UP closes campus after student clashes

[ToxicBunny]

This is an eye opener for me. As I chat with people here it is slowly dawning on me that they really think they are the oppressed. Certainly something that I should take into in the future.

Would you mind pointing out who you think thinks they're opressed?

Most of us are decrying the BS and racism being thrown around is if its nothing....

 

[Humberto]

These protests aren't about Afrikaans, they're about the EFFSC wanting to break the higher education system (admitted to in so many words by their senior leadership) as part of an agenda of radical transformation. The universities are bleeding and will certainly be weakened when this is all over.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

If I am ask, are you white? And if you are, would you mind shedding more light on why you think this is the case?

I am. Afrikaans, too.

From what I can figure out the quote was originally about the howls of outrage from Evangelical Christians in the US after same-sex marriage got legalised. They started whining about how Christians are being oppressed, while in reality their brand of Christianity just wasn't afforded the societal privilege they're used to etc.

But I find it applies to basically any situation where you've got historically privileged groups who are slowly losing that privilege. They're so used to the status quo that it elicits this persecution complex when things change.

 

[Jola]

Most of us are decrying the BS and racism being thrown around is if its nothing....

The black racists will break this country and the ANC are actively encouraging it.

Maybe they should read the Freedom Charter again, the old ANC is gone.

 

[supersunbird]

I actually got it slightly wrong. It's actually "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." Same sentiment, though.

Is equality taking something away? What about raising everyone to be equal?

Equal education, do we take away all the good things at former model C schools so that they are like townships schools or do we raise the townships schools to former model C schools level? In both instances the end results are equality, but which one is the better?

 

[Kilgore_Trout_Redux]

I am. Afrikaans, too.

From what I can figure out the quote was originally about the howls of outrage from Evangelical Christians in the US after same-sex marriage got legalised. They started whining about how Christians are being oppressed, while in reality their brand of Christianity just wasn't afforded the societal privilege they're used to etc.

But I find it applies to basically any situation where you've got historically privileged groups who are slowly losing that privilege. They're so used to the status quo that it elicits this persecution complex when things change.

So tell me OrbitalDawn and Ngwe24. How does disrupting universities until they are forced to shut down stop inequality.

 

[ngwe23]

Your problem is that you think you need to drag the "priviledged" down to get to their level. Destroy, burn, attack.

You should be looking to elevate yourselves. Instead all you do is go on about entitlement and either destroy or squeal in delight on the sidelines like a bunch of filthy pigs while your comrades destroy everything of value around them.

I think you are conflating issues. The "Destroy, burn, attack" that you talk about is the symptom and not the problem. The core issue is that black people are still second class citizen and white have largely retained if not further entranced their advantage. This is just the result of the agitation from those who find themselves at the wrong end of the socio-economic scale.

 

[DA-LION-619]

Is equality taking something away? What about raising everyone to be equal?

Equal education, do we take away all the good things at former model C schools so that they are like townships schools or do we raise the townships schools to former model C schools level? In both instances the end results are equality, but which one is the better?

What good things were taken away at former model C schools?

 

[Pitbull]

Afrikaans enjoys some special flower status in SA. As we move towards it being the same as 9 other official languages, excluding English, some people will scream blue murder.

Also, earlier in the thread I saw a photo set up to compare UP yesterday to the death of Hector Peterson, I think that the levels of casualty show the difference. Also, one is a protest of different groups of students, the other was students vs police.

Exactly.

Saw a pretty interesting quote that explains a lot of this.

"To the privileged, equality feels like oppression."

Not at all. I am proud of being Afrikaans. I'm proud of my heritage and where we came from. I personally am sick of having to apologise. Enough is enough. We're being told they have been playing nice, been nice to us for way too long. How? I will never back down for my language and you're welcome to think what you want. To some of us, our history and who we are is just more important to your view of me and others like me. Bring it, about time this is settled. You hate me for being white and Afrikaans... Do something about it or stfu.

 

[Jola]

What good things were taken away at former model C schools?

Smaller class sizes for starters.

The teachers then leave for private schools. and gradual introduction of unproductive unionized teachers.

 

[Pitbull]

I actually got it slightly wrong. It's actually "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." Same sentiment, though.

And so what? I'm privileged because of hard work. If they feel they are entitled to it they can either work hard too or come and take mine. The second will not be so easy. Why should I feel guilty for all my hard work and the hard work of my parents? Fark it.

 

[ngwe23]

Would you mind pointing out who you think thinks they're opressed?

Most of us are decrying the BS and racism being thrown around is if its nothing....

Simply because blacks are at the bottom end scale in every measurable metric. Employment, health, income etc. There is a racial imbalance in our country. Do you dispute that?

 

[supersunbird]

What good things were taken away at former model C schools?

Your comprehension was taken away, I am using a theoretical example to make a point, that there are two paths to equality.

 

[Pitbull]

Simply because blacks are at the bottom end scale in every measurable metric. Employment, health, income etc. There is a racial imbalance in our country. Do you dispute that?

Because you want to be there. Want to be at the top end of the scale? Vote for the people that will look after you interests not their own. You dig this hole, you get out of it.

 

[MickeyD]

Simply because blacks are at the bottom end scale in every measurable metric. Employment, health, income etc. There is a racial imbalance in our country. Do you dispute that?

You obviously did not watch or listen to SONA and all the good stories that the ruling party told us.

 

[konfab]

What good things were taken away at former model C schools?

A syllabus that challenges the mind...

The current syllabus is catered for unionised teachers/thugs that don't give a hoot about the education of their pupils.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I think you are conflating issues. The "Destroy, burn, attack" that you talk about is the symptom and not the problem. The core issue is that black people are still second class citizen and white have largely retained if not further entranced their advantage. This is just the result of the agitation from those who find themselves at the wrong end of the socio-economic scale.

Sorry, but that is a huge lumping pile of excrement.

Black people are not second class citizens, they are citizens....
Whites "advantage" has been eroding year on year since the birth of democracy. Yes there are still more whites in senior management positions but that is not something you can change over night. There are more black land owners than white, the value of black owned land is larger than the value of white owned land. If you feel like fighting me on those points, please go straight to StasSA as that data is based off of theirs.

http://www.fin24.com/Economy/kill-d...isation-slogans-with-facts-economist-20160222

 

[Kilgore_Trout_Redux]

I think you are conflating issues. The "Destroy, burn, attack" that you talk about is the symptom and not the problem. The core issue is that black people are still second class citizen and white have largely retained if not further entranced their advantage. This is just the result of the agitation from those who find themselves at the wrong end of the socio-economic scale.

We have been over this. Black people are in the majority and this is a democracy. You have had full political power to elect the party with your best interests at heart and yet you vote for the ANC. If you think you are being oppressed then maybe you should point fingers at the black people you put in charge instead of the white people who have been out of power for 20 years.

Of course that would mean holding yourselves accountable for your own actions and decisions and that is just asking too much.

You are being manipulated by the ANC and EFF into attacking the wrong people and are too f**king stupid to see it.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Simply because blacks are at the bottom end scale in every measurable metric. Employment, health, income etc. There is a racial imbalance in our country. Do you dispute that?

Yes, because it bullshyte of the highest order...

Yes there are more blacks in unemployment than whites, but there are more blacks.

Of course the numbers don't match national demographics but to come up with blanket statements like you have in the quoted post is just crap and needs to be put down for the nonsense that it is.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Is equality taking something away? What about raising everyone to be equal?

In terms of medium of instruction at universities that simply isn't possible, taking resources, logistics and practical considerations into account.

Equal education, do we take away all the good things at former model C schools so that they are like townships schools or do we raise the townships schools to former model C schools level? In both instances the end results are equality, but which one is the better?

Different issue, but very important, yeah.

Interestingly, this morning a parent phoned in to 702 and said many of the schools in Gauteng, specifically in majority black areas still only offered 2 languages - English and Afrikaans. So no home language tuition.

There's a larger issue of institutional support at play here, I think. If these are public schools then the government is responsible for supporting mother tongue educational development.

Not at all. I am proud of being Afrikaans. I'm proud of my heritage and where we came from. I personally am sick of having to apologise. Enough is enough. We're being told they have been playing nice, been nice to us for way too long. How? I will never back down for my language and you're welcome to think what you want. To some of us, our history and who we are is just more important to your view of me and others like me. Bring it, about time this is settled. You hate me for being white and Afrikaans... Do something about it or stfu.

Persecution complex on display...

And so what? I'm privileged because of hard work. If they feel they are entitled to it they can either work hard too or come and take mine. The second will not be so easy. Why should I feel guilty for all my hard work and the hard work of my parents? Fark it.

Because hard work isn't the only thing that resulted in your success. Who said you should feel guilty? It's good that you achieved success. Just empathise with the generations that were screwed out of any realistic chance of success.

Because of our history, others can 'work hard' their entire lives and never achieve much.