US Election 2020

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cerebus said:
Finally, and most importantly, Sanders is not an authoritarian. Far from it: He is a passionate small-d democrat. This fact has been distorted by conservatives, who believe that Sanders’s socialist economics along with his noninterventionist foreign policy — which has in the past brought him uncomfortably close to communist governments overseas — add up to some form of left-wing revolutionary program
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Sadly, it doesn't work like that.

The more centrally planned your economy becomes, the more coercive it will become, regardless of how humane your initial intentions are.
 
cerebus said:
And please explain how the path leads from Norway to Venezuela.
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I give you Hayek.

TheRoadToSerfdom.png


If you look at the ANC, they are following every single step.

Venezuela did the same thing.


cerebus said:
It does exist
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It doesn't.
Democracy in the true sense of the word is incompatible with socialism.

Majoritarian socialism exists (which is what the ANC is doing).
Democracy means more than just majority rule, it means the protection of individual rights. Which is fundamentally incompatible with collective rights that socialism is predicated on.

Countries like Sweden and Ausfailia protect individual rights far more than they do collective rights.
 
cerebus said:
And please explain how the path leads from Norway to Venezuela.
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Norway only works for now cos it got lucky with its oil... it will run out one day, as it always does
Interestingly, the same who want free everything, also want oil gone... meaning it'll end sooner if they get their way and there will be nothing left to keep norway working :ROFL:
 
konfab said:
I give you Hayek.

TheRoadToSerfdom.png


If you look at the ANC, they are following every single step.

Venezuela did the same thing.



It doesn't.
Democracy in the true sense of the word is incompatible with socialism.

Majoritarian socialism exists (which is what the ANC is doing).
Democracy means more than just majority rule, it means the protection of individual rights. Which is fundamentally incompatible with collective rights that socialism is predicated on.

Countries like Sweden and Ausfailia protect individual rights far more than they do collective rights.
Click to expand...
And the American Constitution, case law and common law doesn't protect individual rights?

C'mon maaaan, argue the reality instead of the strawman for once
 
konfab said:
I give you Hayek.

TheRoadToSerfdom.png


If you look at the ANC, they are following every single step.

Venezuela did the same thing.



It doesn't.
Democracy in the true sense of the word is incompatible with socialism.

Majoritarian socialism exists (which is what the ANC is doing).
Democracy means more than just majority rule, it means the protection of individual rights. Which is fundamentally incompatible with collective rights that socialism is predicated on.

Countries like Sweden and Ausfailia protect individual rights far more than they do collective rights.
Click to expand...

Strange how many of those points are starkly more reminiscent of the Republicans acquiescence to Trump's corruption and authoritarian aspirations.

Slide 7 and 8 - Very pertinent. Just look at the recent article on The Atlantic about the Billion Dollar disinformation game to elect a President.
Slide 10 - Yip. Republicans wanted Trump to get their Supreme Court picks in and there Tax laws. Now they have a beast that is beyond their control.
Slide 11, yeah that as well. Criticise Trump, you have TDS. He is the Dear Leader and is above and beyond any criticism.

All you have done here is show that the USA is far closer on the trajectory to serfdom than Norway or Sweden could ever be.

Social Welfare states have consistently out performed the traditional market economies. Norway, Sweden, Denmark etc

We all know Hayek was off the mark with his predictions on the descent to Totalitarianism of European countries in the 20th Century. He missed the boat by miles with Sweden.
 
buka001 said:
Strange how many of those points are starkly more reminiscent of the Republicans acquiescence to Trump's corruption and authoritarian aspirations.

Slide 7 and 8 - Very pertinent. Just look at the recent article on The Atlantic about the Billion Dollar disinformation game to elect a President.
Slide 10 - Yip. Republicans wanted Trump to get their Supreme Court picks in and there Tax laws. Now they have a beast that is beyond their control.
Slide 11, yeah that as well. Criticise Trump, you have TDS. He is the Dear Leader and is above and beyond any criticism.

All you have done here is show that the USA is far closer on the trajectory to serfdom than Norway or Sweden could ever be.

Social Welfare states have consistently out performed the traditional market economies. Norway, Sweden, Denmark etc

We all know Hayek was off the mark with his predictions on the descent to Totalitarianism of European countries in the 20th Century. He missed the boat by miles with Sweden.
Click to expand...
You know, minus the central planning and the promise of utopia, and the use of force.


Here is something for you. Very few people actually have confidence in their governments.
large_giw2P7fkucdbVRttUugbUtSE3aYR-BnXth9cKhlYOn8.png




buka001 said:
We all know Hayek was off the mark with his predictions on the descent to Totalitarianism of European countries in the 20th Century. He missed the boat by miles with Sweden.
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Really?
It laid the foundations for the Spanish Civil war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War

And the UK was well on the way there economically until Thatcher came along.

And interestingly, if you have a look at Sweden, all the government did was nationalise what the Church had already setup.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_in_Sweden
 
Sanders won NH with the lowest percentage total in history. I note the progressive wing(Sanders + Warren) only got 35 percent of the vote...

A Drawn-Out Nomination Fight Is More Likely Than Ever

Bernie Sanders’s unexpectedly narrow victory in New Hampshire underscored the splintering of the Democratic presidential field that was evident in last week’s murky Iowa caucus—and left two of his opponents facing grim questions about their future viability.


Just as in Iowa, the results illuminated the inability of any of the contenders to build a coalition broad enough to span the party or establish much separation from their rivals. The roughly 26 percent share of the total vote that Sanders captured represented much less than half of his winning 60 percent just four years ago. And similar to former South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg’s performance in Iowa, Sanders won the smallest share of voters ever garnered by a Democratic winner of the New Hampshire primary. (The previous low was nearly 29 percent for Jimmy Carter in 1976.)

The New Hampshire results confirmed Sanders and Buttigieg as the field’s top-tier contenders and elevated Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, who surged from a fifth-place finish in Iowa to a strong third here after a widely praised debate performance on Friday night. But the outcome may end up diminishing two of the field’s previous leaders more than it boosts the candidates who came out on top.
Click to expand...
 
konfab said:
You know, minus the central planning and the promise of utopia, and the use of force.


Here is something for you. Very few people actually have confidence in their governments.
large_giw2P7fkucdbVRttUugbUtSE3aYR-BnXth9cKhlYOn8.png





Really?
It laid the foundations for the Spanish Civil war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War

And the UK was well on the way there economically until Thatcher came along.

And interestingly, if you have a look at Sweden, all the government did was nationalise what the Church had already setup.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_in_Sweden
Click to expand...
Trump promises a Utopia as well. Trump has laid the foundations for an Authoritarian to take a good foothold in the USA.

Just today he is criticising a Judge on a case that is still 9 days away from conclusion. The whole Roger Stone affair. All little footsteps in the same direction Hayek foretold.

Hayek wrote the Road To Serfdom after the Spanish Civil War.

He got it plain wrong with Sweden.

I know a lot of people took what he said as gospel and ignored that he actually rejected unqualified laissez-faire capitalism, and they also tend to ignore the fact that he reserved a useful, limited economic role for government.
 
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