US Election 2020

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Sl8er said:
What about:

How many people did Roger kill?
How many people did Bill and Killary kill?
:D
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I dunno, but Donald Trump's AG, William Barr has watched all the tapes and says Epstein killed himself.

Who could Barr be protecting, if you think Epstein was murdered?
 
nyti.ms

Opinion | Bernie Sanders Is Making a Big Mistake (Published 2020)

It has to do with respect.
nyti.ms nyti.ms

Now, though, Sanders has evidently decided that progressives will no longer accept impurities — or even much tactical vagueness. He, along with Elizabeth Warren, has embraced policies that are popular on the left and nowhere else: a ban on fracking; the decriminalization of border crossings; the provision of federal health benefits to undocumented immigrants; the elimination of private health insurance.

For many progressives, each of these issues has become a moral litmus test. Any restriction of immigration is considered a denial of human rights. Any compromise on guns or health care is an acceptance of preventable deaths.

And I understand the progressive arguments on these issues. But turning every compromise into an existential moral failing is not a smart way to practice politics. It comforts the persuaded while alienating the persuadable.
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I've never understood why liberals think that illegal immigration is okay.

If you want to immigrate to the USA, fill out the forms and pay your fees like the rest of the people.

I just don't get it. The country has immigration laws for a reason - follow them! The laws are there to balance the interests of immigrants and citizens. Just legally immigrate.

If you allow mass unchecked immigration to any part of the world, those parts will soon be under such strain that their public utilities will virtually collapse over night. This is not a good idea!
 
Pegasus said:
Did he mention what his plan is in the event that the billionaires take their money offshore?
Or who he will be taxing once there are no billionaires left?
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Money printing baby! Do they even need tax payers anymore.....
 
Chris_the_Brit said:
nyti.ms

Opinion | Bernie Sanders Is Making a Big Mistake (Published 2020)

It has to do with respect.
nyti.ms nyti.ms
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Bernie is preaching Democratic socialism ala Nordic model, apparently not the Marxist version.

His supporters who have been taught the Marxist version at colleges for decades seem to think that they are the same same thing.
With the elimination of debt, free healthcare, hatred of billionaires and all forms of Successful people, no need for personal responsibility etc. etc. that Bernie preaches. one can't blame them.

Then if I look at AOC and her progressive squad's agenda (Bernies biggest supporters and he endorses them), and compare that to the Nordic model, I get confused.

So I expect much confusion if Bernie wins.
 
Pegasus said:
Bernie is preaching Democratic socialism ala Nordic model, apparently not the Marxist version.

His supporters who have been taught the Marxist version at colleges for decades seem to think that they are the same same thing.
With the elimination of debt, free healthcare, hatred of billionaires and all forms of Successful people, no need for personal responsibility etc. etc. that Bernie preaches. one can't blame them.

Then if I look at AOC and her progressive squad's agenda (Bernies biggest supporters and he endorses them), and compare that to the Nordic model, I get confused.

So I expect much confusion if Bernie wins.
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Do not fear, thats what the gulags are for, they will re-educate you into correct think
 
Ancalagon said:
I've never understood why liberals think that illegal immigration is okay.

If you want to immigrate to the USA, fill out the forms and pay your fees like the rest of the people.

I just don't get it. The country has immigration laws for a reason - follow them! The laws are there to balance the interests of immigrants and citizens. Just legally immigrate.

If you allow mass unchecked immigration to any part of the world, those parts will soon be under such strain that their public utilities will virtually collapse over night. This is not a good idea!
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You can have three positions on this.

If you have a welfare state and all the central planning goodness in it, then you have to realise that you have to control the number of people coming in. If you don't do it, your central planning fails, as it has done in the UK where there are now school and housing shortages.
You can not have a welfare state, and just have the government protect basic rights. Then allow the market to manage everything. Only people who get stuff are people who work for it, under this model, you can have completely open borders. Citizenship for voting should be relatively easy to get after a number of years.
The last position is that you have to be comfortable in providing a welfare state for people who are citizens, and you allow anyone to come to your country on the provision that they don't get the welfare state and have to look after themselves.
 
Ancalagon said:
I've never understood why liberals think that illegal immigration is okay.

If you want to immigrate to the USA, fill out the forms and pay your fees like the rest of the people.

I just don't get it. The country has immigration laws for a reason - follow them! The laws are there to balance the interests of immigrants and citizens. Just legally immigrate.

If you allow mass unchecked immigration to any part of the world, those parts will soon be under such strain that their public utilities will virtually collapse over night. This is not a good idea!
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Immigrants are a good vote source for the Dems -- look at California. Will never be Republican again due to immigration. Also purely due to immigration, Texas is slowly turning blue as well, which will end any chance of Republicans ever being elected again. USA is precariously close to being a one-party state in the not too distant future - at least in terms of the presidency.

Pegasus said:
CNN hasn't fact checked this yet, but Trump has retweeted somebodies footage of his India trip.
Looks like fun.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1231345462793441280

https://twitter.com/x/status/1231326273894526976
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I suspect many Indians like Trump. They voted in large numbers for the Hindu nationalist, Modi, after all.
 
konfab said:
You can have three positions on this.

If you have a welfare state and all the central planning goodness in it, then you have to realise that you have to control the number of people coming in. If you don't do it, your central planning fails, as it has done in the UK where there are now school and housing shortages.
You can not have a welfare state, and just have the government protect basic rights. Then allow the market to manage everything. Only people who get stuff are people who work for it, under this model, you can have completely open borders. Citizenship for voting should be relatively easy to get after a number of years.
The last position is that you have to be comfortable in providing a welfare state for people who are citizens, and you allow anyone to come to your country on the provision that they don't get the welfare state and have to look after themselves.
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Well, I see it as a lot more than three. In any case, your second position is basically anarchy, since there is no government to protect the interests of the people that live in that place. At the moment, the US government protects the interests of its citizens, but it requires taxes to do so.

Also, the USA doesn't really have a welfare state. I mean, it has some social programs, but not nearly as many as Europe does. Completely different model. What people want in the states is not the welfare state but economic opportunity.
 
Chris_the_Brit said:
Immigrants are a good vote source for the Dems -- look at California. Will never be Republican again due to immigration. Also purely due to immigration, Texas is slowly turning blue as well, which will end any chance of Republicans ever being elected again. USA is precariously close to being a one-party state in the not too distant future - at least in terms of the presidency.



I suspect many Indians like Trump. They voted in large numbers for the Hindu nationalist, Modi, after all.
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I've always thought it was interesting that Democrats are pro-immigration, and immigrants tend to vote Democrat. Republicans are anti-abortion, because the people who are born to citizens of the country have a higher chance of being Republican.

In other words, anti-abortion laws increase the birthrate. A higher birthrate means more of your population "stays" local.

If your local population has a high birthrate and you have high immigration, you will swing to the Dems pretty quickly. This is not to say that Republicans are against abortion for this reason, but it dovetails neatly with their interests.
 
Bernie Sanders may have just lost Florida to President Trump

The campaign to re-elect President Trump is going to sleep a little easier tonight.

Sen. Bernie Sanders, who has cemented his position as the 2020 Democratic primary front-runner, is still defending Fidel Castro, claiming as recently as this weekend that the late communist tyrant was not all that bad. After all, the Vermont senator explained during a Sunday appearance on CBS’s 60 Minutes, the murderous Castro regime had literacy programs.

And just like that, Sanders has made winning Florida and its 29 electoral votes a whole lot more difficult for the Democratic Party. Anyone who knows anything about Florida politics knows you never, ever defend the regime responsible for why there are so many Cubans in the Sunshine State in the first place. Yet, here is Bernie Sanders, the man with the clearest path to the Democratic nomination, doing exactly that.

The most damaging moment from Sanders’s appearance on 60 Minutes comes when his interviewer, CNN’s Anderson Cooper, brings up the senator’s past praise for Castro. CBS segues into this portion of the interview by playing archival footage of the senator parroting Cuban propaganda. Sanders can be seen and heard in these old tapes arguing that Castro was welcomed and defended by the Cuban people because “he educated their kids, gave them health care, totally transformed the society, you know.”

Fast-forward to the present, and Sanders is still saying the same things.

“We're very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba,” the senator told Cooper, “but you know, it's unfair to simply say everything is bad. You know?”

Sanders added, “When Fidel Castro came into office, you know what he did? He had a massive literacy program. Is that a bad thing? Even though Fidel Castro did it?”
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Yet some on here still think Sanders is a cuddly/softie 'social democrat'. The description sounds so...comforting.
 
Ancalagon said:
Also, the USA doesn't really have a welfare state. I mean, it has some social programs, but not nearly as many as Europe does. Completely different model. What people want in the states is not the welfare state but economic opportunity.
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No, I literally said that the function of the government is to protect basic rights. So an immigrant can still purchase property.,


Ancalagon said:
Also, the USA doesn't really have a welfare state. I mean, it has some social programs, but not nearly as many as Europe does. Completely different model. What people want in the states is not the welfare state but economic opportunity.
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It is a complete cradle-to-grave welfare state:
US spending.png

55343-Mandatory.png


55344-Discretionary.png
 
Ancalagon said:
I've never understood why liberals think that illegal immigration is okay
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I mean, no that's a strawman. Nobody believes "illegal immigration is okay". What liberals tend to believe is that illegal immigration is a fact of life, especially in the US where the border with Mexico is traditionally very porous, and there are two ways of handling it. One extreme - the current status quo - is to criminalize the event, build up border walls, spend billions of dollars hunting down illegals, separating families, using ICE to terrorize communities, and so on.

The liberal view is that these policies are counterproductive, similar to the drug war. It wastes money, disregards human rights, and treats a humanitarian problem as a criminal one. There are better ways of managing the problem of illegal immigration.
 
cerebus said:
I mean, no that's a strawman. Nobody believes "illegal immigration is okay". What liberals tend to believe is that illegal immigration is a fact of life, especially in the US where the border with Mexico is traditionally very porous, and there are two ways of handling it. One extreme - the current status quo - is to criminalize the event, build up border walls, spend billions of dollars hunting down illegals, separating families, using ICE to terrorize communities, and so on.

The liberal view is that these policies are counterproductive, similar to the drug war. It wastes money, disregards human rights, and treats a humanitarian problem as a criminal one. There are better ways of managing the problem of illegal immigration.
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And the better ways are....
 
Ancalagon said:
Republicans are anti-abortion, because the people who are born to citizens of the country have a higher chance of being Republican.
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What the hell is this psychobabble? Get a grip. Republicans are anti-abortion because they are ideologues, and liberals are pro-choice because in their own way they are also ideologues. It has nothing to do with demographic control.
 
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