US Election 2020

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Ancalagon

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cerebus said:
I mean, no that's a strawman. Nobody believes "illegal immigration is okay". What liberals tend to believe is that illegal immigration is a fact of life, especially in the US where the border with Mexico is traditionally very porous, and there are two ways of handling it. One extreme - the current status quo - is to criminalize the event, build up border walls, spend billions of dollars hunting down illegals, separating families, using ICE to terrorize communities, and so on.

The liberal view is that these policies are counterproductive, similar to the drug war. It wastes money, disregards human rights, and treats a humanitarian problem as a criminal one. There are better ways of managing the problem of illegal immigration.
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But if you don't criminalise it, how do you enforce it?

A lot of liberals do not want illegal immigrants to be deported. So, this is to say that if I book a two week holiday to America, I can immediately live there and work.

Because if the government then deports me, they are "violating my human rights".

No. Yes current conditions are inhumane, but illegal immigrants should be deported.
 
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Ancalagon

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cerebus said:
What the hell is this psychobabble? Get a grip. Republicans are anti-abortion because they are ideologues, and liberals are pro-choice because in their own way they are also ideologues. It has nothing to do with demographic control.
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Read the rest of my post with COMPREHENSION.
 
Pegasus

Pegasus

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Ancalagon said:
But if you don't criminalise it, how do you enforce it?

A lot of liberals do not want illegal immigrants to be deported. So, this is to say that if I book a two week holiday to America, I can immediately live there and work.

Because if the government then deports me, they are "violating my human rights".

No. Yes current conditions are inhumane, but illegal immigrants should be deported.
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I'm hoping to pick up some tips.

If Bernie wins I am on the next plane to the USA for my free stuff.
 
cerebus

cerebus

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Ancalagon said:
But if you don't criminalise it, how do you enforce it?
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The same way it was always enforced before the time of GW Bush - as a civil offense, but not a criminal one.

apnews.com

AP Explains: The law criminalizing improper border crossings

CHICAGO (AP) — A federal law that President Donald Trump used in justifying the separation of migrant parents and children at the border last year is creating waves on the 2020 campaign trail, with some Democrats vowing to do away with it completely...
apnews.com apnews.com

The law generated international headlines last year when Trump rolled out his “zero tolerance policy,” vowing to prosecute first time offenders with six months in prison. Immigrant parents arriving at the border with their children were hauled into court and prosecuted for illegal entry, and children were separated from them.

Thousands of children were separated from their parents before Trump backtracked and signed an executive order stopping the separations amid widespread outrage over the practice. Shortly after, a judge also ruled that families could only be split in limited circumstances.

Under Trump, the total number of immigration-related criminal prosecutions reached around 100,000 in 2018, which includes Section 1325 cases.
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In my opinion that is an extreme overreaction. On top of that institutions like ICE are rife with abuse:

Slave Labor Widespread at ICE Detention Centers, Lawyers Say

A growing body of legal experts says paying people in detention centers $1 per day to work violates minimum wage laws and the Constitution.
www.pogo.org www.pogo.org

And people who were born in the USA from illegal parents, often grew up in the US and have no other real identity, should not also be treated as illegal immigrants.

Read the rest of my post with COMPREHENSION.
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I did. It's silly.
 
AlmightyBender

AlmightyBender

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AlmightyBender

AlmightyBender

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Ancalagon said:
I've never understood why liberals think that illegal immigration is okay.

If you want to immigrate to the USA, fill out the forms and pay your fees like the rest of the people.

I just don't get it. The country has immigration laws for a reason - follow them! The laws are there to balance the interests of immigrants and citizens. Just legally immigrate.

If you allow mass unchecked immigration to any part of the world, those parts will soon be under such strain that their public utilities will virtually collapse over night. This is not a good idea!
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@ all the liberals who lurk here... please like my post if you think illegal immigration is NOT ok
 
AlmightyBender

AlmightyBender

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Ancalagon said:
But if you don't criminalise it, how do you enforce it?

A lot of liberals do not want illegal immigrants to be deported. So, this is to say that if I book a two week holiday to America, I can immediately live there and work.

Because if the government then deports me, they are "violating my human rights".

No. Yes current conditions are inhumane, but illegal immigrants should be deported.
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Nope. Remember how many deportations Obama did?

I think you are oversimplifying the liberal position on this. What they are saying is that an illegal immigrant that has lived in the country for 30 years and knows no other life and who's entire family are now US citizens is a very different situation to an illegal immigrant that jumped the border 5 minutes ago. For the former, deportation will negatively affect your economy and social structure. For the later... ship them right back.

Ancalagon said:
Read the rest of my post with COMPREHENSION.
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Comprehension is a two way street. Try to ask liberals what they actually think instead of being told what they think by Fox news.
 
Pegasus

Pegasus

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cerebus said:
The same way it was always enforced before the time of GW Bush - as a civil offense, but not a criminal one.

apnews.com

AP Explains: The law criminalizing improper border crossings

CHICAGO (AP) — A federal law that President Donald Trump used in justifying the separation of migrant parents and children at the border last year is creating waves on the 2020 campaign trail, with some Democrats vowing to do away with it completely...
apnews.com apnews.com



In my opinion that is an extreme overreaction. On top of that institutions like ICE are rife with abuse:

Slave Labor Widespread at ICE Detention Centers, Lawyers Say

A growing body of legal experts says paying people in detention centers $1 per day to work violates minimum wage laws and the Constitution.
www.pogo.org www.pogo.org

And people who were born in the USA from illegal parents, often grew up in the US and have no other real identity, should not also be treated as illegal immigrants.



I did. It's silly.
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www.salon.com

Bill Clinton's shameful legacy on immigration: "Terrible" laws he signed "rip apart" families and authorize unjust detention, Human Rights Watch says

Rights group says 1996 laws created a system of mass detention and abuse for refugees and migrants
www.salon.com www.salon.com

 
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SoldierMan

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Okty said:
Yeah, Bernie lost my respect. Why not stick too praising the Nordic models and saying you want to copy their strategies rather?
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Because that is not the nature of this beast.... :rolleyes: When are the stupid socialist wannabes gonna realise that Bernie is a communist/socialist.

And in case you don't know what that means, or more likely believe that Bernie is different and is a nice cuddly bear, use the frikken dictionary. You are getting exactly what he says he is and what he says he likes.

You are voting/supporting for a socialist - get that through your frikken head!
 
Temujin

Temujin

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BBSA said:
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InB4
Luke_Crywalker.jpg
 
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quovadis

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Ancalagon said:
But if you don't criminalise it, how do you enforce it?
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There's a lot of exaggeration bordering on serious propaganda wrt to illegal aliens. All countries have illegal aliens and I would argue that the US's is probably far less than most. The majority of illegal immigration is people overstaying their visas in the first place not crossing the borders and climbing over walls. And yes, it's heavily enforced. If you've ever been through any immigration points into the US you will know this - I sometimes feel like an illegal just with the officer's questioning etc.
 
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