes that Icasa is already regulating ADSL prices through the same price control regulations that Icasa uses to keep the prices of other products in check.

Its blantly obvious that the current mechanism of controlling ADSL prices in South Africa is broken. Our ADSL is over five times more expensive than comparable countries. The result of this is that our entire economy is held to randsom. The ADSL prices in South Africa need to be brought down to international norms. In an ideal world, we would all like the ADSL pricing to be determined by the market, however the current structure of the industry does not allow for it.

Now, if you were a progressive company, you might think that we ought to go even a step further and lead the world in implementation of new technology and affordable access. Your tune is always about limitations, high costs, etc. We do not expect that to change.

"The draft [ADSL] regulations are clearly in conflict with the price control regulations, which render them impossible to apply," Telkom says in its submission.

They are only in conflict in so far as your current supernormal profits cannot be preserved. If they are in conflict, you will need to provide us with concrete evidence. You refuse to even provide the costing of the SAT-3 cable to your largest shareholder - the SA Government. Now, Telkom, must we simply take your word for it when you have blatantly raped our country for ten years now?

The price control regulations are set for a fixed period and are not meant to be amended before July 2007. Premature amendments will be inappropriate and will create regulatory uncertainty,

Yet another delay tactic. We are already massively behind the rest of the world in terms of Internet penetration. If we wait yet another year, then we were will we be then??? Our country is in the industrial age, when others have moved onto the information age. Now, these delaying tactics are only serving to secure our position as a third world country for at least another century. Get real Telkom!! It is absolute economic imperative that the changes take place now.

The prescriptive nature of the regulations will also make the broadband offerings provided by network operators and service providers bland, as it will not leave much scope for them to differentiate between their products.

Hogwash! There is plenty of scope for differentiation.The regulations specify the baseline for the service. Frankly, the consumers are less concerned about differentiation at this point and more about affordable access.

It says it is inappropriate for the authority to set out in such "narrow detail" how service providers should operate..

Perhaps, but is a sign that we no longer trust you and so we must impose stiff restrictions to prevent you from executing your unethical business practices.

 

[dominic]

windfall tax for sasol

now telkom?

 

[allyoucaneat]

... The regulations are designed to reduce the cost of Telkom's high-speed asymmetric digital subscriber line (ADSL) products, which are capable of carrying voice, video and data. In a rare show of unity, Telkom and Internet service providers (ISPs) have roundly criticised Icasa's proposed regulations.

In a written submission to Icasa, Telkom says Icasa's proposals are ultra vires (beyond its powers) and inapplicable. In turn, the ISP Association (Ispa), which represents most of SA's ISPs, agrees that the draft regulations are poor. They are "extremely broken, lacking in both technical and financial practicality", Ispa joint chairman Greg Massel told the FM in December. ...

I'm convinced now that Greg Massel (the co-chair of Ispa) is not working for the good of ISPs or Ispa, but have some agenda going. Thankfully it is now in the open.

 

[kaspaas]

The more I think about it, the more I believe that SNOT has a point:

The wholesale rates of ADSL is the problem, not the retail side of things.

It is on the wholesale side where Telkom has a de facto monopoly.

The same applies for the wholesale provision of bandwidth to iBurst, Vodacom MTN etc.

Personally I believe things can just become better if TelkomSA, the retail Internet side of Telkom, is closed down. Or said in another way: Telkom is permitted to trade in the wholesale side of internet connectivity only. Ditto for SNOT.

That would kill the argument of "selectivity". Telkom won't compete anymore via TelkomSA.net with iBurst, Vodacom or MTN.

 

[krycor]

It says it is inappropriate for the authority to set out in such "narrow detail" how service providers should operate..

This is due the massive expoitation of current open ended/broadly defined details that existed. ie Telkom has caused its own downfall.

 

[pimal3]

I think the government should pay Telkom $85 million for its investment in the SAT3 cable (even though it was essentially paid for with our tax money) and then declare the cable a national asset. The government should then sell access to the cable in turn to whoever wishes to have access to it. The government could charge very reasonable rates and still make money off it and consumers will gain.

 

[Telkomhater]

In essence, the regulations demand that fixed-line operators:

Scrap broadband line rentals;

Allow a minimum monthly bandwidth cap of 10 GB;

Allow customers to change the terms and conditions of existing contracts;

Provide a service within 14 days, in all circumstances; and

Guarantee minimum throughput speeds.

That is exactly what I as a customer want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RVFmal]

I think the government should pay Telkom $85 million for its investment in the SAT3 cable (even though it was essentially paid for with our tax money) and then declare the cable a national asset.

Erm, no offence, but that is the most inane statement that I have come across on this site (aside from those spewed forth by the Telkom lovers).

Why pray tell should Goverment use R 512 million of our taxes when our taxes paid for the cable in the first place? Given the fact that we paid for it, it belongs to us (unless Telkom paid the Govermnet for it in a transaction that we do not know about).

They should just declare it a national asset and take control of it from Telkom. Granted one has to be careful in making rash statements like this as we do not want to end up in a position where the Gvernment can just start taking assets from companies for their benefit, but this is a valid case and if handled correctly through the right channels can only benefit the consumers (should Government decide not to jump on the BW and continue where Telkom left off).

 

[Highflyer_GP]

government hit a f@ck up with the cable a long time ago, and finds its between a rock and a hard place. telkom says one thing, everybody else disagrees.

basically all infrastructure like the sat3 cable and all exchanges which were paid for by taxpayers should have been nationalised BEFORE the privatisation of telkom. we wouldn't be sitting in the mess we now find ourselves in. this would have made things like LLU alot less complicated and without the constant legal and maintenance threats from these retards.

PS: am i allowed to call them retards or would that be unconstitutional

 

[pimal3]

It is exactly what I mean. It is very very dangerous to nationalise without compensation (to prevent another Zimbabwe) even though the cable was originally paid for by our tax money. A mistake was made originally by NOT excluding the cable when Telkom was privatised. However, international access to the internet is at an impasse now and the only way to resolve this is by paying the Beast again and then throw it open. Obviously some maintenance on the cable need to be done periodically and peering arrangements with international hosts need to be paid for. This would still be at an extremely low cost and the government can still turn a nice profit by reselling bandwidth to ISP's, SNO and even Telkom (how about R50,000 per gig per second for Telkom and R10,000 per gig per second for others) and still we can experience affordable connectivity.

LLU on the other hand is a little bit more problematical, but it can be overcome by simple deregulation and letting the market take the oppurtunity.

Inane? I don't think so!

 

[CodeMaster]

@allyoucaneat,
Just out of curiousity, does AYCE belong to Ispa? Some of your comments make me think not

 

[bwana]

Just a thought but if the SAT3/SAFE cables were in place before the privatization of Telkom wouldnt the government be in possession of all the financial data and contracts telkom entered into wrt the cables? Could we not petition them - perhaps under the Promotion of Access to Information Act - for the info?

 

[allyoucaneat]

Somebody is blowing smoke rings

@allyoucaneat,
Just out of curiousity, does AYCE belong to Ispa? Some of your comments make me think not

DOTCO is a paid up member of Ispa. See: http://www.ispa.org.za/about/memberlist.shtml (the list does not show whether members are paid up or not)

Ispa and in particular Greg Massel does not speak or represent DOTCO.

Here is the Ispa contitition:
http://www.ispa.org.za/about/constitution.shtml

4. Mission
The ISPA's mission is to provide a non-profit forum in which Internet access providers can address issues of common interest and interface with industry stakeholders so that end- users receive world-class service and industry participants earn a fair return on their investments.

ADSL in South Africa is not a world class service. According to Dr Tim Kelly (http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=29175&highlight=kelly) South Africa is th e2nd last country in the world.

As I see it, the new Icasa regulations is trying to move us up in the world ADSL rankings.

In essence, the regulations demand that fixed-line operators:
Scrap broadband line rentals;
Allow a minimum monthly bandwidth cap of 10 GB;
Allow customers to change the terms and conditions of existing contracts;
Provide a service within 14 days, in all circumstances; and
Guarantee minimum throughput speeds.

So, it is very sad that Ispa fails so badly in it's mission with the following:

...the ISP Association (Ispa), which represents most of SA's ISPs, agrees that the draft regulations are poor. They are "extremely broken, lacking in both technical and financial practicality", Ispa joint chairman Greg Massel told the FM in December.