US Election 2020

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konfab

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BS, if the people follow his social distancing guidance it's impossible for them to work.

From your dear Orange Leader himself.

And Trump is wrong on this.

If the people running these businesses get their employees to wear masks and only allow clients that wear masks to enter, there is less risk of catching the kung flu than if you go to a shopping centre that is filled with 100 other people who might not be wearing a mask.

Now is the time for innovation, and businesses are going to have to innovate to deal with this problem.
 
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PA blue, WI blue, MI blue and Florida a tossup.

The more interesting case is Arizona which has been a strongly Republican state for a while now, but a Democrat won the Senate race last year and there's another Senate race this year and the Democrat is way ahead. Biden could win based off the Democrat's advantage...
 

konfab

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As an aside - Quick snap from Google Maps of where I lived in the township in Cala (the red mark). I have very fond memories of waking up to the sounds of the pig from across the street being slaughtered for the feast for their daughters wedding. They had good Umqombothi though.
Fond memories or PTSD? :p
 

cerebus

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I have been working since I was 14. I had to buy myself and siblings our own clothing and school supplies. Worked two jobs to get out of debt from carrying my family. I have supported my family for two decades. I raised a younger family member from my early twenties. I have had plenty hardship. Now, things are pretty rosy. But, the only reason the financial burden has lessened if because dependents have died and I have through god knows what managed to claw about all of it.

Yeah when I came to SA we were very poor. There were often months when I didn't know how we would make it and we sold things to feed the children, but we did get through that time.

Through all that hardship, I cannot imagine going without any income for weeks and weeks. It makes complete sense to force them into food queues and let them face landlords who are going to evict them when all this ends.

The pandemic cares nothing for what you can imagine. It's a global crisis that shuts down economies regardless of whether you are willing to work or not. If people try to carry on working because they're willing to endanger themselves, it just kills more and grinds society to a complete standstill anyway.

But YoU WaNT peopLE to DIE if YOU want to LIFt the LocKdoWN!@$$

Stellar critical thinking in this thread.

You're the only one making that statement, so it sounds like a strawman to me. You might not want people to die, but the reality is that they will die if you reopen prematurely, and the economic gridlock will be worse as a result.

If you really want to see how to handle this crisis, you should study how other countries have successfully managed it, and compare their response to the US. Germany is on the verge of reopening because of Angela Merkel's expertise and leadership. South Korea had its first case on the same day as the US and currently has 240 deaths.

Practically everything Trump did exacerbated the crisis. It's at the point now where they're facing either an indefinite lockdown, or just letting it run its course naturally and hope that the economy will recover if we are willing to pay the price of all the lives that will invariably be lost. If you think we're better off to just reopen and let the chips lie, well... I think it's a big mistake seeing that all the economists believe the economy will be worse off by reopening too soon, plus you'll lose more lives in the bargain.
 

Emjay

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I would love for those who are so sure in their opinions to answer these questions:

1. How long does this go on?
2. How long do you expect Governments who are going broke to carry the needs of entire populations?
3. Do you realize that the only way through is with a vaccine or to let this run rampant through the population. The curve only stays flat while we are in lock down.
4. Come tell me when your dependents are hungry and not been taken care of that you think the lock down concept is still a good idea.
 

cerebus

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The more interesting case is Arizona which has been a strongly Republican state for a while now, but a Democrat won the Senate race last year and there's another Senate race this year and the Democrat is way ahead. Biden could win based off the Democrat's advantage...

I think the polls don't tell a full picture of just how badly positioned Trump is this year. Here's Trump's favourite Rasmussen showing him with 44% strongly disapproving vs only 31% strongly approving - a number that hasn't budged much since 2017. This in the middle of a crisis that should have improved his poll numbers - compare against Angela Merkel for instance.

Most people just don't like Trump very much, and they don't trust him. This bore out in the 2018 congressional race which was a resounding rebuke of Trumpism, and in all the election results since then.
 

Emjay

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You're the only one making that statement, so it sounds like a strawman to me.

The Netherlands have locked down and explicitly stated yesterday, or the day before, that the economy is not as important as peoples lives.

Contrast that with Governors who think that people should be sacrificed for the economy.
 

cerebus

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Contrast that with Governors who think that people should be sacrificed for the economy.

That is not the same as your statement.

But YoU WaNT peopLE to DIE if YOU want to LIFt the LocKdoWN!@$$

Nobody thinks anyone wants people to die. But governors have literally said that people should be sacrificed for the economy. I mean, those were their actual words.
 

buka001

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I would love for those who are so sure in their opinions to answer these questions:

1. How long does this go on?
2. How long do you expect Governments who are going broke to carry the needs of entire populations?
3. Do you realize that the only way through is with a vaccine or to let this run rampant through the population. The curve only stays flat while we are in lock down.
4. Come tell me when your dependents are hungry and not been taken care of that you think the lock down concept is still a good idea.
Follow the German model, or New Zealand.

Merkel did an excellent interview about a week back explaining how the unlocking would go and on what basis.

Do the unlocking in stages, based on risk and mitigation (what can the business do to do social distancing etc)

America is one of the last places I can think of that should be worrying about people starving. They could delay the Zumwalt defence programme by a year and free up billions.

They were able to free up defence funds to build a wall ...

I find it mind boggling that the biggest noise of the lockdowns comes from the country that is greatest placed to provide for people under the lockdown, who would need it.

Where are these protests in Canada? Netherlands? UK?
 

Emjay

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Follow the German model, or New Zealand.

Merkel did an excellent interview about a week back explaining how the unlocking would go and on what basis.

Do the unlocking in stages, based on risk and mitigation (what can the business do to do social distancing etc)

America is one of the last places I can think of that should be worrying about people starving. They could delay the Zumwalt defence programme by a year and free up billions.

They were able to free up defence funds to build a wall ...

I find it mind boggling that the biggest noise of the lockdowns comes from the country that is greatest placed to provide for people under the lockdown, who would need it.

Where are these protests in Canada? Netherlands? UK?

Ok, so what Trump is doing is good then?

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump gave governors a road map Thursday for recovering from the economic pain of the coronavirus pandemic, laying out “a phased and deliberate approach” to restoring normal activity in places that have strong testing and are seeing a decrease in COVID-19 cases.

“We’re starting our life again,” Trump said during his daily press briefing. “We’re starting rejuvenation of our economy again.”

He added, “This is a gradual process.”

 

buka001

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Ok, so what Trump is doing is good then?




Yes, that is the correct approach.

It is contingent on the Infection factor. See Merkels speech on the subject, it was very informative.

Trump just needs to stick to the same message now.

One day it is LIBERATE. the next it is a sound, science based approach. He needs to keep it clear and unconflicted.
 

greg0205

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The more interesting case is Arizona which has been a strongly Republican state for a while now, but a Democrat won the Senate race last year and there's another Senate race this year and the Democrat is way ahead. Biden could win based off the Democrat's advantage...

I was going to add AZ as an edit.

Yup. Hell, Meghan McCain just said she'd be voting for Joe.

AZ is uphill for Republicans.

Also, I'm watching that Senate race... I think Mark Kelly is a fantastic candidate and I think he just might have Martha McSally's number.
 

w1z4rd

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Yup. Hell, Meghan McCain just said she'd be voting for Joe.
Oh God...

Worst endorsement ever.

Have you ever watched her on the show she speaks at... oh never mind. I get it, you dont watch videos...

Incase you change your mind.

 
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